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Thanks gnoahhh.
I have done a bit of reloading in my years, but have never "shortened" a factory bullet. How does one do that?
Saddlering, you mentioned filing the tip down a bit. How, by hand? If so, that does not sound very precise?

Thoughts?

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I make hardened file trim dies for the purpose. A couple of guys here use them. If you feel the need to do it, first hand file a few to try and see if it works for you. Use a mic or dial caliper to gauge yourself. (We're talking naked bullets here, not ones already stuffed in a case.)


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I just got my first 22 HP today. The bore is in exc shape. I did a chamber cast along with an inch of the throat. My groove diameter looks like .228+. I formed some 30-30 brass down and the final pass into the RCBS full size die left the shoulder about .003-.004 too long and the lever is just short of closing. So I will either grind about .020 off the top of the shell holder or the bottom of the die so I can set the shoulder back a little more.

I do have some new Norma brass so I am going to load and shoot those hopefully tomorrow. I will use the Buffalo Arms .228 60 grain bullets.

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I never had any luck useing 30-30 brass , might have just been me tho, get some 25-35 brass, one pass thru the 22Hp dies and your set to go, may have to trim to lenth.


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My 1-10 twist is not a factory barrel. It does handle the S&B ammo and Hornady 70 Gr bullets well. I never tried Norma. The S&B does not seem all that hot to me, but I do crack about 3 out of 10 necks when resizing. I always thought it was because the brass was to hard around the neck. Maybe not.

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Hmmm. That shoulder issue with re-formed .30-30 brass was never a problem for me. Could be a case of a minimum chamber + good tight headspace? Better to have that kind of problem rather than the other direction.

My all time favorite HP brass (for longevity) is stuff I formed from .30-30s, but it is a royal PIA to do that. .25-35 brass is the source of HP brass for me anymore. I sectioned a sampling of brass a couple years ago and found that the .30-30 brass was a tad thicker in the web than modern HP brass and .25-35 brass- but that is in no way conclusive due to the small sampling involved. Could've been a fluke.


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I ground the top of a shell holder last night and I took too much off, it let the case rim pull through on the press upstroke, oh well I have another shell holder to sacrifice so I will be more careful. I was able to get 1 piece of 30-30 through the die before the shell holder broke, the shoulder set back right where I wanted and it chambered nicely. The final 30-30 brass was 2.095 over all length. I thought this was interesting since I read where Gnoahhh and others said no trimming was necessary. Maybe it was due to my series of reforming stages. I started with a neck pass in a 7x57 die, then a full pass in a 250-3000 die, then 2 passes through a 22 HP die.

To Gnoahhh's point, my 30-30 cases measure .416 at the case head while the Norma cases are .410. My chamber cast shows about .420 diameter at the same point.

With the Buffalo Arms bullet my over all length to just touch the rifling is 2.635". These are slightly too long to fit in the magazine. What length do you guys use for rounds to fit and feed in the magazine? I also noticed I can get the fifth round into the magazine (empty brass) but can not close the bolt over it. Do you think I need to back off the rotor spring 1 notch?

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My buddy and I just did a bunch from 30-30 brass. He ran them through a set of 30-30 dies, then 250 dies, then 25-35 dies then the 22HP dies, and they came out nice. They even got Gary's thumbs up. He had trouble on the first couple he did, ripped the necks off the cases. He took the decapping rod out of the 250 and 25-35 dies and solved the problem. I can't use 25-35 brass because I don't have a 25-35. If I bought 25-35 brass, I'd have to buy a 25-35 rifle, to justify having the brass, and I'm still kind of broke from missing four weeks of work, Joe.


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I start by annealing the .30-30 brass, and go straight to the .250 die because I don't have a die in between. I run the cases in incrementally , wiping and relubing each time- with minimal lube- until fully "sized", so as to minimize oil dents in the shoulders. Then into the HP die, again incrementally with as light a film of lube as possible to minimize dents. A long drawn out process that takes like an hour to generate 20 cases, which would be dramatically lessened if I weren't too cheap to buy proper forming dies, or some other intermediate dies. Even then I can usually figure on losing 10-15% of the cases in the process.

I gotta trim the ones made from .30-30 brass because they do stretch a bit, but not much- I could probably use them as-is. I don't trim the ones made from .25-35s except to square up the case mouths.

The best batch of brass I have are some old Western .22HP cases from the 30's, I'm guessing. I took them out of a sealed box of 25 recently. They mic .418 at the head, and didn't stretch or swell one iota on the first firing. With annealed necks, I'm saving them for "special occasions", such as an upcoming tiger hunt, or the zombie apocalypse.

If I had to say one piece of advice for any .22HP experimentation, it wouldn't be about bullets or case forming techniques, it would be to throttle back your loads to extend case life. No need to run full speed and end up tossing cases after only a couple loadings. 2000fps bullets will punch the same size bullet holes in a paper target as the 2600fps ones do, and more often than not in smaller groups too.


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Just got back from the range. Using new Norma brass, the 60 grain .228 bullet and H4895
22.0 - 2498 fps SD 31
23.0 - 2613 fps SD 5
24.0 - 2742 fps SD 17

The case head expansion on the 24.0 load was about .415", the case was new and started at .410". Easy extraction, nice rounded primer, and no primer set back on any of the loads. The case shoulders (headspace) on the new unfired brass was 1.441" using the Hornady "A" bushing, after firing with the 24.0 they were about 1.460". Max in my gun is about 1.464 - 1.465. Groups at 50 yards with tang site were just under an inch. I imagine this will get better now that the brass is fire formed and after I experiment with seating depth.

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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Hmmm. Has anybody done that? With no ill effects? I can picture a lead core exposed at both ends maybe squirting out and leaving the jacket behind stuck in the barrel? Maybe farfetched. My imagination is working overtime this morning perhaps!


Seems to me that Nosler Partitions would be the ticket.


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Gnoahhh: I make no claims to being smart so please give me a hint as to where/who are the sources that make proper .228 bullets available. I have a Savage 1899 in Sav 22 Hi Pwr. The serial number says production would have been in 1917. The barrel in in good shape with the slow 1 in 12 twist. A chamber cast shows no real throat with 0.2315 grooves and 0.2275 lands immediately ahead of the throat (about an inch plus). The bore slugged 0.221 and 0.227 being noticeably tighter at the muzzle. Measuring lands at the muzzle shows 0.2232 (intersection with tapered plug). It is wearing the original sights so the best I can say is that factory ammo and handloads with .224 bullets shoot about the same. The Hornady bullets shoot about the same with the point removed with a pocket knife (that tracks with my experience that damage to the point is not nearly as important as damage to the base at short range). The receiver has been drilled and tapped for scope mounts but I have been noticeably unsuccessful at finding any that fit. Being as I am in the latter part of my eighth decade here I will post a more intelligible post on accuracy with different bullets at later date when I can see the sights and target a little better.

Last edited by John_L; 07/25/15. Reason: poor spelling and typing that changes the meaning
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Buffalo Arms sells 228 bullets, sometimes in the Class. on here. or gun shows for old Speer or Hornadys.


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What Saddlering said. Enough old Speer, old Sisk, and European-sourced 70 grain bullets show up around the internet to keep me interested too. Sometimes you have to advertise for them though.


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I just got 100 of the 60 gr .228 diameter cast from Montana Bullet works to play with.

http://www.montanabulletworks.com/224_Rifle.html

I've loaded 5 with some light 3031 loads from Pet Loads but had real issues with neck tension on some of the bullets. May have a solution but expect more questions soon!


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Try 7 grains Unique under that bullet. Move up to 10 grains if need be. I had excellent luck with that bullet. I don't have that mold, and the guy who was casting them for me quit the business. Good to know of another source. I guess I should break down and buy the mold.

PM me if you want to try some Lyman 228367s- another 60 grain bullet I like as much as that RCBS design.


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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Try 7 grains Unique under that bullet. Move up to 10 grains if need be. I had excellent luck with that bullet. I don't have that mold, and the guy who was casting them for me quit the business. Good to know of another source. I guess I should break down and buy the mold.

PM me if you want to try some Lyman 228367s- another 60 grain bullet I like as much as that RCBS design.


Was that 7 gr of Unique note for me with the 60 gr cast? I have some Unique here pretty sure.


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Yep.


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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Yep.


Roger that. I'll give it a try.

Long brass life plinking is where I want to end up.


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Should do the trick, I use it and like it! in my 22hps!


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