Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires For a very very accurate 22 LR rifle.....

I picked up a Winchester M/52 pre A with a standard weight barrel that the previous owner had shortened to 22". In addition to shortening the barrel the stock has been trimmed down into a sporter configuration and nicely checkered. It balances very nicely with the 22" barrel and the standard weight barrel has a lot more weight than original 52 sporters. I prefer this rifle over my original 52 sporters, A and pre A rifles can be found for reasonable prices as they are not favored by target shooters or collectors.

Only one mention of the Savage Mark 2 series. I have two. Many of my buds have them. They are just silly accurate. Aesthetically they leave a good bit to be desired, but if it's punching ragged holes that tickles your fancy, then shell out the $225 and let the giggling begin.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MARKIIFV

They are available in some serious target models too.

aint no way a mark2 can run with the "big dogs"
you gotta spend way more money for street cred man

I have a Kimber Classic that is damn accurate

For lower budget - CZ 452 but plan on doing some trigger work and a bedding job, it will group with many higher dollar rifles

For a mid-range budget - Remington 541S or 541T sporter, but be sure to get one with the adjustable trigger - not all of them had one. They too will more than likely need a bedding job to perform their best. Also magazines are becoming diffficult to find and a bit pricey.

For upper-end budget - Cooper 57M or Anschutz 1700 series. With some searching you can still stumble across them in $1200 - $1500 range.

I own or have owned a few of all mentioned but none have made me smile as much my Cooper 57m's do.

drover

I own 2 1422 (54 action Anschutz sporters). Have owned a CZ 455 and two 541's. The 1422's grouped much better than the others with fancy ammo. Cheap ammo was a "crap shoot" with all of these rifles, including the Annies. Had opposite result with 17hmr's. My CZ 452 outshot 2 different Anschutz 17's that I have owned. I have never owned a Cooper but would expect them to shoot with the Annies.

Some of those 1422s have a nice feel to them, congratulations. I particularly like the run Anschutz made with the medium weight barrels.

You are right, the Ccoopers can be very accurate as they apparently really know how to install a barrel. However, their trigger design leaves much to be desired.

I prefer using one of the match Anschutz actions and installing a high quality custom barrel, but I am curious about the custom actions. Does anyone here shoot a Stiller or Hall actioned rifle? I understand that there are a few custom triggers available now that rival the Anschutz 5018.

This sums it up well for me. I had a CZ 452, 77/22 Target and a Kimber Classic at different times in the past. All would average around 5/8" at 50 yds with their preferred ammo. I currently have a couple of Rem 541T's I've picked up used over the last couple of years. One is a heavy barrel worked over by Brian Voelker and the other is an unaltered sporter barrel. I haven't worked with them enough yet to say, but am developing the feeling they will outshoot the others I've had. Both have shot 50 yd groups well under 1/2" - I need to shoot them more to determine if that is repeatable over time.

That said, I like the idea of a tricked out 10/22 - Ruger's 10 round rotary magazines kick ass in the gopher killing fields...

I have a Stiller 2500X actioned bench rifle and a couple Turbo actioned bench rifles. All have Jewell 2 oz triggers. The Jewell triggers as well as the Bix'n Andy triggers are used at the highest level of benchrest competition. They certainly are as good as the Anschutz triggers. I also have a first year production Cooper 57M and while it's trigger can't be safely brought down to 2 oz., mine is adjusted down to 2 lb. and is crisp with no creep or over-travel and is very controllable. While it can't shoot with my custom benchrest sporter, it shoots extremely well. For a non-target sporter, I think the Cooper trigger is pretty damn good. I also have a Remington 541THB and the Cooper trigger is far superior.

For anyone interested in what the top rimfire shooters are using for equipment, click on the link below and click on the equipment tab in the right upper corner.

http://www.americanrimfire.com/index.php/user/match_results/2143

Agreed about the Cooper triggers, they are much better than they get credit for. Nice shooting by the way.

Cooper clearly states that they build hunting rifles - not benchrest rifles and so for their intended purpose the triggers are more than adequate. On my Cooper sporters I set them at 1# 8 oz.by doing nothing more than backing out the weight of pull adjustment spring.

By respringing and carefully adjusting sear engagement I have had my LVT down to a safe 6 ounces, and currently have it set at 11. It is not a benchrest trigger nor was it even intended to be.
(I do not recommend setting one this low unless you are proficient in trigger adjustment - if you must have one this low Jard sells a replacement trigger.)

I will add this caveat - On Cooper triggers, due to the design of the safety, if the sear engagement is changed the safety MUST be readjusted. It is not rocket science for someone who understands mechanical interaction but SHOULD NOT be attempted by someone who does not because the safety can be rendered disabled and create a hazardous situation. There is plenty of info on the board about how to do.

drover

If you can stand the coin, go straight to Anschutz. I have had three 54 Sporters. Try as I may, I never learned to like the roll over stocks for field work. OK from the bench, terrible got hunting. These days, they offer an American style stock. My cheap Remingtons to follow do very nearly as well.

I have a couple of older Marlin 39A Mounties that are not far behind.

After my bride's folks all passed away, she sold the house. While cleaning out the store room, I found an old single shot Remington 510 Targetmaster. Absolutely no blue left, but a good looking bore. It shoots bug holes.

Cruising the pawn shops a year or so ago, I found a Remington 511 ( same gun with a removable magazine) in really nice condition for $40. I grabbed it. It is the same gun as the Junior Target, sans the receiver sight and target stock. It shoots bug holes as well, especially with target ammo.

I'm sure others have covered the new offerings. I like used guns for value.

Best,

Jack

If you can find an Izhmash CM-2 for a good price, I highly recommend buying one. I picked up one about 8 years ago for a great price and it's by far the most accurate 22 i own. I also currently own a highly customed 10/22, a stock 10/22, Izhmash Biathlon Basic, CZ452 Varmint, CZ452 Scout/with adult stock and a couple of old 22 single shots. The CM-2 will out shoot them all. The CZ452 Varmint and Izhmash BB would run a tie for second.

Do you happen to have experience with the Stiller repeater action? What about the two stage triggers that can be fitted to them? My experience is mostly with silhouette rifles, and any option to Anschutz would be welcome. Thanks!

This is interesting. I had two Classics and one JSR but I sold them because of the mechanical action of the safety and the fact that for the trigger to work reliably there had to be movement(creep and over-travel). It was admittedly not a great deal of movement and would likely have worked fine in some applications, but it certainly was not in the league of the 5018 Anschutz. Yours may of course be different, but the three samples I had did not have the consistent feel that is necessary for silhouette no matter what I did or who I sent them off to. This seems to be a common feeling as custom Anschutz rifles are by far the norm in that discipline.

But you say this can be remedied? I'd like to know more. Thanks!

Also, I understand that good two stage triggers can be fitted to the Melvin Forbes receiver, does anyone have experience with this? I have felt the excellent Jewell triggered version, but I am more interested in match grade two stage triggers that are highly adjustable for weight distribution. Thanks again!

Do you happen to have experience with the Stiller repeater action? What about the two stage triggers that can be fitted to them? My experience is mostly with silhouette rifles, and any option to Anschutz would be welcome. Thanks! [/quote]

I have knowledge of the Stiller 2500X benchrest sporter (repeater) action but no practical experience. Several folks that I shoot with have them and like them. They are not the hunting/sporter actions that they recently introduced. The benchrest sporter actions are very nice. I think a Stiller repeater action with a Jewell or Bix'N Andy trigger and custom BR-type sporter barrel would make a dandy silhouette rifle. Stiller 2500X actions are top notch IMO.

...say Fotis...you ever decide what rifle to buy???

I do not know what I can add to my statement except to say that if you have creep it means you have excessive sear engagement. It is simple to adjust the sear for a minimum engagement with no creep. I am a bit confused by your statement concerning overtravel - it is necessary to have overtravel or the trigger cannot move enough to release the sear. The overtravel is easily set by the overtravel adjustment screw, you can set it to a minimum by turning the screw in until the trigger no longer releases, then start backing it out a bit at a time until you get the desired overtravel. Jewel's and 5018 both have overtravel and they are adjusted in the same manner as the Cooper trigger.
But I will qualify my post again by saying that the safety must be readjusted anytime the sear engagement has been changed.

If you go to rimfirecentral.com and go to the Cooper forum one of the first things you will see is a sticky concerning Cooper trigger adjustment. The person who posted it recommends moly powder to "slick" them up but I have never had to do that, instead I replace the weight of pull spring with a "softer" spring and then set the weight of pull to what weight I want. As I said - I have had them as low as a safe and reliable 6 ounces but I that was only on one of my LVT's that I was uisng for bench work, so I cannot say that they will all go that low.

I too am a bit of a trigger snob because I am now in my 36th year of shooting rifle silhouette (first match in 1979). I am Master in smallbore Std and Hunter and AAA in high-power Std and Hunter. I have been fortunate enough to win a few State championships and a National championship, I have spent a lot of years pulling triggers and am firm believer that it is more about "trigger time" than the trigger itself, if it has reasonable quality and repeatability.
But in reading your posts and the triggers you are using I suspect that you are using a dedicated Std rifle wheras I began using my Hunter rifle for bot Std and Hunter class a great many years ago so I only have need for a consistent 2# trigger on my 57M, I have my trigger set at 2 lb, 2 oz (2 extra oz to allow for ham-handed certifiers who do not know how to properly lift a trigger weight), and on my Lyman electronic gauge the largest variance I have seen on my Cooper trigger is 3/10 of an ounce over an average of 5 pulls.

Too me the Jewel and 5018 are both the wrong trigger for a Hunter class rifle where the weight must be in lbs, not ounces. The reason IMO is that the thinner trigger shoe on both of them increase the "felt" pull weight because you are pulling on such a small surface area. Wheras with a wider trigger shoe, such as found on Coopers, Timney's, Rem 700 triggers spreads the "felt" weight over the larger area and creates the sensation of a lighter trigger than it actually is.
(Hopefully I have been able to paint a word picture so that you can visualize what I am saying.)

I tried Jewel's and 5018's both throughout the years on Hunter rifles and they just never worked as well for me a clean crisp single stage trigger with the wider shoe, but then I do not like 2-stage triggers either. IMO they are fine for Std rifle or benchrest but just not the right trigger for Hunter class rifles.



But we have drifted a long ways from the OP's question which was
" For a very very accurate 22 LR rifle.....
Older or new manufacturer what would you suggest?"

No match type rifles but I want a tackdriver!"

Not to start a war of words, or taking anything away form Anschutz engineering and mechanics, but fulfilling that statement IMO is where the Cooper shines -

(I am talking base grade rifles with no upgrades for both manufacturers, and I also realize that there exceptions but as a general rule this is what I have encountered throughout my years having owned quite a number of both of them,)

The better Anschutz wood is generally very plain compared to the average Cooper wood.

The Anschutz wood fit and finish is not generally in the same ballpark as the Cooper.

The best Anschutz checkering looks like it was done with a dull fork wheras the Cooper checkering is hand-done and is usually flawless.

Accuracy wise there is little to no difference between them, there is probably more difference between individual guns than there is between the manufacturers.

And finally the fact that Coopers are totally made in the U.S. by American workers.


Sorry that this has gotten so long winded but I wanted to post my credentials as far as triggers and just could not find any way to shorten it up and still be somewhat understandable.

drover

Just to be different how about a Springfield M1922. I picked this one up for about 1K and it shoots sub moa. You have to search the auction houses but they do come up. I just like the military trainers and this NRA sporter is hard to beat.

All you guys,,,,,,,, suck...

And RogerD, you REALLY suck!!!