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I was in the process of building a lightweight 300 WSM, but I just found a SS Tikka /06 for a steal. I was planning this as a sheep rifle for bear country. To the point.

Can I reasonably expect to SAFELY hit 2700-2800 with the 200 accubond? If so, what powder should I try? Any first hand experience? I've seen reports of guys running 208 Amax with RL 17 up to 2800, but that was 4 grains over max for RL 22 in nosler a manual (they don't list 17).

The way I see it, if I can get at least 2700 I'm not giving up anything meanigdul to the WSM. I'm still impacting at 2600 fps to 75 yards and my max is still ~650 with the AB.

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I've never tried it. But I own 30-06 and 300 WSM and have played all the mental games and looked at all of the possible load combinations. As near as I can determine the guys who are getting those numbers with a 30-06 are using at least 26" barrels and loads hotter than I'm comfortable with.

The 300 WSM is going to be at least 150-200 fps faster with a 24" barrel and with sane load levels. You might get the 30-06 within 100 fps, but not with loads I'd trust.

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The way I see it, if I can get at least 2700 I'm not giving up anything meanigdul to the WSM.


Nosler shows 2944 fps from the 300 WSM, and 2688 fps for the 30-06 with RL-22 and 200 gr Accubonds. I think 256 fps is meaningful. Even if you reached 2700 fps, you'd still be 244 fps behind the 300 WSM.

Is it something I need, is it worth the added recoil and reduced magazine capacity? Those are questions I often ask myself.



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Originally Posted by JMR40
I've never tried it. But I own 30-06 and 300 WSM and have played all the mental games and looked at all of the possible load combinations. As near as I can determine the guys who are getting those numbers with a 30-06 are using at least 26" barrels and loads hotter than I'm comfortable with.

The 300 WSM is going to be at least 150-200 fps faster with a 24" barrel and with sane load levels. You might get the 30-06 within 100 fps, but not with loads I'd trust.

Quote
The way I see it, if I can get at least 2700 I'm not giving up anything meanigdul to the WSM.


Nosler shows 2944 fps from the 300 WSM, and 2688 fps for the 30-06 with RL-22 and 200 gr Accubonds. I think 256 fps is meaningful. Even if you reached 2700 fps, you'd still be 244 fps behind the 300 WSM.

Is it something I need, is it worth the added recoil and reduced magazine capacity? Those are questions I often ask myself.



The quoted length was 22.5" on those Amax velocities. I trust the guy as he's a frequent contributor on multiple sites. I just wanted to see if others got it or if it was just a crazy fast 1 off barrel.

When I say not giving up much meaningful, I just meant that I feel both would handle a bear on the off chance it I get charged. And, the AB is still good to 650 yards. I won't be shooting past that with a lightweight backpack rifle.

Either way, I end up with a new rifle, so it's win win smile

I'm also new to re-loading, so I'm not sure this is something I should even be considering unless I can get a buddy to go with me to read the pressure signs.

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I would strongly suggest you stick with the manual recommendations.

A 200 grain bullet going 2500fps is plenty. I wouldn't get caught up on velocity as I would accuracy.

Make sure your shooting skills are up to par as well for a 650 yard shot?

A 180 grain bullet like the Hornady BTSP may be another option for you?
Read, read, and read some more on reloading! Ask plenty of questions. LEE ABC of Reloading is a good start.

Be safe.

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When I had a Savage 30-06 it was very accurate with Hodgdon's max load listed on line of H 4350 with the 200 gr AB which clocked at 2600 fps. Even at 2600 fps it carries a lot of energy out there. With the right powder it could get around 2700 fps safely.


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Yep. The SAAMI maximum pressure for the .30-06 is only 60,000 PSI because of old guns, but even with SAAMI-pressure H4831SC I've gotten 2675 with 200's in some 22" barrels. There's no real reason not to push the SAAMI limit a little.

In the only .30-06 I own right now, a NULA with a 24" barrel, 59.0 grains of H4831SC gets around 2690 with the 200 Partition. Haven't tried the 200 AB with the same load.



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It would be interesting to see if there would be much difference between the 200 gr PT and AB with the same load. Either of them are among the best when it comes to heavy game bullets in a 30 cal.


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Anyone try the 200gr Accubond in the Ruger American at all?

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Originally Posted by Esox357
I would strongly suggest you stick with the manual recommendations.

A 200 grain bullet going 2500fps is plenty. I wouldn't get caught up on velocity as I would accuracy.

Make sure your shooting skills are up to par as well for a 650 yard shot?

A 180 grain bullet like the Hornady BTSP may be another option for you?
Read, read, and read some more on reloading! Ask plenty of questions. LEE ABC of Reloading is a good start.

Be safe.


I think you missed my point on the 650. I was just saying that even 650 is more than enough range for me.

I'm not too worried about the energy way out there. If I'm shooting at range, the target will be sheep/goats/cpx2 types. The only reason I'm going with a 200 AB is the off chance of a bear encounter up close.

My main objective is a 400-500 yard bullet that will handle the off bear.

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We can close this down .... the delta bravo sold the rifle out from under me. Looks like I'll be building the Savage 300 WSM now.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Yep. The SAAMI maximum pressure for the .30-06 is only 60,000 PSI because of old guns, but even with SAAMI-pressure H4831SC I've gotten 2675 with 200's in some 22" barrels. There's no real reason not to push the SAAMI limit a little.

In the only .30-06 I own right now, a NULA with a 24" barrel, 59.0 grains of H4831SC gets around 2690 with the 200 Partition. Haven't tried the 200 AB with the same load.



~54.8grs of RL 17 will put you just under 60,000 psi on a 70 degree day for just under 2700fps (ref QL). I load 53.5 to 54 gr and that puts me right on an accuracy node. This bullet is devastating on large big game, shots MOA to 500+ yards and normally get ~20" groups at 1000yds. Steps the '06 up a couple more notches than your daddy's.

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Originally Posted by tarheelpwr
We can close this down .... the delta bravo sold the rifle out from under me. Looks like I'll be building the Savage 300 WSM now.


If you are looking to shoot in the 5-600 yard range, this will work out better for you anyways.

Put a 26" tube on the WSM, drop back to a quality 180gr bullet, and you will be close to 3200 with lower pressures.


I think it will server you better all around.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Axtell,

20" groups at 1000 yards! And 10 fps more than with H4831. Wow, I'm impressed!

Have you tried that RL-17 load in cold weather? You might be less impressed with it.

For your information, for shooting out to 500 yards there's precious little difference in trajectory or wind-drift between the 200 Partition and 200 AccuBond. This is because the 200 Partition has a BC that surprises many people. And I'm not talking about listed BC, but BC from actual range tests by Bryan Litz.


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And neither is what I'd want to hit stuff at 1K.

Of course I've no desire to kill stuff at 1k and I can't think of much that I'd not hunt with a 200gr Partition in an 06.


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Exactly.

I have killed a few North American big game animals with the 200 Partition from the .30-06 using H4831, most of them taken long before QuickLoad, RL-17 and the 200 AccuBond existed, and have found the load works very well on everything from pronghorns up through elk. If that makes me obsolete, so be it--but the load never "failed" because it wasn't computer calculated, used the latest magic powder, and the bullet lacked a plastic tip.

Did run the numbers through the Berger ballistics program, however, and found the 200 AB does shoot 1" flatter than the Partition at 500, and drifts 2" less in a 10-mph wind. Next time I decide to shoot prairie dogs with a 30-06 just might have to try some AB's. Otherwise I don't think it will make any noticeable difference.


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Do you have a link to Litz's analysis of the 200 PT. I'd much rather run that in bear country, but I was worried it gave up a bit more downrange to the AB. The PT would also be much more accommodating in a 300 WSM case.

1" drop and 2" drift is nothing.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by tarheelpwr
We can close this down .... the delta bravo sold the rifle out from under me. Looks like I'll be building the Savage 300 WSM now.


If you are looking to shoot in the 5-600 yard range, this will work out better for you anyways.

Put a 26" tube on the WSM, drop back to a quality 180gr bullet, and you will be close to 3200 with lower pressures.


I think it will server you better all around.


I don't like the idea of trying to get on a bear quickly with a 26" tube. 500 yards is my max for main quarry, but I want to make sure I don't have a cannon that is not balanced. This is a lightweight backpack rig.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Axtell,

20" groups at 1000 yards! And 10 fps more than with H4831. Wow, I'm impressed!

Have you tried that RL-17 load in cold weather? You might be less impressed with it.

For your information, for shooting out to 500 yards there's precious little difference in trajectory or wind-drift between the 200 Partition and 200 AccuBond. This is because the 200 Partition has a BC that surprises many people. And I'm not talking about listed BC, but BC from actual range tests by Bryan Litz.


Well, they are only 3 shot groups, 5 shot groups go to 30" @ 1000. These groups were shot pretty consistently over the last 3 years at club fun shoots.These are really poor groups compared to others, but shot with my regular hunting rifle, 6x scope and hunting loads.Specialized rigs within the rules, <10.5 lbs, and scope set at 9x or less for the 3 shot, look for 3 shots in the 3"zone and 5 shot <6". A custom 6mm Dasher with NF scopes seem to be the preferred for this activity.
RL- 17 'I've heard' is temperature sensitive as compared to say H4350. In the field my shots usually come at less than 200 yards so I have not noticed any ill effects. The Accubond seems more devastating compared to other bullets.
I do realize that the 200gr Partition is a real 'sleeper' in the 30 caliber line up and do agree that the Partition at <500 yds
gives up very little to the Accubond.

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tarheelpower,

Don't have a link but it's in his book BALLISTIC PERFORMANCE OF RIFLE BULLETS, which contains the tested results of a pile of bullets from .224 to .338 in diameter. The G7 BC for the 200 Partition is .246 and for the 200 AB is .275 at 2500-3000 fps, the velocity range we’re talking about. I ran the numbers for 35 degrees F. at 4000 feet above sea level, which is probably average for fall hunting here in Montana. It can get colder but also higher!

But I also wouldn’t worry much about using the AccuBond in bear country. I’ve tested it in dry newspaper, one of the tougher tests of expanding bullets, and very similar to what happens when heavy bone is hit. Penetration and weight retention is very similar to the 200 Partition.

One thing I have noticed in several rifles, however, is Partitions often out-shoot AccuBonds. Have seen that numerous times. Of course, that doesn’t matter in a close encounter with a bear, but if on-game performance is similar I tend to choose whichever bullet is more accurate.


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Axtell,

That’s usually about the ratio between 3-shot and 5-shot groups at any range.

I have used the 200 Accubond some, and it’s a fine bullet. But have been using the 200 Partition with excellent results for far longer, so tend to use it more, particularly when it shoots a little better!


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