Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game 5 wolf packs in S.E Oregon????

I was talking to the vet today, who has a friend in Eastern Oregon, who said the S.E area of Oregon has 5 wolf packs!
The area isn't that rugged or vast. Are there any deer or elk left there? Is this true?

Have not heard about SE Oregon. But here in NE Oregon we have 7 packs of wolves. The Snake River pack the Imnaha pack, Minam pack, Chesnim pack, Sled Springs pack, Wenaha pack, and Walla Walla pack. And probably more wolves just not confermed breeding pairs to call it a pack. They are taking a toll on elk their main food source, in some areas.

SE Oregon is very rugged, remote and vast. HUGE expanses of desert, deep canyons, etc. The area called the ION (Idaho, Oregon, Nevada), south of Jordan Valley, and over towards Silver City and south towards the Nevada line is mostly roadless.

Yep. It is, simply, some badass f'kin' country.

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wolves/

This is ODFW's take on it. They have a lot of complex fooling around to do when it comes to defining a wolf pack or wolf depradation.

They also move the mark on paying reparations.

They do the naming game too. Calling the Canadian timber wolves they imported into NE Oregon Grey wolves is roundly criticized.

I usually hunt Wallowa and Union counties so I am more fmiliar with that area.

Are there any deer and elk left in SE Oregon? Populations seemed good last year but my number of visits is small. Mackay Sagebrush, 1 Minute and others would know way more. There are other things also.

I am unsure how areas should be defined as vast or not. To me it is pretty big country, Maybe not hugely mountainous but full of canyons and draws filled with boulders, few roads and fewer water holes. They could hide there pretty well and probably take advantage of the limited water.

Over 10 years ago I saw a Wolf just inside Idaho on the Owyhee river. A older lone Male was my determination. I had been seeing his scat for several days, then got a real good look at 600yrds through good glass. He was hunting the rims in an area with a good Snow shoe Population. I have cut Wolf tracks twice Off highway 31 in the area N/W of the town of silver Lake. In the Malhure River country I have Cut tracks and found a fresh deer kill site where multiple wolves completely devoured the deer in one meal. And the Local Ranch owner had seen a pair multiple times in the same area. The Wolves are in S/E Oregon, But 5 packs seams High. The Ranches Fly the country Killing coyote. The Biologists Know the wolf is out there, but keep it fairly well out of the public eye. The Upper Rogue watershed Pack has had its second litter of pups the year.

It doesn't get much "vaster" than SE Oregon. At least for lower 48 country.

Much vaster than I originally thought.

Yeah isn't it funny how the Oregon wolf got all that attention as being this lone wandering wolf, that suddenly ends up with a mate in SW Oregon near Lake of the Woods, where there are no wolves. Had one wanderer which they were tracking like a mofo, and now all of a sudden he finds a receptive mate in an area with no other wolves.

What a freakin' coincidence. He found another wolf in a wolfless area. What are the odds? Don't suppose he had some help finding a mate do ya? Nah, that would be underhanded, and probably completely illegal. Who would do such a thing?

One thing's for sure, now I gotta carry one more piece of gear when coyote hunting that I'd rather not. Anybody know what the lightest weight shovel is?

No, I don't. It is **possible**, but it is not a necessary explanation. There have been wolves here all along, just not officially recognized.

Two were killed by the gov't trapper on the Winchuck River behind Brookings in the early-mid 70s that had not ever lived in captivity per their dental condition. That was written up in the Curry County Reporter.

I saw (lets leave it at that) one on the south side of the Umpqua between Elkton and Tyee in the early 1990s.

I saw one cross I5 at the Sunny Valley exit just north of Grants Pass in the middle of the night in '87 or '88.

One of the other 'fire members told me of seeing a pack near Powers. I think he said they were on a cow carcass, probably one they'd killed, but I can't swear to that.

Wolves are not the oddest thing in our woods. I think I found a grizzly track in the upper South Umpqua 2 years ago. Best explanation I have for it. Too narrow across the heel for a bigfoot track, way way way too big for a double-stepping black bear. Not many options left with those removed.

Tom

To date, I'm not aware of any documented resident wolves in SE Oregon. We have tons of elk, but deer are down slightly probably due to 3 successive drought years.

Yes, I bump into folks all the time insisting they saw 9 or 10 wolves on this ridge or that mountain just "you pick the day." I'd personally attribute most of these to a collection of coyotes when they're lucky enough to score a deer or happen upon a dead cow. Without a bit of time to observe behavior or tracks, I'd be hard pressed to bet a paycheck on a short duration, long range wolf/coyote sighting. Coyotes, ravens, magpies, and vultures do keep an eye on one another, and when something of substance dies, they all show up. Yearling deer, elk, cattle, or pronghorn can be completely devoured in a single night with nothing but scattered hair remaining on site, and one can see 6 or 8 coyotes dispersing from such areas in the AM's. The heavier bones of older animals typically take a bit more time to consume or disperse, and a few days may be needed for such to be completely eliminated.

Our damage control officer has not taken any or received any complaints, ODF&W personnel are not see/hearing wolves on their fall/winter/spring census routes, stockmen are not reporting any losses, and our stock (cattle mostly but some flocks of sheep) are not exhibiting behavior changes typical of animals were wolves are present. Here's a link to a lay version of a recent study on behavior disparities in cattle.
Livestock wolf interactions link

Also, if they're about they are a very quiet lot. Cookie and I spend many nights out in both the desert and timbered environments around here and are yet to hear one. I've heard several in Alaska and Wyoming, so I do know what they sound like.

We've had a some pass through the region (both sightings and tracks), but they've kept going. While we do have vast expanses of empty country, those same expanses are typically devoid of big game as well. Coyotes do fine out here, but their diets are pretty much based on a variety of small rodents, nesting birds, ground squirrels, and when times are really tough, vegetable matter like grass and juniper berries. With the exception of some isolated pockets of big game, a number of wolves would have a tough time eeking out a living from a centralized home site or den.

Lastly, getting out and bouncing around the country is about the only past time we have out here. The third "S" in the famous "triple S" wolf management program is the most difficult to execute, and if one had been bagged by a local, the word would be out.

Smoke a pack a day!

I like S O S

OR, ID, & NV run together out there and between them, it's a plot of sagebrush bigger than a lot of states. A few wolves have been seen south of the Snake River in ID but they haven't really been an issue yet. It's such a big area that there can be a lot of wolves and still not be seen at all.

58gscott: Sad state of affairs for big game (Wolves migrating into an area!) and big game Hunters!
The transplanted Wolves DEVASTATED big game herds in many parts of Montana, Wyoming and Idaho!
And they have disrupted and significantly changed big game habits in many more ares.
Moose have also been decimated by Wolves in many areas where I Hunt Elk and Deer here in Montana and Deer!
The Wolves also predate on Bighorn Sheep.
NOTHING good comes from Wolf re-introductions and migrations in my estimation!
My family used to Hunt Mule Deer in eastern Oregon when I was child and a young man.
Back then (1950's and early 1960's) the Mule Deer herds were healthy and high in numbers (Coyotes were kept in check back then and NO Wolves then) - I have not Hunted thereabouts for a long time though.
If Wolves come the big game herds WILL suffer - its just that simple!
Thanks for NOTHING rmWf!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

There was a very good reason why we shot them off in the first place.

Game management by Washington DC and PC folks is a pretty poor idea.

Steve

There was a very good reason why we shot wolves down to low numbers. Left uncontrolled, they simply eat their way through our game populations.

Game management by Washington DC and PC folks is a pretty poor idea.

Steve

According to some members of the fire, shooting wolves doesn't help the situation.. To my mind, every dead wolf is one less.. That can't be bad!!!SOS!!

It's not game management and never has been. From the start the intro of wolves has been designed to reduce game animals to unhuntable numbers. It's just a very effective anti-hunting program.
This isn't just my opinion. They've said so themselves.

Tinfoil hat firmly secured...I do believe that the govt doesn't want a citizen population that can self sustain, by hunting and farming. This just supports my belief. SOS...then S.

It makes more sense than other scenarios and is consistent with the govt's desire for us to be dependent on them.

I truly believe that you guys are RIGHT.

Steve

There are wolves there -always have been .
I lived near boise in 07-08 and predator hunted down there a lot -I called in a wolf early one morning .
Talked to a few old time trappers -ranchers -people who have lived there their whole life. No doubt about there being wolves in the region . I have seen their kills -mule deer and antelope only -seen their tracks all over the region by walking as much as 12+ miles in a day while predator calling.
I have seen this topic on this website before and will repeat what I wrote before -there are wolves in California by now -probably have been for many years.
I measured the mileage using google earth from sw idaho to ne california -about 275 miles as the crow fly's -so why wouldn't wolves be there.
They are in colorado -nevada -utah -new mexico -arizona .
The wolf worshippers and the gov't are liars -they have an agenda and are working towards it 24/7/365.

Unfortunately I agree with your assessment. I didn't start out life with this way, but the dots are so clearly marked it's impossible not to connect them and look at the picture that's revealed.

I don't blame the wolves for being wolves. But I DO blame the people with thinly veiled agendas who are using them as tools for the demise of our game mammal populations.

And not to completely hijack the thread, but since you've already got your tinfoil in place, I'd encourage you to research fluoride. It's industrial waste,(and scary schit) that's enjoyed a strong 70yr PR campaign.

SE Oregon contains some amazing country.

Idaho, and possibly SE OR, has had a small wolf population since time began. Under the Endangered Species Act, they should have been protected and propagated. Instead, the introduction program totally ignored the ESA and brought in a different subspecies that have bred the natives out of existence.

Wow, thanks Larry for those pics!

So ignoring the ESA and introducing a different species, the Govt did also expose their real agenda.

Years before the introduction got going, I read an article from one of the anti magazines that outlined their plan to use large predators to reduce game animals to unhuntable levels. It took them another 10 years go get enough of their people in places of power to get it done then all hell broke loose. I didn't keep the article as proof because I thought it was nonsense. I've kicked myself ever since because so many don't believe it's what they're doing.

3 years ago I did the spike only general tag in the Imnaha unit where we normally found elk. we had an overnight snow which helped to track animals in the area. We went about 200yrds from my truck when my friend said that looks like a big coyote, I said that is a wolf! Well it had a radio collar on it, which was the alpha female. She stood on the road for about a minute then walked up the hill out of sight. We both looked at each other in amazement, when I spotted a black wolf skirting below us and coming up behind us also sporting a collar, the alpha male. We stood back to back not knowing what was going to happen. Then another wolf came up in front of us and stood on the road about 30yrds away. The 308 Norma Mag was at the ready. The alpha female started howling for the pack to gather and they left. Of course we cut tracks of a bull kicking up snow as it was probably being chased by the pack. A well known bow maker in the county hunted the Wenaha unit for elk most set ups he called in wolves, and once was surrounded by wolves. He was not one to pack a pistol but said he would from now on. He spoke to other hunters in the unit and their story was the same, wolves every where. I talked to a biologist here and we talked about the impact on the herds in our area. He said the elk are there, they just go elsewhere to avoid the packs. No kidding the elk will go elsewhere! And the wolves will follow! That's why the wolves are chasing elk in every game unit in Wallowa County. Sorry for being long winded, but it is frustrating as all get out. Nuff said.

Trap em and turn em loose in downtown Portland.

Grew up there. Actually northern Nevada, but same same. You could walk for days and never run into civilization. Shooting Jacks and yotes in the sage everyday was just part of growing up there... Speaking of Wolves in Or. my hunting partner told me someone found a wolf track in our elk hunting area and that's pretty close to the Washington line as well... I didn't believe it, but he says they were pretty damned serious with their claim..

I remember back in my youth hunting up around timothy lake guys were "seeing" wolves hell had some friends swear they saw them. Someone got to doing some research and what they were seeing were those hybrids that were all the rave back in the day. Well those folks in good ol Portland realized hey these damn things are a handful lets go release them back into the wild. Well that's what people were seeing I guess the poor pooches didn't survive long up their without their bowl of dog food. I also heard there are brown bears up in the Jefferson wilderness area too had some Indian buds swear to it but I suspect they got into some of grandpa cough medicine and were seeing big ass black bears.

I know too many serious hunter and timber workers that have been consistently seeing them since the 60's. They were either never eradicated, or a decent number of high breds have been around for a good while.

They've been in Jefferson in decent numbers since the middle 90's.

I have seen and snuck up on Grey Wolves in the Imnaha in
1975 on a mating pair of Grey Wolves. It was early in the morning and I heard them growling playfully. And I quietly
snuck up on them. I was only about 30 ft from them when I spotted them with their beady eyes looking at me. Then they
run and disappeared in the trees. It was quite a sight at
that close to see. Momentarily they stared at me just as I
stared at them. I can still see them today and wish I
would have had a picture of them.

I couldn't see how to edit my post.
So I'll reply.

These were a Mating pair of Silver Grey Wolves.
Back when they were supposed to be extinct.
So it really was important then.

The grey wolf introduction was totally illegal because they bred the natives out of existence. The ESA was intended to protecte them, not killed them off.

There is incredible country allover E Or. Should check out the Steens in SE Oregon

Very remote area

These were Silver Greys and were long before
any reintroduction of wolves in the area.
So they were already there as native to the area,
and were not extinct at all.
I had seen wolves before but not the silver greys.

I'd seen wolves here in Idaho before the introduction, too. It just shows that the feds had an agenda and the laws protecting the species were totally ignored.

Vastness is all subjective. Oregon-Nevada border.

Lil' Owyhee last week. Lookin' East.

Looking West.

I have Picture of the same area. Did you find the Juniper log cabin? Or the Cabin built into rock by Corral, Rock house in bottom of canyon. Interesting country

Nope, just blasted through looking around, Whitehorse 1 Antelope tag. Quick scouting trip, two days and 1000 miles. No wolves but sprayed lead at a couple already educated coyotes in the vicinity. Drove home in the evening, saw several more coyotes, one up in the Silvies Unit met his maker, he was young and dumb and it cost him dearly. Wife did the initial spotting and again when he came back out of the tall grass cover; Pretty much the pinnacle of our marriage!

Here's a shot looking "into" Oregon.

Even the roaded areas out there are very remote and get little use. For example, the NV part is where that couple from Canada a couple years ago believed their GPS and took off through Idaho into NV. They slid off the road and got stuck in some snow. The man walked for help and it was over a year before a hunter found his body. The woman stayed with the van where some hunters found her still alive 7 weeks later. That's not a whole lot of traffic.

I'd like to get over there and look around. It's so far from anywhere even the buzzards pack a canteen and some lunch. I have an idea the fishing (down in the canyon) might be fun.

Tom

When I was scouting Sheep in the Lower Owyhee, I had a flat. I (foolishly) only had one spare so decided I had better interrupt the trip to get a new tire. It was 186 miles one way (to Burns). Les Schwab was just getting ready to close. They didn't have an extra rim to give me 2 spares so I bought a new set of the toughest 10 ply that they had. The lava rock was wicked in places but no more tire problems.

We got back to my area well after dark. Jack Rabbits were like something out of an Alfred Hitchcock movie. I had my .22 Ruger pistol with an UltraDot on top. We shot Rabbits half the night. Aftrer the Sheep hunt I went back to the area a few times for Jack Rabbits -- but the next year they must have gotten Plague because the population plummeted. Wonderous Country.

What year was that? Back in the early 70's, we had a jackrabbit plague. They were collapsing haystacks by eating their way under them. The road kill looked like a windshield after driving through a swarm of bugs. Then the population collapsed that winter and they never have come back in numbers even remotely like that.

We had great JR hunting in 2006 and in '07 in waaay SE Oregon (Lower Owyhee Sheep Unit). In '08 they were mostly gone.

I've hunted JRs near Plush since the late 70s and the population plummeted in that area in the mid-late '80s. We still go there to hunt, but it's never got back in population to where it was.

In 1980, I started hunting Mule Deer near the Mid - Owyhee River. At first, Jack Rabbits were thick but were hard to find by the mid-80s, also.

Since the 70's, they've done a lot to increase the populations of raptors. I think they keep the rabbit numbers way down. They have that National Birds of Prey area east of Boise where they've greatly increased the numbers of several species.

We saw/shot lots of jacks the summer of '06 in NW UT. About 1.5 hrs from Burley. Next year they were largely gone. I think my best day that year was about 75-80. We went pretty regularly for about a month...

Neither wolves nor jacks might be in that area before long. There's a real cooker going out there now, over 400 sq miles last I heard. We're buried in smoke 150 miles east of there.

There's a long article in today's Bend Bulletin talking about making the whole area a National Monument.

Even back in '06 it was "under study" as a possible wilderness area.

Part of the Idaho section is wilderness now, the Owyhee River Wilderness.

A Wilderness full of Beef is not much of a wilderness.

I've hunted Whitehorse.. plenty of dirt roads... not paved....

The SE corner of the state is awesome! plenty of coyotes to boot...you're definitely out in the wilds...

I can believe there are wolf packs in there... there are more wolf packs than the State's Fish and Wildlife will admit to...

I think they prefer to keep it listed as endangered...

They wiped out my spots in NW MT in the Fisher drainage. I hope they move into areas with more food...biologists studying "their" wolves...

Wolves wouldn't do well in most of Nevada. Bigger critters are too few and far between. If they would wipe out the FERAL horses some call "wild" horses, I might welcome them for a while.

CA proudly answered today that some Oregon Wolves have made it down there. They are waiting on DNA to confirm they are from the Oregon packs. Idiots there were reasons our grandfathers killed them. Now antis are happy not because they go sight seeing or they care about wolves Its because it will be another nail in huntings coffin

Spot on! What they can't do at the ballot box they do under some kind of reintroduction of an apex predator. Not hard to figure what they are up to.