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Just put my daughter in for a leftover doe tag ML hunt. I have two different smokepoles to let her choose from an H&R Huntsman and an Encore Endeavor, both are .50 caliber. I'm thinking a patched round ball load will be the easiest on her out of either rifle, but I'm wondering how well they'll shoot.

Here are the rules we must play by:
Quote
Muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets, provided the minimum caliber shall be
forty (.40) for all big game except elk and moose. The minimum caliber for elk and
moose shall be fifty (.50). All muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets from forty
(.40) caliber through fifty (.50) caliber must use a bullet of at least 170 grains in weight.
All muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets greater than fifty (.50) caliber must use
bullets of at least 210 grains in weight.

a. During the muzzle-loading firearms seasons for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, and
moose only lawful muzzle-loaders and smoothbore muskets may be used by
muzzle-loading license holders.

b. During the muzzle-loading firearm seasons for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, and
moose the following additional restrictions apply:

1. Propellent/Powders: The use of pelletized powder systems and
smokeless powder are prohibited.

2. Projectiles: Sabots are prohibited. For the purposes of this regulation
cloth patches are not sabots.

3. Loading: Firearms must load from the muzzle. Firearms which can be
loaded from the breech are prohibited.

4. Sights: Any muzzle-loading rifle or smoothbore musket with any sighting
device other than open or “iron” sights is prohibited.

5. Electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or
attached to the muzzle-loading firearm.


The nice thing is if we don't connect with the ML I can turn her unfilled tag in for a regular season rifle doe tag. So if I can't find a good load for 50-60 yards we can just use ML season as scouting trips. However my daughter say's she's game to try a ML this year.

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Hornady XTP Bullets 44 Caliber (430 Diameter) 180 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point with green Harvester sabot.


Hornady XTP .45 Caliber .451" Diameter in 185 grain with black, smooth Harvester sabot

Precision Polymer Tip 50/40 blue sabot 180 grain sabot/bullet (prbullet.com)

(C.O.P.) Solid Copper Bullets 45 ACP (451 Diameter) 185 Grain Hollow Point Lead-Free.... (copy and paste this one in a Google search box)


Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 06/18/15.
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Hornady XTP Bullets 44 Caliber (430 Diameter) 180 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point with green Harvester sabot.


Hornady XTP .45 Caliber .451" Diameter in 185 grain with black, smooth Harvester sabot

Precision Polymer Tip 50/40 blue sabot 180 grain sabot/bullet (prbullet.com)

(C.O.P.) Solid Copper Bullets 45 ACP (451 Diameter) 185 Grain Hollow Point Lead-Free.... (copy and paste this one in a Google search box)



Guess you didn't take a look at the rules. I can't use anything but full bore projectiles. No Sabot allowed in Colorado, though they would make things easier if I could.

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Its too bad some people dont read or comprehend well. Parroting does not require this skill.

I hate Powerbelts but with a reduced load there is one that comes to mind for deer.

250gr Powerbelt AeroLite with 60-80gr of powder might work ok for your needs. CVA claims best results with 1800fps or less impact speeds.

There is also a 250gr all copper Thor but im not sure how well those will shoot or perform with reduced loads. You could call Terry at Thor Bullets and ask him.

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Depends on how the guns are twisted. I am betting the Encore is pretty fast. Maybe try a Hornady Conical in the Encore. I dont know that a conical would be ideal recoil wise for a young lady.

If your H&R is twisted 1-48, 60 grains of 3F behind a PRB will knock down any deer at reasonable range. If she can take more, add more.

Twist is gonna run this game.


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I think both rifles he listed are 1-28 twist but im not positive on the Huntsman. I know the early 58cals were a slower twist, if the Huntsman is a 1-48 i would try a round ball load for sure. Most of the lighter conicals like REALs should have no problem with either twist if loads are kept to moderate levels. T/Cs often have trouble with conicals if the QLA if off center.

A 50cal 1-28 can shoot round balls sometimes but loads will probably need to be 60gr or a little less.

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In either rifle I'd try both a PRB and light/mid weight Powerbelts and use whichever shoots best. PRBs with a light charge may shoot fine out of the fast twist Encore, but you'd have to try 'em to find out. As long as you're not pushing Powerbelts as fast as possible, they do just fine.


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You can try PRBs, but it's unlikely they will shoot well at a muzzle velocity suitable for hunting.

Power Belts, the new Federal bullet, or 300gr Hornady FPBs are probably your best choices, combined with a reasonable powder charge. The weight of the Encore should allow a little more power without objectionable recoil.


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The new Federal bore sized bullet is not pure softer copper and expansion may not be adequate with mild loads. It a copper alloy like the Hornady Monoflex bullet. Probably copper and zinc similar to guilding metal.

Its a tough little bullet. My best guess is the Aerolite is best suited for this load because of the fairly soft lead and large hollow point cavity. REAL conicals may also work but as i said T/Cs sometimes wont shoot them well.

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250gr Aerolite would be perfect. Especially with around 80 grains BH209.

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245 gr Powerbelt over 75gr 777. Easy to load, easy to shoot. Assuming it is accurate enough out of your rifle, lethal.

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For a lead bullet try the 250 grain Lee REAL bullet. They perform very well.

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Thanks for all the suggestions, I have plenty of things to try for sure.

Is bh209 the new favorite/magic bp substitute? I have a full pound of 777 and some old Pyrodex. I'll probably try those first.

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Originally Posted by taylorce1
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Hornady XTP Bullets 44 Caliber (430 Diameter) 180 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point with green Harvester sabot.


Hornady XTP .45 Caliber .451" Diameter in 185 grain with black, smooth Harvester sabot

Precision Polymer Tip 50/40 blue sabot 180 grain sabot/bullet (prbullet.com)

(C.O.P.) Solid Copper Bullets 45 ACP (451 Diameter) 185 Grain Hollow Point Lead-Free.... (copy and paste this one in a Google search box)



Guess you didn't take a look at the rules. I can't use anything but full bore projectiles. No Sabot allowed in Colorado, though they would make things easier if I could.


There were no rules, when I first read your post this morning. It took me about 10-15 minutes to research what I wrote in reply. So somewhere between your original post time-stamp and my time-stamp about 15 minutes later, you added that quote to your post.

It had to been added real quickly, because had you waited a little longer, your post would show it being edited. OR, you unchecked the EDITED" box of your post, when adding that quote.

So perhaps I read your original post a minute or two after you posted it, without that quote, at about 6:16. That is why I never saw your quote, because it wasn't there at the beginning.

Poster Overkill can kiss my a-double-s for his needless, senseless remark about me at 7:18 AM.

Some people are real a-hoes and Overkill is the President of that club.




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BH209 is great, but requires a bullet that gives some resistance for proper ignition. I tried it with one of those little Hornady PA conicals and it blooped the dang thing out at about bean shooter velocity and left a smoke trail like a bottle rocket.

777 is fine, but does go bad, so make sure you test the batch you use for hunting just before you go.


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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by taylorce1
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Hornady XTP Bullets 44 Caliber (430 Diameter) 180 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point with green Harvester sabot.


Hornady XTP .45 Caliber .451" Diameter in 185 grain with black, smooth Harvester sabot

Precision Polymer Tip 50/40 blue sabot 180 grain sabot/bullet (prbullet.com)

(C.O.P.) Solid Copper Bullets 45 ACP (451 Diameter) 185 Grain Hollow Point Lead-Free.... (copy and paste this one in a Google search box)



Guess you didn't take a look at the rules. I can't use anything but full bore projectiles. No Sabot allowed in Colorado, though they would make things easier if I could.


There were no rules, when I first read your post this morning. It took me about 10-15 minutes to research what I wrote in reply. So somewhere between your original post time-stamp and my time-stamp about 15 minutes later, you added that quote to your post.

It had to been added real quickly, because had you waited a little longer, your post would show it being edited. OR, you unchecked the EDITED" box of your post, when adding that quote.

So perhaps I read your original post a minute or two after you posted it, without that quote, at about 6:16. That is why I never saw your quote, because it wasn't there at the beginning.

Poster Overkill can kiss my a-double-s for his needless, senseless remark about me at 7:18 AM.

Some people are real a-hoes and Overkill is the President of that club.



No problem, I edited it immediately because I forgot to add the rules. I'd already saved them to my clipboard. I didn't mean anything by my post, I just thought I got the regs in there fast enough. I realize Colorado is one of a few states that don't allow sabots so I needed the regs in there.

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.50 cal? You might try 35 gr of 777 FFG behind a .490 or .495 patched ball using pillow ticking which can be bought at any fabric shop. It's easy to ID as it is off white and has blue lines sewn in. Cut the ticking in strips 3/4 inch wide then just cut off a bunch at 3/4 long. You need to wash the pillow ticking a couple of times to soften it up. I dip the patches in water then squeeze the water out with my fingers when shooting matches. The semi wet patch won't be in the barrel long enough to wet the powder. You can just substitute the water with crisco shortening for hunting. You need to try the two different ball sizes to see which one your rifle bore likes. My old Thompson .50 loved .495 with the pillow ticking. You can work your way up with the powder charge but you don't have to get crazy and will probably settle on 55/60 gr. Shooting matches with 35 gr is very accurate with no kick whatsoever. Just make sure you seat the ball all the way down as I heard one of the reason H&R might have gone out of biz was perhaps not because they made a bad rifle but because folks will do what they do. Douglas once had issues with their BP barrels also. I shoot a .45 cal Kentucky using a Douglas barrel and it's the most accurate BP ML I own.
Ref powders: I use Trip7 and love it as it burns fairly clean and is very easy to clean. It does burn a hair hotter than Goex but it's is also a little bit tougher to ignite. I use Goex in my .45 Flintlock ML to prevent hang fires.
I also use a drop tube made from an arrow shaft with a static free funnel JP'd on top. I slide it down the barrel to make sure the powder goes straight down to the breech and does't hang up to be mushed by the patched ball going down. It keeps everything consistent.

Here's my kit for the range. I use the rubber mallet to tap around the breech after I stick in the powder. It ensures I get the powder down into the breech channel. Feel free to ask any other questions.
[Linked Image]


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250gr or 270gr sabertooth over 70-80 grs of 2f 777

take about 10 oz,s of lead fishing weights and a bunch of wally world bags and take the butt pad off and stuff em layed into the stock for a little weight /recoil reduction

should be fine
low recoil and good power and accurate
50-75 yds all day long

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Originally Posted by bigblock455
250gr Aerolite would be perfect. Especially with around 80 grains BH209.


That's what I was thinking. To answer the OP's question, yes it is the "new best powder." I haven't seen the problem the other poster talked about, needing resistance to light, and I'm using powerbelts--they don't offer much resistance.

It does require a standard 209 primer, not one of the special ML 209 primers.



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I would also look at a 250 Thor, over about 60-70gr pyrodex/777. Should easily give you what you are looking for, and not to hard on the kid.

I think you can get a sample bullet kit to see what size your rifle likes, since they are full bore.

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