Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Still think over-penetration is a non-issue? Read this...

True, true, and true!

See, North and South can coexist. Might want to tell the TX lawyer......

Deer ain't that much different then people, the big difference being you eat deer after they are dead.

[bleep].... eat the deer, not the people. Whatever!

You're a Yankee, but you ain't a damnyankee. Therein lies the difference.

He's close enough to be called a Canadian

PWI posting while intoxicated.

Cheap Vodka and hate of the .380 seem to be popular in some circles, its like the .380 is the .270 of pistols or something, I am now waiting for one of the Montana boys to show up in "something" leopard skinned then we will have covered everything in this thread and can move onto the next topic in madness.

I will have to save this for posterity.

Wow. I'm glad I don't punch a clock. I'm going to start work a little late this morning because I just read all 37 pages of this nonstop. Of coarse, like most campfire threads, I 'm still confused about what we were suposed to be discussing.

I think it had something to do with Gun Geek having a penetration problem.....

It is true, can we ever forgive and get together again.

The thing some do not get is a man shot is one lung but deer are shot to take both. Not many people are shot sideways so you need better bullet function. You need it faster.
How long to wait until bleed out when he has a gun? Would you stab with a pen as he beats you with bat?
Actually if you had the bat and made a home run on the creeps head it is better then a mag of nines.

Continuing to talk about schit you haven't a clue about does not a positive impression make.

Simply put, you're f'kin' clueless on this and it shows.

Here are a few hints, from personal experience;

Lung hits are NOT what you're going for, thus your example is piss poor. You want X-ring heart shots, CNS hits, or hits to MAJOR bone structures (especially the pelvic girdle). Precision counts in those matters far more so than does energy or anything else. A .22LR to the brain pan or spinal column (especially in the neck) or through the heart is decisive; even a .32 to the pelvic girdle can drop an assailant. Hits to the muscle walls on/near/just-above the pelvic girdle are effective; not completely destructive, but potentially debilitating. A hip shot will drop a man fast and will put him out of commission because of the pain involved and likely prove fatal if the femoral is hit (and it's a good chance of that happening with a hip shot). A hit through the diaphragm can work as well, but ain't as likely. None of these, save the CNS hit and the X-ring heart shot, are comparatives to deer.

A single lung hit or liver hit on a man can be deadly, but in the time it takes for such to prove effective, regardless of the size of the hole punched through, you could well be dead.

You want precision, and given the fact that an assailant is going to moving, almost assuredly armed, and may well have struck first, rounds on deck and in the magazine matter because this isn't some "fine bead on the deer's chest" situation; this is put rounds down range and on target QUICKLY, where hits matter and often it's not the first shot that makes the precision hit necessary.

Killing deer is f'kin' easy. Shooting them is even easier. Men ain't the same, and if you haven't a clue (as you clearly don't bfrshooter) then STFU and learn.

I don't have nearly the experience with the subject matter at hand as some of the fellows on this board and on this thread, but I have more than bfrshooter and more than enough to call BS on his posts.

What is Masaad Ayoobs "day job"?
I know he writes books and I own a few of them.
He is also an expert witness in court.
However I think being a reserve policeman is kind of contrary to being an expert.
If you work one eight hour shift per month that is only two weeks experience for every year you are a rookie even after forty years.

Mas is a salesman. No more and no less.

4ager, Crimson, Mac, and any others who care to chime in..

Have read most of this thread.. In 4's last post you mention a pelvis hit.. That is certainly a deadly shot. Years ago when my wife and I just had a couple .22 pistols, that is where I told her to but the first shot..
Now, having shot only game, if you used that point of aim, for your first round and assume you had a good hit, what should your next point of aim be?? I would think, as pointed out this would stop or slow an attacker, but would he not be capable of shooting back or suing me later if he lived????

I realize this is not a for sure thing, but I used to tell my wife a couple .22's to the groin and a finisher will settle the case... Only the best advice I could give for what we had.. Self defense and we now have it was many years down the road.. Thanks.

I would not recommend any "finisher" shot ever. I would recommend shooting as appropriate until the threat is abated/neutralized, which is what the law of self defense in most jurisdictions allows (check your own jurisdiction for exact verbiage).

4, Thanks.. I couldn't think of the politically correct term at the moment.. "Shoot until the threat is abated/neutralized.." I appreciate you help, hope I never have to use it..

I hope you don't either and I am glad you understand what is legally defensible.

I also hope that the other fellas who are at least as well versed in this schit - and some much more so - will chime in.