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hey all was just curious what bullet you have had the most success with out of your muzzleloader?? I have a Thompson Center Omega that shoots the Hornady SST bullets very well but the terminal performance on deer has been suspect . Problem I am having is very poor blood trails to absolutely non existent blood trails. I hunt some pretty thick areas were no blood trails is a problem. The deer I have taken with the bullets have been lung shots through and through recovered in less than 100yds but if I hadnt heard them fall I may have lost them due to weak to no blood. Thanks All.

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Thus is second-hand, but my sons took 3 deer last year with my Knight using 300gr .45 Hornady XTPs, the regular ones, not mags, over 80gr (56 gr by weight) BH 209. The light load keeps the bullets within the velocity window for good perfomance. All three were pass-throughs with big exit holes, including one on a 200+ pounder. Blood trails were short, the best kind.


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Hollow point copper-clad, all copper or all lead bullets should help you in the blood trail department.

My favorite is all lead, made by prbullet.com..... Precision Polymer Tips. Other favorites are Barnes TEZ and Expanders. An excellent all-copper are the Knight Bloodline bullets, which I hear surrender the biggest blood trails.

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Some XTPs will bust-up with too much speed. That's why Hornady produces the 240 and 300 gr XTP 'Mag' bullet.

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I have a box of the Barnes all-copper 250gr bullets designed for the .454. They have a BIG holler point. If they shoot okay, that's what I'll use this year. I also have some Nosler 300gr Ballistic Tips that come in MMP .458 orange sabots. Pretty good BC for ML slugs.


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240 - 300gr XTP's over 75 - 100 gr. 777. I averaged 10 deer a year, for the past 15 or so years with these bullets. They are accurate, and put the animals down. As mentioned, they are available in standard, or with a thicker jacket, if you push them fast. Longest shot I had was 180 yards. Good blood, deer dead in 35 yards. That was a 240 over 100gr 777.

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An excellent all-copper are the Knight Bloodline bullets, which I hear surrender the biggest blood trails.



Its pretty obvious the Bloodlines are made from UNSC3600 brass.
http://www.knightrifles.com/product-category/muzzleloader-bullets/bloodline-muzzleloader-bullets/

http://www.lehighbullets.com/products.asp?cat=31

Quote
Material - UNSC36000 brass

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Here is a link to several bullets shot at smokeless speed and T7 speed into perma gel.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6450

The lowly 250gr XTP did surprisingly well although i would still recommend being careful of shot placement.

You didnt mention your powder load with the SST or which weight. Some of the older SSTs had a harder tip material and for some reason did not expand as easily with mild loads.

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Overkill I am using 100grn by volume BH209. Thanks for the advice all very much appreciated.

I wont be using the SSt's this year I am switching to something else. Anyone use the Barnes T-EZ??

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Have had real good luck with both the 250 and 290 Barnes TMZ on elk.

ETA; they both shoot real well out of my Omega.

Last edited by SLM; 06/14/15.
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Thanks SLM

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The T-EZ is a very good bullet. Usually flat based bullets are easier to get shooting good vs a boat tail bullet. You have a lot more sabot choices with a flat based bullet.

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I had my first muzzleloader experience last year. I worked up a load for my T/C Impact with a 250 gr. XTP over 95 grs. of Blackhorn 209. Using a crush rib sabot that load shoots extremely well for me. I asked here about an estimated velocity and was told it probably ran about 1,850 fps. Checking the chart that seemed to be a stretch in the performance envelope for that bullet. I was a bit concerned but thought I'd slip it in the lungs on my typical skinny little Ozark ridge running acorn munchers. Problem was the shot I got on a smallish buck put the bullet right on the shoulder. The bullet came apart inside, no exit and the buck ran about 150 yards with a very sparse blood trail. I'm moving to the "Mag" version this year.


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Yep, good choice to move into a Mag XTP, unless one doesn't mind additional ruined venison.

The 240 gr XTP Mag is all that's needed for Whitetail. The 300 grain is overkill, but helpful with solid bone impacts.

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I used Barnes for years, till I tried a box of Bloodlines. Accuracy was about the same, but can't see how one could get better performance on game than what I saw using them.

I use the 275 gr and dad's been using the 250s.

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Ive shot a few deer with the Harvester 280 gr. hard cast bullets out of my Omega .50 cal. and have got two big holes and heavy short blood trails every time.I wouldnt hesitate to use them at any angle on deer.

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I'm moving to the "Mag" version this year.


Dont assume the 240gr XTP MAG will shoot like the 250gr XTP. The mag has a much thicker jacket and would not shoot nearly as well for me in several rifles.

If you are shooting longer ranges into the boiler room i have some serious doubts you will even get good expansion...That bullet is tough.




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Actually I was going to work with the 250 gr. MAG version. My shots are in the timber and usually from about 40 - 70 yards, though the buck above was closer to 90 - 100 yards. And no assumptions about the loads accuracy until I put the work in.


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Scotts,

I have only killed five with the Barnes T-EZ bullets. That said though, I am extremely impressed with them. The worst result was one that only produced a blood trail for 3 jumps. That deer had red soup for lungs but for a fist size chunk of one lung. The heart was shredded. The bullet passed through the base of each scapula. The deer made it about fifty yards. How it did that I have no idea, and it did not go down at impact. There was a golf ball size hole all the way through, I could literally see the opposite shoulder. The four I shot last fall were all shoulder shots and all four dropped into their shadow and never moved again.

The 250 grain T-EZ was a little hard on the meat. Not so bad as a lot of rifle bullets to be sure, but worse than what I am used to seeing out of TSX/TTSX bullets out of 3000+ FPS rifles. I used 66 grains by weight of BH-209 which gave me stellar accuracy and about 1700 FPS. Be sure to try a number of different sabots with the T-EZ. The Barnes sabots were too tight a fit for my guns, and I found some others that were even worse. Also, be sure to get a tip for the ram rod that accommodates the plastic tip on the T-EZ. I have shot them with jammed back tips and it didn't effect accuracy or killing efficiency, but I'd prefer it not do that.

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It would be the 275 gr. ballistic extreme for me over 110 grs. by volume of BH209 in a Knight Ultra-Lite and Mountaineer. The 250 TEZ is also a very good choice.

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If you want a good percentage of DRT on broadside shots try the 200 gr. shockwave.

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Originally Posted by MOGC
Actually I was going to work with the 250 gr. MAG version. My shots are in the timber and usually from about 40 - 70 yards, though the buck above was closer to 90 - 100 yards. And no assumptions about the loads accuracy until I put the work in.


Please show me a link to the 250gr XTP MAG. Never seen one and its not listed on Hornady's website.

Seriously, there is a reason even Savage owners usually avoid this bullet. You would be better off with the regular 300gr XTP if you want to shoot a cheaper bullet and get two holes.

Wideners still has some Nosler Partitions cheap if you want a Grade A bullet for a economy price. Thats half of suggested MSRP.

www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=529

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By golly you're right - there is no 250 gr. XTP MAG. Guess I'll either move to the 240 or more likely move up to the 300 gr. XTP standard or MAG bullet.


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Originally Posted by MOGC
Actually I was going to work with the 250 gr. MAG version. My shots are in the timber and usually from about 40 - 70 yards, though the buck above was closer to 90 - 100 yards. And no assumptions about the loads accuracy until I put the work in.


No such bullet exists as a 250gr Mag XTP.

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195 gr barnes mz expanders in my .45
got a box of 200 gr sst also to play with
and have access to some to some knight 175gr barnes also

im jumping off the bh209 bandwagon
don't like unpredictable hang fires
my gun don't like the stuff
my Kodiak pro mag in .45 is gonna get a run with 7772f and pryodex select rifle grade later on this summer/early fall and see how it does
shot 7772f in my omega with the same breech plug design as the Kodiak with win 209 primers and cleaned with butches black powder bore shine
(crud ring issues easy taken care of)
never had an issue with that combo going boom ever
and that is what I want again
no issues..........................

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Concerning Blackhorn, you must keep the breechplug flash channel clear and also the flash hole, both located on your breechplug. I clear my channel after every four shots, using a hand drill bit, turning it easily in the channel, while the gun is upright. The fouling generally just falls out and I'm ready for another load.

What's good for the flash hole (which only needs to be checked every 10 shots or-so) is a closed safety pin. Open the safety pin, straighten out the pointed end as best as you can. It's long enough to fit thru my Knight and T/C ML breechplugs.

Some breechplugs never need inspecting / cleaning..... Some do. I am also considering abandoning Blackhorn 209. Thinking about trying Pyrodex Select next. Have not used Pyrodex since the early-mid 1990s. I will never return to Crud Ring City/ frozen breechplug 777 again, nor moisture-grabbing American Pioneer.

Real Black has always been in my gun cabinet and I may someday return to using it in my inlines.

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After shooting numerous bottles of Blackhorn, ive never seen the flash hole clog. It actually grows slightly with every shot.

Flash channel, yes....Flash hole...no

The Omega plug and Kodiak plug are more different than they appear. The Omega plug with the heavily concaved powder side is excellent with BLackhorn. As far as i know, they will not interchange.

Ron on Huntingnet and Modern Muzzleloader forums can modify the old style CVA breach plug for excellent reliability. He even installs a vent liner so your plug will basically never wear out. Just replace the vent liner when the flash hole has grown too much.

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In my TC Omega .50 cal, I shoot 250 gr. Thor bullets, ahead of 83 gr. (by weight) of Blackhorn 209 powder, driven with Federal 209A primers. Penetration is never an issue, and accuracy is superb.


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I've been running 250 grain XTP's (.452) in my MLII. They haven't made many tracks, but they do tend to turn inside out and lose the core inside of 50 yards. I suspect that it will cost me an animal someday if I keep using them. I picked up a couple of boxes of 300 grain .458's that are designed for the 45-70. I need to remember to order some sabots cause no one carries them.


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Bullets designed for revolver velocities can't be expected to hold together when pushed a lot faster. These days it's probably wiser to use bullets designed specifically for MLs or rifle bullets like the ones you bought. I've got some .458 sabots I acquired by buying Nosler BT ML bullets and removing the bullets for use in my .45/70. I'm going to try the sabots with Laser cast 350gr bullets in my Knight.

BTW, SPS has the Noslers on sale for $8.45 per 15. They're overruns, not blems. I bought a bunch.

If you can't get the orange .458 sabots, the Harvester Crush Ribs may work okay.

Last edited by Pappy348; 06/23/15.

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Wideners has Nosler 300gr Partitions for around half the normal price. It may be pistol bullet but it will hold together better than the majority of 300gr HP 45/70 bullets.

They never shot great for me in my Savage though unless i used Blackhorn. Then they shot fine.

$24/50
https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=529

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Good site. Thanks for the tip.


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butches black powder bore shine works great on the 777 crud ring
patch a bore brush with it
push it thru from the breech
reverse the patch repeat
then repeat process with another fresh wet patch pass
then dry patch the bore x2
cleans the breech plug
dissolves the residue quick
drill bit out the channel crud
pick out the flash hole with a paper clip
pipe cleaner and q tip it dry

I was extremely anal when I used bh 209
cleaning breech plug
drilled it out to .033-.035
stuff just would not go boom at times
was even considering sending away breech plug to get a recessed savage vent liner installed in it per advice from on here

im going back to 7772f and also try pryodex select rifle grade
gotta have confidence again that the rifle will go boom
not chik-boom
not chik-kaboom
I actually think a lot of the hangfires was due to cold weather in the teens and 20,s
but I also experienced misfires in warm weather

the breech plug on the Kodiak and optima (I said omega yesterday big difference, my bag)are pellet plugs with a flat face and more than likely having a recessed savage vent liner installed in a Kodiak /optima breech plug would solve the hangfire problem but I just don't want to fugg with it anymore
I lost confidence in it
and confidence is very important
I was weighing charges of bh209
cleaning meticously
jumped on the 209 band wagon from day1 with the Kodiak
was shooting fed209m primers with it also to try and cure the hangfire issue
still got hang fires even a few when just the primer went went pop and not ignite the bh209 at all

it is the breech plug design mostly and I think cold weather has a effect on it also

bh209 is good powder for guns it works in
but it just aint for me anymore

just boom is what I need to get back too

fords and chevys
blondes and brunettes

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One of the best bullets I've used is the Speer Deep Curl. They fly great and perform very well. Unfortunately they seem to be very hard to find these days, though Speer is still making them. They come and go on websites, but you gotta get em quick if/when they do.

Based on the bullet testing I've done, my goto is the .429/240gr. Lots of folks like the 300gr also, if you prefer a heavier bullet.


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DeepCurl is a great bullet if you can find them. Im not a huge fan of the .452 250gr unless you keep the loads on the low side. The 300gr DeepCurl and the old soft point are both plenty tough for ML speeds.

Occasionally the Speer #4485 soft point shows up when all the others are sold out. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/55...-300-grain-jacketed-soft-point-box-of-50

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Originally Posted by Overkill45
DeepCurl is a great bullet if you can find them. Im not a huge fan of the .452 250gr unless you keep the loads on the low side. The 300gr DeepCurl and the old soft point are both plenty tough for ML speeds.

Occasionally the Speer #4485 soft point shows up when all the others are sold out. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/55...-300-grain-jacketed-soft-point-box-of-50


I agree with you on the .452/250. They failed miserably in my testing. My personal belief is it must be the design - that one has a super deep hollow point and they completely exploded upon impact in my bullet trap. The 240's on the other hand, turned damn near inside out and retained almost all their weight. Hopefully they will become more available again at some point. The 300gr has the same hollow point design as the 240, but I have not tested them.

Another speer that is good... the 260gr jacketed hollow point. They did well in testing, and I've shot alot of deer with them with great performance. These are the bullets Knight sells packaged up with a sabot. Speer #4481 smile



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Cabelas.com has the all-copper Barnes XPB's on sale for 13.99 for 20. I went to the store and they were priced 16.99. But at the cashier, they rang-up at 13.99. I bought a box of 45-cal 250 grain and a box of 44-cal 225 grain.

(Link) Cabelas Barnes XPB's

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Yeah, I'm aware that I probably shouldn't be running the XTP's much over 1600; I'm actually surprised that they hold up as well as they do. MMP sells the orange sabots online, I just need to get them ordered.


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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Hollow point copper-clad, all copper or all lead bullets should help you in the blood trail department.

My favorite is all lead, made by prbullet.com..... Precision Polymer Tips. Other favorites are Barnes TEZ and Expanders. An excellent all-copper are the Knight Bloodline bullets, which I hear surrender the biggest blood trails.


Did you ever find a link to these mythical all-copper Bloodlines?

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they are a mix of brass and lead T7. Lehigh i believe now uses all brass in their bullets.

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If your T/C Omega will shoot them, the .50 200 gr T/C Shock wave is the bullet My group has used for years with nothing but stellar results. Use BH-209 starting with 100 then 105 and 110 grains. If your rifle won't group with these charge weights your bullets search continues.

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Originally Posted by Overkill45

Did you ever find a link to these mythical all-copper Bloodlines?


There you go again. What is wrong with you dude? You need to be B-slapped...... seriously. You are a real A--Hole. I'll bet even your dog hates you.

Man makes an honest mistake and a jackazz named Overkill responds. Does your family hate you too? Is there anyone you talk normal and civil too? Have you eveer thought of replying with..... "Those Bloodlines are not available in all-copper"

So stop it with all the sarcasm. How old are you..... 12? Seriously, are you retarded in any way, shape or form? You sure act like it.

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