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Hey everyone, I don't post often but I read here everyday. I would like to get the perspective of more experienced hunters who have the advantage of hindsight and also more international hunting experience than myself (which doesn't take much, ha.) First, a short background on me. I am 32, married, and about 11 months ago I finished all of my medical training. I grew up and still live in the Southeast US hunting whitetail and small game. It's nice but I have always dreamed of Africa, Alaska, and all the other far off places. Now that I have some disposable income it's time to make dreams a reality. Last August I went to Namibia for my first safari (typical plains game, 10 days, had a blast) and prior to that I have been to Utah for mule deer and elk in on unguided, public land hunts. They were awesome but I never shot anything. I want to/dream of doing it all, especially sheep, but Africa and dangerous game was the first thing that lured me as a boy.

All of that leads me to this question, and I know it's just speculation but I thought some of you may enjoy the discussion. If you were in my position or if you had to do it over again but starting in today's political climate- Where would you start? I'm sure some of you had the chance to hunt Kenya or even tigers way back (which in my mind seems like the ultimate hunt on the planet) and didn't do it. I'm looking at elephant and lion right now as the two most endangered hunts due to the politics of both Africa and the libtards in the US. But are there other species I am missing that I should give consideration. In my mind I have written off most of the sheep/goats of Asia due to the obvious issues in the Middle East. I am sitting in the hospital right now with my wife and my 2nd son was just born yesterday. What animal should I make top priority right now so that when he is a young man he can look at that mount with stars in his eyes, amazed at what his father hunted as a younger man and inspired by that to go seek his own adventures before they too pass by.

Thanks for your time.

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I have no experience what so ever to answer your question, but CONGRATS on the new baby!

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thanks!

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There is game that will soon be impossible to import or hunt, so I'd put them on the top of the list.

All Cats - Lion is now prohibitively expense. The total bill for taking a free range lion in Tanzania will be $75k or more. Leopard is still doable and highly recommended.

Elephant - Zim can still make it happen, but you might as well make the safari for lion include your elephant and leopard. That will be $100k, but its done. Piecemeal, it will cost you double.

Lord Derby Eland and Bongo - Cameroon and CAR. Hunters are still going there without incident BUT between Boko Harem and CAR political situation, I wonder how.

I'd go to Tanzania on any safari you can afford just to see the land and experience it. It gets more ridiculously expensive every season, but it is #1 and the land that I picture when someone mentions safari.

There, you go, I have just spent at least $150k of your after tax money. I guarantee that if you could ever do it, you'd see it as an investment that will enrich your life to the end.


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

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thanks hatari, those are definitely animals on my dream list. I had planned to go after the spiral horns before the Big Five but now I'm afraid the lion and elephant would be unavailable/illegal to import if I put them off that long.

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I plan to go to SCI or Dallas in 2016. Does anyone have recommendations for outfitters in Tanzania that I should look at?

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You can do kudu, nyala, and Cape and limpopo bushbuck in RSA. JJack can fix you up there.

Sitatunga and Chobe bb in Zambia. Bongo in Cameroon or CAR. Lesser Kudu in Tanz.

That is a lifetime worth of fun. I am yet to get sitatunga or Lesser kudu. I'd like the chance!!


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

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Thumos,

I went to Tanzania with my wife for three weeks with just a camera. It was by far the greatest experience of my life and I'd highly recommend it. It runs about $12,000 a person all inclusive, which is a major savings compared to a hunting trip.

Honestly, many of the animals were much easier to approach than WT deer. If you want a real thrill, try unexpectedly standing 30 or 40 yards away from a leopard in the open with no one in the group with a rifle. That is some sport.

It is harder to take a good photo than make a good shot.

Not knocking the hunting by any means, but do not lock yourself into that as the only option.

For a young man starting off, put money early in life into paying off all of your debt, then into some investments, a house, and a good start on your life. One thing that is almost certain, life will have some ups and downs, and then cash in the bank is precious.

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I never did take a really good photo of a rhino. Most were too far, too hazy, too much mirage.... but I did see them, so I have my big five. Honestly, I enjoy the looking at the photos still, and would not trade them for any mount on the wall and I love hunting.

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Really nice!!


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

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Really like your cape buffalo picture!

John

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Originally Posted by hatari
There is game that will soon be impossible to import or hunt, so I'd put them on the top of the list.

All Cats - Lion is now prohibitively expense. The total bill for taking a free range lion in Tanzania will be $75k or more. Leopard is still doable and highly recommended.

Elephant - Zim can still make it happen, but you might as well make the safari for lion include your elephant and leopard. That will be $100k, but its done. Piecemeal, it will cost you double.

Lord Derby Eland and Bongo - Cameroon and CAR. Hunters are still going there without incident BUT between Boko Harem and CAR political situation, I wonder how.

I'd go to Tanzania on any safari you can afford just to see the land and experience it. It gets more ridiculously expensive every season, but it is #1 and the land that I picture when someone mentions safari.

There, you go, I have just spent at least $150k of your after tax money. I guarantee that if you could ever do it, you'd see it as an investment that will enrich your life to the end.


All is too true. I'm glad I became penniless from safaris when I had a few pennies. The pennies are all gone, but the memories and experiences will live past me in my grandson's love of all which is outdoors.

I'm a fence sitter regarding the cats, especially lions. Lions are having real problems, as man breeds like bunnies in Africa. The stress on resources that overpopulation creates, and the general corruption of government, especially African governments, has the lion populations and locations in a nosedive.

As to high prices for much of the Big Five, I don't see it as much protection of the animals. There are far too many Arabs, Chinese, and Russians who look at the costs as chump change. smirk


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Jeff-

Those are great photos. My wife likes photography, when we went to Namibia that is how she spent most of her time. We went to Etosha and I certainly enjoyed that aspect of the safari. For me a large part of the appeal of hunting is the travel and experiencing new cultures, flora, and food. That being said, I also want to shoot something with a rifle, haha. I've stalked a few things with a camera and it just isn't the same for me.

I hear you about the home, investments, and debt. Trust me, I am not looking to spend every dime I earn on hunting. I have a good home, max my 401k each yr, and own a couple little rental properties. I could certainly put the money towards paying more on my student loans (I'm already paying extra every month) or paying down the investments but at some point you have to play.

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luv2safari-

Are you saying that we shouldn't hunt lion? Not trying to argue, only wondering if they is what you are getting at.

I agree that lion are in trouble but I think that if we as hunters acquiesce to what anti hunters tell us then we have only doomed the animal in question to an even quicker demise. Not to mention that we gave up on the only chance that species may have had to survive. Shooting mature males that are no longer breeding is not going to harm a breeding population. It only helps it to raise more offspring through less competition for the breeders. I do think hunters have erred in the past by shooting male lions that have a nice mane even though they were still in charge of a pride. That of course harms to pride and likely results in the death of the newest generation since any new male will kill the young cubs so he can breed the females quicker. It seems now that reputable PH's are moving away from shooting lions less than 6 yrs old and this is the right thing to do based on the few studies that I have read about lion's ecology.

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I don't know what the solution to the rapid decline of the lion is. Taking only old solitary males doesn't seem to have much of an effect on populations, but scruples are sorely lacking when a billionaire with a desire to get his lion is in the mix, and that is the person who can still afford a lion hunt these days.

I honestly don't see a solution to saving the wild African lion populations. Africa just has too many ignorant starving people and too much corruption.


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The problems are habitat reduction, poaching, and animal killing to eliminate them or for food by locals, not sports hunting. Stopping hunting in Africa will likely only speed extinction of the large animals, as there is no influx of money to incentive people holding land for breeding preserves or in using their time and risking their lives in fighting poachers.

However, there doesn't appear to really be any solutions to stop these things from happening.


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I'm not sure there is a solution. I would like to think most people who are willing to shell out the money are still true sportsmen. Even if some aren't, that isn't what will be the downfall of wild lions. Like I suggested in my original post, will they be the next tiger? Lost to hunting forever. If they are and I can hunt them now, should I get it while it last? Or do you think that is an unethical mindset?

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I agree JB

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In Tanzania, one of the major - make that HUGE - threats to the Serengeti ecosystem is a proposal to put a major east/west superhighway right through the middle of the Serengeti. The primary proponent of the highway is the Chinese who are buying up mining and agricultural rights and want rapid transit to the shipping ports on the coast.

This will have devastating effects on all of the species, especially the migratory animals such as Wildebeest and those that follow them such as lions.

http://www.savetheserengeti.org/issues/highway/stop-the-serengeti-highway/

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To answer your questions, Thumos, hunt your lion now (if you can afford it). Doing so is not unethical. The $35,000 to $50,000 you spend will ensure the lion population where you hunted will receive some protection for another year or two. When lion hunting ends, which it now appears will happen sooner or later, there will be no wild lions remaining outside Africa's nationals parks.

Bill Quimby

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Thank you, Mr. Quimby.

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I was fortunate to take a male lion in 2011 in Zimbabwe, as well as my second elephant, buffalo, and hippo. Only two lions were taken that year in a concession as large as Rhode Island. I wanted to do this before lion hunting became illegal. I now have all of my big five except for rhino, which are basically no longer huntable, and leopard.

Now the Obamunists have made it illegal to import elephant trophies from Zimbabwe and
Tanzania, the two countries where most are taken. If I were you, I would contact Atcheson's to set up a DG safari. Mine did not cost as much as Hatari indidcated, at least not four years ago.

The population of sub-Saharan Africa is about 1,000,000,000 and projected to hit 3,000,000,000 by the end of this century. Meanwhile, the US population becomes more anti-hunting every year. I suspect the only African dangerous game hunting, if it survives at all, will be for buffalo and perhaps canned lion hunts in South Africa. Plains game hunting will survive behind high fences in South Africa.

If you kill a lion, get a necklace or lavaliere made from one of the dew claws. It is a trophy you can wear and is priceless in the sense that your friends and associates cannot go and buy one.


Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.

Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Thanks Indy, that all sounds like good advice.

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Thumos,

Sent you a PM. I'm jet lagged in Jo-burg at the moment before shipping of to Tanzania tomorrow. We are going after lion, leopard, and buffalo.

I'll give you a report and see you at Dallas SCI, per my PM.

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Thanks, ks.

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