Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

WOW!, just WOW!

I think Sir Ron could work at Federal as their boss, but would likely be slowed down by their protocols!

Nice knowing that my Ruger No.1H could do all that! And he has an investment piece in her.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Sir Ron,
3.275” is the COL of my flat nosed 485’s cast. I feel ashamed that I did not share that earlier but nonetheless, your ceaseless astute experimentation has arrived at the solution quickly!
Best regards,
F01

Sir Dennis and Sir Bob,

You are too kind. Enaa baasee".

It is well known that the FNs usually feed better at shorter COL.
Don't tell Hammerella she defies the rules.
Apparently I forgot to see the forest through the long-COL mistletoe growing on the trees.
I finally got with the program.

I will get the Hornady 500-gr factory load MVs (DGS/DGX) with a Garmin XERO soon as the
weather and social obligation intersections on the Venn Diagram of life leave a clearing for the rifle range.
Will see how Mahohbesta and Hammerella compare to the Ruger No. 1 as control.

BTW, those 500-gr Hornady ogived-FN COLs on a random sample of one each,
pulled from the Hornady factory ammo boxes:

500-gr DGX: 3.274"

500-gr DGS: 3.272"

If magazine repeater function is the plan with FN in a 3.4" box, do like Sir Dennis: 3.275" COL

Hammer Bullets delivered 5 days after my latest order.
I always try to add a box of something different when stocking up on the 404-gr Shock Hammer.
This time I added the .357-Cal. 150-grain "Jack Hammer" for combat fishing revolver duty.

Some Hammer Bullets bullet monikers:
Shock Hammer
Jack Hammer
Claw Hammer
Dead Blow Hammer
Hammer Hunter
Hammer HHT (plastic-tipped) aka "Tipped Hammer"
Absolute Hammer
Power Hammer
Lever Hammer
Heavy Hammer Hunter
Hammer BlackOut
Shock Hammer Bushmaster
Lever Shock Hammer
Target Hammer
Pittman Hammer
And the mysterious .224 Cal 39gr "Trident" which is password protected in the catalog: https://hammerbullets.com/shop/

Federal only has the Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer for a similar moniker, hard to beat in a .458 WinMag.
2200 fps from a 24" barrel at 60,000 psi or less, and COL of exactly 3.275".

Suggestions offered to increase the length of the Hammer Bullets listings:
Ball Peen Hammer
Tack Hammer
Club Hammer
Rip Hammer
Thor Hammer
Thunder Hammer
Lightning Bolt Hammer
Croquet Mallet
etc.

Great research and custom fitting Sir Ron, i didn't remember having any trouble with the little FN 458 with TBSS, my 'Smith did do his magic on the magnum action Model 70 458, it will even feed solids loaded backwards, me with too much time on my hands lamenting the possible passing of all flat nosed solid bullets, a 500gr Woodleigh solid loaded backward would ply one hell of a wallop.

Got a bump on a nice 1956 African, 11K, a bit too high, the right one will come along, and hopefully soon.

Sheesh ! A bidding war !
I was editing my "sack of hammers" list above as you were posting , Sir Jerry.
Pretty silly, I know.
Couldn't help myself.
Just giddy about how nice Mahohbesta and Hammerella are.
Mahohbesta for standard COL FN shooting.
and Hammerella for long COL FN shooting.
Both can handle .458 WM+ loads one way or another.
A heartfelt thanks for letting me adopt them.

LOL, no bidding war on the 11K rig, it's in a safe in NW Montana, you're most welcome Sir, they're going to make you two damn fine rifles, wait till you start shooting them.

Oh well, that would be the one owned by the "Impossibles Family" dreaming the money ?
Dreaming the African is more fun.

From Sir Jerry,
A perfect period-correct scope for an African:





Weaver K3, 3x20mm, in 1" Talley QD lever rings that fit the Weaver style cross-slot/Picatinny base.
Sir Jerry plans to cut and file and polish the Leupold Mark4 bases into looking like Weaver bases.
Note QD levers on nautical port side of rifle, not on ejection port side.
When on left side of rifle the tips of the levers should point below the axis of the bore,
so recoil keeps them tight. Set them and forget them.
Or keep levers parallel to bore for neutral recoil effect.
But it is fussy to keep perfectly parallel to bore.

The 404gr .458 Shock Hammer needs no proof:



Yes, Hammer Bullets do make a Jack Hammer too:





Now to check on Sir Larry's load data for this combat fishing bullet ...
Useful if you have to let go of your .458 WinMag rifle while landing a big one.

This is yet a different rifle from the one the old guys kids are dusting up about, funny, same state, almost like mega O&G money drifted west from NODAK or something ; ]

Put in 4+ hours this morning on the chainsaw, it's supposed to rain tomorrow, had enough of that damn saw this week anyway, if it rains i'll cut those bases and get em slicked up, they'll look just like the old steel Warn weaver type bases except cut for the pic rings, that old Weaver 3X took a pounding on my 358 Norma mag hurling 250gr npt's at 2809 fps, it'll be a perfect glass for lining up Cape Buff, Ele and maybe Lion, plus any plains game this side of 225 yards.

Those Hammer pistol bullets are king, i fire the 137's in my Nighthawk 9mm at 1200 fps, had Wife retrieve some old freezer burnt 2lb pound chunks of wild boar sausage frozen rock solid, that bullet punched clean through several different packages, i have no concerns using that load for woods carry anywhere in NA/Alaska.

I was short on DGX loads, only 3 shots per rifle for chrono.
Fouled first with 2 shots of DGS, then chronographed 5 shots with DGS in each of the 3 rifles, then 3 shots of the DGX to finish up.
Thirty shots, 10 shots each rifle.

Iron sights will wait for final loads.
Different strokes for different folks.
Different sights for different loads.
Some excitement was had from first two shots at 50 yards with
Mahohbesta's express rear leaf and the DGS bullet.

Have to say Hammerella was notably pleasant, a maiden's caress.
I shot Daisy first, then Hammerella, and Mahohbesta last.
Ten shots each.
Daisy was scoped and weighed more than iron-sighted Hammerella,
yet Hammerella was gentler.
By the time I got to lightest Mahohbesta, I must have been numb. No pain.

The front sight hoods remained tight on both Hammerella and Mahohbesta.
If I change the front sight beads I will have to remove them.
About 30-thou lower on Mahohbesta, about 30-thou higher on Hammerella,
for the Hornady 500-gr factory loads.

Did I mention that all three rifles shot slower with first fouling shots from clean barrels previously wiped with BreakFree CLP,
then dry-patched?

I have more DGS ammo and will try fouling Hammerella's barrel with more than just two shots.
She might need the extra fouling in the JES 5-groove rifling.
Will try 20 shots and see if she gets up to speed after about 7 shots.
She shot the 3 shots of DGX faster after 7 shots of DGS.

Corn planting time anyway RIP. you have enough trench for sweet corn!
F01

You're Rippin' it up now Sir Ron, no pun intended, i failed to mention i lowered the rear sight leaf on the FN Browning for handling and bagging up for delivery, there is a little screw with a lever on the rear sight that moves up and down, it's best to loosen the screw with the rear sight folded down, that will get you the adjustment you need with any load you end up with, iirc i fired around a ragged hole group with it's barrel sights at 50 yards with 500gr TBSS.

The big Winchester has a small sliding leaf in it's rear sight too, it has a countersunk screw for adjusting as well, it's zeroed with 500gr TBSS's at 2315 fps, but, as is all rifles with irons or even scopes mounted POI's are most often always different from shooter to shooter, i was thoroughly convinced my Glock 21 shot to the left, old special services bud noticed i had the rear sight drove over to the right, he asked, then did a 20 yard snuff can sized mag dump straight right of dead bullseye, he then centered the rear sight and showed me how to grip and aim a 2x4 stick of lumber?

Agreed again Sir, that big Winchester 70 rocks and rolls recoil like the ride of a fine Cadillac, a smooth ride throughout complete recoil cycle, when you get to a mounted rifle scope and 404gr Hammers at 2500+ fps you'll be amazed.

and don't forget to pickup plenty of black pepper and butta! ; ]

Thanks for sharing that powder burning session results.
The recovered metal jacketed solid appears to have held up pretty well on the furrow digging task.
Seems as though you will have the necessary rear sight adjustment to get the impact elevated.
The velocities were not shabby for across the counter factory loads.

Makes sense on the iron sights with 500-grainers.

Sir Jerry set Mahohbesta's express sight leaf a foot low for Hornady factory 500-grainer.
That will be easy to correct, but if Bo Peep is max-ed out it is still 6" low for that load.
A lower front sight would be easier to make both sights work.

Hammerella shooting 4-1/2" high would make sense at 50 yards.
Slow 500-grainer will go higher at such close range due to longer barrel time and rise of barrel in recoil.
Like shooting big bore handgun at close range.
Duplicating his +2300 fps load with 500-gr TBSS would get her zeroed.

Very well understood, on the iron sights.

Now for the "no record" fouling shot velocities. That is what I had to say to make the words fit on "Painted" jpeg image above.
If I had more room I would have said "DGS fouling shot velocities, see below":

Daisy the Ruger No. 1 factory barrel, 24.0" L, 1:14" T, 8-groove:
Fouling DGS
1) 2129.9 fps
2) 2137.3 fps
Then for record:
3) 2139.9
4) 2145.3
5) 2137.6
6) 2137.3
7) 2147.2
DGS Avg = 2141.46 fps
DGX Avg of 3 more shots: 2139.4 fps

Mahohbesta the Browning FN Safari factory barrel, 24.2" L, 1:14" T, 6-groove:
Fouling DGS:
1) 2123.9 fps
2) 2122.4 fps
Then for the record:
3) 2139.5
4) 2133.1
5) 2136.3
6) 2137.2
7) 2140.6
DGS Avg = 2137.34 fps
DGX Avg of 3 more shots: 2150.2 fps

Hammerella the Winchester M70 Classic Custom/JES Re-bore, 23.8" L, 1:14" T, 5-groove:
Fouling DGS:
1) 2088.9 fps
2) 2098.6 fps
Then for the record:
3) 2100.7
4) 2109.0
5) 2103.2
6) 2104.5
7) 2093.1
DGS Avg = 2102.1 fps
DGX Avg of 3 more shots: 2133.9

We always knew that a barrel needs to be fouled to shoot its best accuracy and up to speed.
Daisy and Mahohbesta seemed to get fouled enough after 2 shots.
Hammerella seems to require at least 7 shots to get adequate fouling.
Does 5-groove rifling (JES) foul less than the 6-groove (FN) and 8-groove (Ruger) rifling ?

From these down and dirty muzzle shots (with an iPhone camera of questionable focus) it appears to be so,
10 shots total fouling in each (7 DGS and 3 DGX), in order from most fouled (Ruger)
to medium fouled (FN)
to least fouled (JES)

RUGER:




FN:




JES:




A learning experience.

I will allow Hammerella at least 10 fouling shots before getting her final velocity with DGS factory ammo.

An old Alaskan Guide once told me he would shoot his PH-ing rifle to zero the scope,
then he would not clean the bore all season except to shoot it one shot monthly to keep it clean and check zero,
if it had not been used in backing up a client that month.
Tape over the muzzle and bore well fouled.
Good to go.
"Oh For the Life of a Guide!"

Damn good R&D discovery work Sir Ron, i wonder if the stainless barrel has anything to do with it? plus, when you slide the rear sight leaf up to get FN zeroed with irons, beware it with fingers, it's a sharp little sucker!