Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Varget in place of H335?

Loading up hunting loads for my .223AI with Barnes 55 gr TTSX

Best speeds are obtained thus far with H335 but I find it so temp. sensitive that I feel I should replace it. ( Don't belabor me with the stories of it being NOT temp. sensitive....)

IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 do not produce desired velocities with that bullet..

Varget looks like a logical choice, as does BLC-2, H4198 and H4895


What say you ex-spurts?

My first choice in the 223 with 50-65 grain bullets is TAC - hands down. But I'm also seeing very good results with IMR-8208 - just don't have lots of experience with it yet.

Iggy,
I found Varget to run best in my 223 (not imp) under 60 grainers, it was in the "crunch zone" under VM 55s at 26.8 grains. I had to charge and vibrate everything before seating at that load or I would get vertical stringing. Too much work...I just like to pump and dump on the Dillon.
Never mind that Varget tends to granule-jam every once in a while when poured into 22 cal necks. Messy.

You might be okay with a little more room in the Ack case, but I'm thinking because the TTSXs are on the long side, you might be crunchy in that 98-102 percent case-fill zone.

Because of that, I wound up going to H4895 under 55s but later found that 50s over 4895 was mo bettah.

I'll second what DD says. TAC is like 335 in meterability without the evil of temperature (which is why I left 335) -- I've done three other rifles with TAC loads at 50 and 55 depending on what the evil owners gave me to play with, and it was easy peasy to get good results. My feeling is TAC is much like 335, responding well to how hard a 55 pushes back against the gas column.

That is, IF you can find some TAC. I still have not seen any in over two years.

If looking for a temp insensitive powder and wanting to stay with Hodgdon, why not Benchmark instead of Varget. Benchmark will be closer to H335 in terms of burn rate and there are no worries about a compressed load.

With a cup and core 55gr bullet in .223, 25.0 gr of Benchmark should stack holes....Work up to it.

Ingwe,

A couple years ago I decided to whack a couple with a .223 and 53 grain TSXs. I have never been able to get past the limited capacity of the case with Varget, even though Varget is by far my favorite powder for here in bigger calibers. I liked BL-C2 best and didn't have problems with it down to below 5 degrees F. TAC worked as well, but I just liked BL-C2 better in my workups, got a little better speed. TAC would have given me close to equal speed, but the rifle liked a little less a lot better. Both were quite a bit better than Varget speed wise, but I doubt if it would have mattered all that much at under 200 yards.

Tom,

You've already used TAC some, and it's just as temp-resistant as Varget or any of the other Hodgdon Extremes.

It's been reasonably available both in stores and on the Internet for most of this year. You've just got to be quick on the draw. If you keep checking websites you can pick up an 8-pounder for less per pound than it can be purchased in stores, even with the hazmat fee.

I replaced 335 with Benchmark and never looked back. Still shoot 335 once in awhile just for giggles.

ingwe

Varget has never worked very well with lighter bullets in the 223 AI in my experience

Tac and Benchmark are the ones I would be looking at. Both are great but I have came to prefer benchmark for 55 grainers and below and tac for the heavier bullets. Benchmark is the faster of the two in burn rate and I personally feel it works better with the lighter bullets, also It's an extreme powder and I've had it keep good manners from the upper 90s to 20 degrees or a little lower.

Either will serve you well

Thanks for all the input guys! I have some target to try...no TAC available at present, but I might also do the BLC-2 thing...


Gonna try them one at a time....though I can't find any Benchmark either....


Good info, thanks again!

H-4895, TAC and AA 2015... 2015 is perhaps the most under rated 223 powder for std weight bullets. And it is available

AA2495 is another good one. IMR 8208 is worth a look also

I shoot a lot of AA2015 in FF 223imp loads as it seems to work well to form cases with great accuracy

Sorry to be the one to tell you, that Temp insensitivity is NOT a universal property. Denton has already tested Varget Vs. H335 in the 223. Varget is much more sensitive in that application.
Bl-c(2) is different from H335 on a technicality of "as-built", but is the same recipe.

Wasn't it later stated that the Varget tests in the 223 were before he started the barrel cooling/ammo cooling phase of his experiments?

I say buy some decent powder you cheap fugk!



Travis

He mentions that in this article here:
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/Pressure%20Factors.pdf

However as this paper also shows, which does control powder and barrel temp; the end result is that it is application specific.
Also confirmed here, FAQ#7
http://www.accuratepowder.com/faq/

Tom,

I can pass on after playing with AR Comp, which was a solution to having RL15 loads on Government contract not work so well for high temps in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East....

It has worked VERY well for accuracy and also for not being sensitive for high temps as I have been over at the range running loads at full max according to load data in afternoon temps from 103 to buzzing 110 this past week...

its performed like a champ all across the board...I just ordered four 8 pounders of it recently... but a retired Marine Buddy begged me to let him buy two off of me... so I'll be replacing those soon....been ordering it out of Powder Valley...

I've always used Benchmark for the most part with 50 to 55 grain bullets. I have used TAC and AR-Comp as well never quite got the accuracy with those powders as Benchmark gave me then I tried LT-32.Accurate LT-32 seems to be available everywhere right now and It is proving to be the cats azz with lighter bullets in the 223. Great accuracy and velocity and it meters excellent.

Yeah, both LT-32 and LT-30 are also great powders. Am still finding new applications for them. Turns out LT-30 also works very well in the .17 Hornet.

Must confess I am a little baffled by how many people still choose to use very temperature-sensitive powders these days, when there are so many good temp-resistant powders available. There are very few places where temperature remains fairly consistent all year round.

You are no help whatsoever.

Go back to Poland you internet bully!

Soooooooo to get speed out of the Barnes and temp insensitivity....before I start spending $30 per pound to try what are my tope three choices?

Im thinking Varget, H 4895, and TAC if I can find them....

Mr. Ingwe. I'm sorry for my rude reply yesterday. I found a bunch of Elevator IPA yesterday and I accidentally drank them all. My behavior was altered accordingly.

I use H4895 in two different .223's. With both the 50gr V-Max, the 53gr TSX, and the 50gr. TTSX. I have achieved fine accuracy and have not experienced any dramatic shifts in speed or performance due to temperature change.

I trust you'll find this information a bit more helpful.



Your friend,
Travis