Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns My how times have changed

Stopped into a LGS yesterday and they had just bought out a nice collection of guns. Included were several nice model 12s including one field grade 12ga that was just your run of the mill model 12 with a plain modified barrel on it. The outstanding feature was if it had the box and hang tag it could pass as NOS. I noted the price and it was IMHO quite reasonable certainly less than a new wingmaster and a lot of the current imports that are so popular. I was talking to the owner and he said it was priced that ways because plain barrel fixed choke 2 3/4" guns just didn't bring much anymore. What a shame it is such a beautiful piece of hunting history and good for a couple of lifetimes of service. I need it like a hole in the head but I might try and trade into before some nitwit decides to make a tactical gun out of it.

Yea, go get it before some one screws it up. Seems like lots of guys buy into the GOT to have a 3.5 inch mag to kill a duck..

I have been killing stuff with 2 3/4 inchers for a LONG time and never have I felt under gunned. Im lookin for just that rig, wish it were closer.

Knock, Knock.

How much was it ??? I'd be interested if you don't want it.

Model 12's, unless in 28ga, don't bring what they are truly worth. I think shotgunning has changed a lot and a fixed choke plain barreled 12ga pump in 2 3/4" doesn't fit most folks idea of a "useful" gun. Every time I see one priced like that I'm tempted to buy it. Times have truly changed..

Correct.

Except for the extremes choke tubes are for the most part overrated. 2 3/4 in chambers work for anything and most think working a pump is like learning a foreign language.

Addition: Watched a South Dakota local one time with a Rem 870 go to work on a group of Roosters busting out of a ditch. He had two dead in the air before most would have the gun mounted. Bang, Bang, two head flops.

Doubt if many could have kept up with a two barrel or semi.

I agree. Around here they don't bring as much as they did 30 years ago unless it's in 28ga or a model 42.
Waterfowling with steel shot and turkey hunting has reduced the desire for 2 3/4" 12ga.

A couple of days ago I saw a plain barrel IC choked 12ga model 12 in about 85% to 90% condition sell for $225. I think most of the condition issues were from 60 years of storage and not hunting as there was very little blue wear on the magazine tube from being pumped. 12 ga A5s don't bring as much around here as they used to neither do Browning Superposed in 12 and 16 ga.

410s bring top dollar no matter if they're single shot,o/u,sxs,or semi.

Most of us older guys remember this fella,Mr. 870!!!

https://www.joeletchenguns.com/mr870.htm

Rudy is a legend around here with the shooters who have been around awhile.

His father Fred also was one of the best. Olympic Gold medal winner. Grand American Handicap winner along with multiple other titles at State shoots and all the big trap events.

When Rudy wanted to start shooting, Fred said this is what you need to do, and once he gave him the basics he had to shoot a minimum of 500 rounds in a session. He started on station one and he couldn't move to station two until he ran 100 straight on one. Whatever station he started on, it was 100 straight until he moved to the next.

Rudy also knew how to hold two extra shells in his left hand and feed them into the opening one at a time when he emptied the the magazine. Game wardens sneaking around, would come out and try and arrest him for not having a plug in the magazine. Rudy would show them it would only hold three and then would show them how he did it. People who shot with him say shots 4 and 5 happened as quick as the pump and trigger pull.

Joel, Rudy's son also is an accomplished shooter and I think won the same Grand American doubles event as Fred and Rudy. If not he has finished on top of a couple Grand American events.

Joel's Daughter Becca has also won an event at the Grand and shoots better than good.

Closest I've come to a Rudy connection is knowing Joel and shooting with him a few times. Along with having my hands on Rudy's Parker 28ga.

Wow! $225 makes me rethink if this was such a good deal or not, for $225 I would have ripped my pocket getting my wallet out.

Anything at $500 or under was a steal.

Fewer and fewer kids are being exposed to traditional guns/hunting/shooting sports, and those who have no "old guy mentors", and who persevere in their desire to arm themselves, automatically turn to "tacticool" weapons. As that trend continues, and we silverbacks die off, the market will be glutted with cheap classic guns that today sell for a premium.

A couple hundred for a nifty M12? Heck yes, and I'm not even into pumps!

Well said and totally on the mark..

I'd sure would like a slow-mo video of that!


DMc

SHOTGUNNING MASTERY:

The last one is kind of interesting.


Rudy Etchen's Records

Member of 14 All-American Trap and Skeet teams.

Winner North American Clay Target Championship.

Winner Open Championship of North America.

Winner North American Doubles Championship - 5 times.

Winner High Average on 16-Yard Targets in North America twice.

1952 with 99.20% average, a record at the time.

1953 with 99.12% average.

Winner High Over All Championship of North America - 5 times. 1950 score of 980x1000 was a record at the time.

Winner High All Around Championship of North America - 5 times.

Winner of more than 100 state and regional trap championships.

Youngest State Trap Champion - Kansas - 14 years of age. Repeated as State Champion the following year.

Winner High Average on Doubles in North America - 3 times.

First 100 Straight on Doubles ever shot at the Grand American.

Winner of 20 state and regional skeet championships.

Winner National Sub Small Bore (.410) Skeet Championship.

International Skeet - 2nd place in Championship of the World.

International Trap - 3rd place in Championship of the World.

International Trap - winner gold medal at Olympic tryouts in 1972. Broke the first 100 straight ever shot on the Rochester, MN, field enroute to a 196x100.

Winner World Live Pigeon Championship High Over All, Mexico City, 1966. Second place in the individual event among some 478 entrants.

Match of Nations, Cairo, Egypt - Member of winning live-bird team competing with 25 other countries.

Winner World Live Bird Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 1955.

Winner Live Bird Championship of Madrid, 1965.

Winner Live Bird Championship of Paris, 1955.

Winner Open Flyer Championship of Guadalajara, 1974.

Winner Columbaire Championship of Seville, Spain, 1965.

Winner Columbaire Championship of Madrid, 1966.

Winner Columbaire Championship of Egypt Open, 1955.

Grand National Quail Championship, Enid, Oklahoma - high score three years in a row.

Long Run Skeet Record - 104 targets straight. If that doesn't impress you, consider that Rudy Etchen shot it while standing on one foot . . . atop the post at each skeet station . . . using only one hand . . . with a Model 12 pump shotgun.


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Around here Model 12s with a full choke seem to bring the most money.

Dave, when I spent a lot of time in W. Va. 30" model 12's were the standard.. Some guys liked model 31's.. But model 12's were the standard.. The guys I never mostly used them for squirrel hunting and turkey hunting..

Sad but true, the mdl 12 prices started dropping in 2006 with the prices remaining flat for field guns. The 28 gauge guns and Mdl 42's still bring collector prices for "Clean" unmolested guns. The generation that admired the old guns are dying off, retired from shooting with the new generation wanting a more modern (Designer) looking shotgun or just a 870 Express.

The Winchester Super X model 1 prices are depressed as well considering less than 92,000 were produced.

Doc

Model 1897s aren't bringing what they did a few years ago either unless it's a bona-fide trenchgun or a Black Diamond but model 21s are strong and the few decent 1901s that I've seen are just crazy...wait 20 years or so and what is in demand today will be ho-hum then.

The antique oak furniture market(at least in my area)is very depressed...the yuppies will pass on a really nice claw-foot round oak table with matching chairs to buy one of those chrome and vinyl dinette sets from the 50s for two or three times more money...I don't understand it.

Count me as one of the ones who dont find them all that useful...or valuable. While I do grasp the fact that they are fine shotguns, when there are newer guns out there that are infinitely more versatile...why?

I snagged a clean Franchi AL48 in 20 a while back...love the gun, but its a fixed choke gun. Had it not had a Mod and Fixed barrel included, I most likeley would not have carried it home. Even at that, I am considering having the fixed barrel cut for choke tubes.