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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
Did you also know there was an assassination plot headed by the state dept to poison Pancho Villa? The co-conspirators were two Japanese businessmen. They were to give him small doses of poison until it built up enough in his system to kill him. They even experimented on a dog. But they chickened out in the end Yep, they should have hired some of the disenchanted Mexicans.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
I like the fact that Pershing was dating Patton's sister in 1915/16. Now you know how he got on his staff in Mexico!!! Pershing was a real ladies man before his marriage and after he lost his wife in the Presidio fire. He had a pretty 23 year old Romanian artist's model as his paramour during his time in France during WWI (Pershing was 57). They maintained their relationship after the war and Pershing secretly married Micheline Resco just before his death and left her a sizable inheritance.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
Here is yet another question that gave my students fits in the post-bellum lectures:
Did the US military learn any lessons from the Civil War that helped them in the Spanish American War?
Were they more/better prepared for major military operations in the spring of 1898 than they were in the spring of 1861? Use comparison and contrast to examine this issue in detail. Yes, and no. We had no clue what we were going up against as far as advanced weaponry (bolt action rifles) and were still stuck in the musket era as far as infantry weapons. We had no clue how to do amphibious invasions. We still had no clue how to do light infantry assaults or use of unconventional tactics/combatants (RoughRiders figured that out, along with better weaponry). We had an advantage when in came to some assault tactics and especially in assaults on fortified defenses and use of trenches. However, this was essentially a draw with what the Spaniards brought to the table. By far, our greatest advancement and advantage was in the use of ironclad warships. We learned very quickly that wooden vessels were no match for iron clads and that proved decisive against the Spanish. Thumbnail sketch of a much larger and longer topic. I could have surely used you in class.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,605 |
absent slavery, that whole war weren't happening....
Too bad one can't prove a negative.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,605 |
I'm curious as to what we would look like, had the States gone their various directions? Before Lincoln consolidated the states under a central power, they were already in "their various directions". And this was (is) a good thing?, particularly in light of we were at the height of the European imperial era and possible expansion into the continent? While I agree the CSA were very much in their right to secede, a United States (at lest until recently, and more specifically Universal Suffrage and democrats), this country is one HELL of a great place to live in...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,007
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,007 |
I'm curious as to what we would look like, had the States gone their various directions? Before Lincoln consolidated the states under a central power, they were already in "their various directions". And this was (is) a good thing?, particularly in light of we were at the height of the European imperial era and possible expansion into the continent? While I agree the CSA were very much in their right to secede, a United States (at lest until recently, and more specifically Universal Suffrage and democrats), this country is one HELL of a great place to live in... Still the greatest country on Earth.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,742 |
why didnt the south accept the Corwin amendment if it was over slavery? that gave them slavery forever
"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered."
― George Orwell, 1984
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,605 |
The Royal Spanish regulations on caste and class were extreme to say the least. I wonder how the Spanish court of that time would deal with us here at the Campfire? I am thinking exile to a life at hard labor in a penal colony. Chances are none of us would be allowed to use or own computers. So we probably would not known who each other were. The Spanish ruled with a pretty tight fist. Hand in hand with the church they kept a pretty tight rein on things! My family on my dad's side would have agreed. My G-Grandfather was one of the last Civil Governors in Cuba, until Geneal Weiler took over. He was most assuredly rooting for the Confederacy, and obviously against the war in 98. Once the Spanish flag came down in Havana, my grandfather (and dad) told me he closed his shutters (he was retired by then) and died a few months later.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,605 |
Fine, Rita Moreno was FAR better between the sheets anyhow  Sorry, I don't burn oil...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
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One thing that seems obvious to me, but hasn't been mentioned, is this:
If the States had been allowed to secede peacefully, it would not have necessarily ended the Union forever. Slavery, for instance, was a damned expensive way of raising cotton. Economic forces and technology would have done away with it a few years down the road.
Any threat from abroad would have been met with some sort of Alliance.The Union was formed originally out of necessity... strength in numbers.
Trade between North and South would have continued, but on more even terms.
The War was caused because self-perpetuation is the first rule of government and Lincoln followed it. His successors have doubled down on it.
This "Shotgun Marriage" was not necessary.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,605 |
Here is yet another question that gave my students fits in the post-bellum lectures:
Did the US military learn any lessons from the Civil War that helped them in the Spanish American War?
Were they more/better prepared for major military operations in the spring of 1898 than they were in the spring of 1861? Use comparison and contrast to examine this issue in detail. Yes, and no. We had no clue what we were going up against as far as advanced weaponry (bolt action rifles) and were still stuck in the musket era as far as infantry weapons. We had no clue how to do amphibious invasions. We still had no clue how to do light infantry assaults or use of unconventional tactics/combatants (RoughRiders figured that out, along with better weaponry). We had an advantage when in came to some assault tactics and especially in assaults on fortified defenses and use of trenches. However, this was essentially a draw with what the Spaniards brought to the table. By far, our greatest advancement and advantage was in the use of ironclad warships. We learned very quickly that wooden vessels were no match for iron clads and that proved decisive against the Spanish. Thumbnail sketch of a much larger and longer topic. This. Especially when you consider the number of Spaniards holding San Juan and Kettle Hills....
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,793 |
Everyone acts as though the South was some sort of backwater and weak sister that would have been ripe for European exploitation. Nothing could be from the truth.
Geographically, the South was far larger than any European nation. Economically, it was doing quite well in 1860. It was the third most industrialized nation on earth with the third most railroad after the North and Britain. In Europe of the day, France couldn't even manage imperial ambitions in Mexico. Germany, was nothing more than a collection of weak principalities. Spain? Already tottering on the edge of imperial collapse. Russia? In a state of revolution and near revolution for the last half of the 19th Century.
Only England and the North could have dealt with the South economically and militarily in 1860. The South dismembered by European imperialists? No, far more likely that the Caribbean and North America down to the Isthmus of Panama would be part of the Confederate States of America.
Last edited by JoeBob; 07/07/15.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,601 |
There is more to the French Intervention in Mexico than meets the eye.
Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
Another question that stumped the students on the Spanish American War.
What caused the Spanish American War to break out?
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
There is more to the French Intervention in Mexico than meets the eye. Yes there was.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
There was also another smaller conflict that broke out in 1900 that is often overlooked. The Boxer Rebellion.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
Here is yet another question that gave my students fits in the post-bellum lectures:
Did the US military learn any lessons from the Civil War that helped them in the Spanish American War?
Were they more/better prepared for major military operations in the spring of 1898 than they were in the spring of 1861? Use comparison and contrast to examine this issue in detail. Yes, and no. We had no clue what we were going up against as far as advanced weaponry (bolt action rifles) and were still stuck in the musket era as far as infantry weapons. We had no clue how to do amphibious invasions. We still had no clue how to do light infantry assaults or use of unconventional tactics/combatants (RoughRiders figured that out, along with better weaponry). We had an advantage when in came to some assault tactics and especially in assaults on fortified defenses and use of trenches. However, this was essentially a draw with what the Spaniards brought to the table. By far, our greatest advancement and advantage was in the use of ironclad warships. We learned very quickly that wooden vessels were no match for iron clads and that proved decisive against the Spanish. Thumbnail sketch of a much larger and longer topic. This. Especially when you consider the number of Spaniards holding San Juan and Kettle Hills.... and don't forget the German advisers and their Krupp cannon and Maxim guns.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530 |
Another question that stumped the students on the Spanish American War.
What caused the Spanish American War to break out? They sank our battleship.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,605 |
Absolutely. New technology in weaponry allowed five hundred (more of less) entrenched infantry to hold off thousands.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965 |
Another question that stumped the students on the Spanish American War.
What caused the Spanish American War to break out? The Maine reason is not the main reason?
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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