Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Smokeless anyone?

30gr in a 45/60. Velocity right at book of 1330.

Velocity means diddle squat, pressure is what matters. Black powder load at that velocity probably running around 15000 psi, that smokeless load closing in on twice that.
Take a look at Hogdons web data , or something like the Lyman 49th,see what the pressures are actually doing.

Actually the Browning HighWall in .45-70 Owners Manual reads as:
"The Model of 1885 BPCR is a special version of the famous Single Shot rifle designed for in the BPCR metallic silhouette competitions. It is designed primarily to shoot black powder or Pyrex cartridges in one of the two calibers (although shooting smokeless loads in the .45-70 Govt. version is permissible)."

I have heard the smaller caliber was never listed per Saami specs and that is why they do not list both of the calibers for smokeless.

Ranch13, this raises the question...Which part of my shooting my Browning High Wall requires I check my homeowners insurance?

Hodgdon does not show data for the .45-60 online, but in a .45-70 30gr of IMR 4198 under a 405 cast gives 1370 fps and 17,000 cup.

FWIW

I also used filler when shooting a 500-450 #1 Express years ago, using data that Seyfried had published. 10 grains of Dacron over a fairly hefty amount of H4198. It did shoot to the original fixed sights that way, however.

What the hell is a Pyrex cartridge?

We're working on it.
Tempered glass, just like you cook in.

.......you'll never wonder about airspace again.

there is admittedly a problem with getting appropriate neck thickness defined.

Once we bring it on line it will resemble an "Everlasting" case, most likely.

Shares in this venture are for sale DIRT CHEAP, at this time,....if you want to invest in this next dynamic evolution in ballistic science,....feel free to send $$$

Yours, in the holy black,

GTC

crossfireoops - check your pms please. LB

I have been shooting an 1874 shiloh 45-70 for about 10 years and shot a C Sharps 1885 in 38-55 for couple years before selling it.
I have shot 100% smokeless, RL-7, and it works fine.
Have a 50-70 1874 shiloh on order. Shud be done very soon. I have shells loaded with RL 7.
If you follow published loads it seems to work fine.

It's not the published loads of smokeless that are the problem, Dale, it's the use of a wad or other material that holds that smokeless powder away from the bullet base, creating an air gap.

No air gap, no problems. Thus the comments about Dacron filler, Floral Foam, Cream of Wheat, etc. They fully fill that gap between powder and bullet.

I have shot many round of .45-70 with smokeless powder (not in my Shiloh, though!) and more than a couple in .38-55 without any problems, either.

Ed

Am I risking blowing my new Turnbull 45-90 up by not using filler in my cases.

I am using IMR 3031 and was told from Turnbull that I did not need filler in the cases.

I have loaded up 100 test cartridges with out fillers and you guys have me worried that I did something wrong

All of the slugs that I have cast are gas checks will that make any difference.

Any advice would be appreciated

Pard, if you re-read, the powder was under a card wad to keep it in front of the primer thus creating a dead air space between the wad and the bullet. That turned the bullet from a projectile to a bore obstruction. No wad,no problem. If you must use a wad then you must have a filler. The very least that would happen is a ringed chamber. The worst was shown in the photo.

My .45-90's are single shots, easily cleaned, so I never have loaded smokeless in them. Is yours an 1886?

You can run a test by holding a round nose down, to shift the powder to the bullet, away from the primer. That simulates what might happen in the field when you have a round chambered, with the muzzle down. Then chamber and fire it and see if there is any perceptible hangfire or lost velocity/accuracy. If it works okay, enjoy the rest of your loads.

In the .375 H&H I had to use fillers, for reduced loads of 3031, to prevent hangfires. But there was a bunch of space in that long case.

If you do have problems, then a filler (not a wad!) is indicated. Or switch to a slower burning powder, like say Varget, that more completely fills the case. Or black powder, which as stated is never loaded with air space in the case.

You'd be surprised at the killing power of a big bullet, launched at 1300-1400 fps by black powder. Different bullets are required for black, than a gas checked hard cast, however.

It is an 1886.

I talked to Turnbull several times on the phone about the loads

I talked to them about the bullets that I was going to cast and the possibility of changing from BP to Smokeless.

They informed me that there should not be a problem switching between the two. They recommended the 3130 powder and sent me some load data to get started with.

The BP should be pretty easy 45-90 (90 gr BP for max)

I would like to test the recoil with Smokeless to see how much I can take before I go to the BP.

I do know that the recoil from Smokeless and BP are different animals.

I am no stranger to BP just not in a case. I have only poured mine down the barrel. 50 cal Hawkins and 10Ga. Blunderbuss (this one gets your attention pretty quick with 80gr FF and a patched .760 ball What a HOOT. I hope that the 45-90 is as fun to shoot.

Thanks guy's for the clarification to my question

Just my 2 cents but you can split the difference and try some Blackhorn 209..Been getting good accuracy with it in my '86 45/90 of late. Velocities/recoil are close to BP but cleanup is much easier. If interested go to their web site for cartridge loads.