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I finally got an order off to starline for some brass. I have kind of attachment to 38.40, as it was the first handgun i ever fired at about age six, a colt bisley saa, belonging to my father which i still have. It has inscribed inside the grip it killed a grizz in mexico, and it did work in killing a guy on whiskey row in the 30's.
I think the last time it was fired was circa 1955 or so. My father did carry it as a cop in prescott.
I finally bought a ruger convertible to shoot 38.40. I was cleaning up some 50's vintage ammo, that had some green on the casings, and white on the lead jacketed softpoints, and thinking it's fully the equivilent of the .40s&w.
The .45colt has stayed with us, you would think the 38.40 would be more popular than it is.
I haven't wanted to shoot this ammo, as it was with the gun just short of two boxes from my dad's time, but am gonna load up the new brass for the ruger.
I did have a colt collector guy tell me those colt bisley's in 38wcf were quite popular at the turn of the century. Over even the mighty .45colt.
Last edited by RoninPhx; 07/16/15.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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.38-40 was the original 10mm.  Shot flat; hit hard.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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I was looking at a 38-40 in a pretty good Colt New Service this morning.
Got to shoot one a few years ago. The really cool thing about it was not only the low recoil, but the low muzzle blast as well. Factory ammo is apparently loaded to current 40 S&W levels, which isn't bad at all. Should take much to push it a bit.
Have fun. E
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I was looking at a 38-40 in a pretty good Colt New Service this morning.
Got to shoot one a few years ago. The really cool thing about it was not only the low recoil, but the low muzzle blast as well. Factory ammo is apparently loaded to current 40 S&W levels, which isn't bad at all. Should take much to push it a bit.
Have fun. E Was that before or after your conviction and restoration of firearms rights?
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Tracker
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Hey Ron, glad you are able to get some brass.
Had to google a pic to see what that round looks like.
What bullet weights would you load for it?
Sure looks like a fun one....
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i knew shrapnel would post some pictures to make me drool.
My bisley's are shorter barrel versions.
I probably am going to stick with a standard 180 grain bullet, as i cast that for .40s&w, easy one to use.
At about 900fps.
When i shot my dads at six, i thought the world was coming to an end. It was close to dark and a big ol fireball came out of it, scaring the dickens out of me. My brother in law told me one time they were driving up in the mountains in a model a truck, front window was cranked open, and my dad saw a deer in front of him. One round right through the open window, dead deer.
These 50's western bullets are interesting too. Big hunk of lead on the top, with a jacket.
I have the original western holster for that one, the leather has been cut out around the trigger guard area to get a hold of it a little easier.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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a lot of people would be surprised how expensive those grips are to replace, being a hard rubber that over time kind of grows to the gun. Hard to find a set, harder even that fit.
Another bisley i bought did not have the original grips.
Took be about three years and a lot of searching plus 200bucks to get the right ones.
It's a blood gun too, used by an indian in oklahoma to shoot another indian. The son of the district attorney there at the time sold it to me.
needless to say, that lever and that lightening are pretty special. My dad had a winchester in 38wcf, but evidently it was stolen before i came around. I think he carried both of them when running cows.
Last edited by RoninPhx; 07/16/15.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campground owner where I hunt out of is a retired Pa. state trooper and CAS. He has a Colt SAA and a 24 or 26" octagon Winchester 92 that he always used. I shot them once with his CowGirlAction loads and it was like shooting a cap gun...very accurate though...
Would like to have a Winchester 92 in .38-40 one day but it isn't high on my wish list...just something I hope to come across...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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The last four digits of my father's phone number, for at least 60 years, were 3-8-4-0, so I guess it's been foregone that the cartridge is of great interest to me.
Of course, his brother's phone number is 3-8-4-4, so old Smiths interest me, too......
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I have a couple of customs, one on a 4" M28
And the other on a 4 5/8" old Ruger Flattop. Both shoot great and I really enjoy the round. I also have one of the Ruger Buckeye Special convertible that I bought many years ago and still yet to shoot it.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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I have a couple of customs, one on a 4" M28
And the other on a 4 5/8" old Ruger Flattop. Both shoot great and I really enjoy the round. I also have one of the Ruger Buckeye Special convertible that I bought many years ago and still yet to shoot it. Sell that one. They bring stupid money. They shoot well, but are an immortal bitch to feed and clean. Take the proceeds and get a GP100 bored appropriately.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Kahuna
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now that is another good looking rifle, unfortunately i don't have.
As to the buckeye special, when i bought mine it had the 38.40cyclinder, the 10mm hadwent missing. Ruger was kind enough to make and serial number a 10mm to my revolver.
I haven't fired the 38.40 through it, but have the 10mm.
a 200grain slug with the old norma load is cooking right along with that long barrel.
I have the new 38.40 starline bench on the workbench. It's gonna get put together sometime this week.
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I also have one of the Ruger Buckeye Special convertible that I bought many years ago and still yet to shoot it. [/b] Sell that one. They bring stupid money. They shoot well, but are an immortal bitch to feed and clean. What makes you say that? Could you be more specific what it is about them is difficult? Is it the relative scarcity of brass / bullets or are you saying there is an issue with getting cartridges into the gun? What makes the .38-40 buckeye special any harder to clean than any other blackhawk or any other .38-40? I'm curious about this because I've verbally committed to buying a very slightly used Buckeye Special. Since I've owned easily 4 dozen Ruger single actions and my very first handgun was a Colt SAA in .38-40, I'm having trouble finding a factual basis for your statements unless there is something specific to that combination of .38-40 in a Ruger that is somehow ... different ... than .38-40 in general or Ruger in general. So, 'splain, please? Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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I also have one of the Ruger Buckeye Special convertible that I bought many years ago and still yet to shoot it. [/b] Sell that one. They bring stupid money. They shoot well, but are an immortal bitch to feed and clean. What makes you say that? Could you be more specific what it is about them is difficult? Is it the relative scarcity of brass / bullets or are you saying there is an issue with getting cartridges into the gun? What makes the .38-40 buckeye special any harder to clean than any other blackhawk or any other .38-40? I'm curious about this because I've verbally committed to buying a very slightly used Buckeye Special. Since I've owned easily 4 dozen Ruger single actions and my very first handgun was a Colt SAA in .38-40, I'm having trouble finding a factual basis for your statements unless there is something specific to that combination of .38-40 in a Ruger that is somehow ... different ... than .38-40 in general or Ruger in general. So, 'splain, please? Tom Whatever the combination is between the ways the cylinders are cut and the cartridges involved, the two that I've messed around with have been a ROYAL PITA. Cases sticking, heavy buildup that just didn't want to come off well, and just a pain. Now, that could have been a fluke of two, but it was what it was. Oh, and both factor fodder and reloads (not mine, so I couldn't attest as to what the loads were).
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Ok, thanks. I appreciate the info. I'll have to watch for that. Assuming the guy does sell me the gun.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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I hope he does. They are a blast!
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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I was looking at a 38-40 in a pretty good Colt New Service this morning.
Got to shoot one a few years ago. The really cool thing about it was not only the low recoil, but the low muzzle blast as well. Factory ammo is apparently loaded to current 40 S&W levels, which isn't bad at all. Should take much to push it a bit.
Have fun. E Was that before or after your conviction and restoration of firearms rights?
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"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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that price makes me happy, about double what i did mine for.
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Sticky chambers can be cleaned up.I have a Colt 38-40 that some of the parts were changed to make it safe to fire smokeless in it so it has two different serial numbers,with the newer one being a 1906 era or so. I also have a Marlin 94 in the same chambering from about the same time frame. The problem with some of those early Colts was that they were made with .406 bores as that was also a popular cartridge back then and it being so close to .401,Colt stuck them on. The Buckeye Special has a true .401 bore . I have had no problem getting Starline brass, but one needs to watch out for the older balloon head brass and not load that very hot. The problem comes with cast bullets unless you cast and load your own. I am sure there are other vendors,but Dardas Cast Bulets will sell .402 or .403 sized and lubed bulets,but they are a little hard. I have a problem with my .406 bore as it needs a bigger bullet, but unless I get a special mold, I am kind of screwed. Then too, the throat is .401 and anything bigger gets swaged down anyway. So this old gun will only shoot about 3" groups at 15 yards and it shoots high and to the left about 3 inches each at best. My best load has been 180 gr cast bullets and 7 gr of 2400 which shoots best in my relined Marlin .401 barrel ![[Linked Image]](http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj250/vmautino/DSCN0846_zps5e42479d.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj250/vmautino/gunstocks/38-40_zps416bd6a5.jpg)
Last edited by saddlesore; 08/07/15.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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I didn't know that on the early bores, i am going to have to check that for sure.
my dad's ol pistol as i have posted on here before has an inscription scratched inside it with a mans name, southern az. city, circa 1914 and where it killed a grizz two shots in mexico. I have been leary of getting it worked on, the ratchet at the back of the cylinder is worn, and it doesn't line up properly. Need to get it fixed but don't want it screwed up. The other one has a story behind it too coming out of oklahoma.
Sure like that rifle. There is a winchester somewhere up in the bradshaws in a canyon in the caliber, slipped out of my dad's saddle holster in the heavy brush. circa the 1920's. Tried to find it 50years later but no luck. As a kid he always said how much he hated loosing that rifle.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Sticky chambers can be cleaned up.I have a Colt 38-40 that some of the parts were changed to make it safe to fire smokeless in it so it has two different serial numbers,with the newer one being a 1906 era or so. I also have a Marlin 94 in the same chambering from about the same time frame. The problem with some of those early Colts was that they were made with .406 bores as that was also a popular cartridge back then and it being so close to .401,Colt stuck them on. The Buckeye Special has a true .401 bore . I have had no problem getting Starline brass, but one needs to watch out for the older balloon head brass and not load that very hot. The problem comes with cast bullets unless you cast and load your own. I am sure there are other vendors,but Dardas Cast Bulets will sell .402 or .403 sized and lubed bulets,but they are a little hard. I have a problem with my .406 bore as it needs a bigger bullet, but unless I get a special mold, I am kind of screwed. Then too, the throat is .401 and anything bigger gets swaged down anyway. So this old gun will only shoot about 3" groups at 15 yards and it shoots high and to the left about 3 inches each at best. My best load has been 180 gr cast bullets and 7 gr of 2400 which shoots best in my relined Marlin .401 barrel those grips are about the same as it took me quite a few years and about 200bucks to get. The guy i got them from said they tend to mold to the gun over time, hard to find a new set cause of that reason. About the same vintage. The colt collector head in arizona told me the 38wcf was popular around the turn of the century with lawmen, and often used around the territorial prison at yuma. How things don't change given the s&w 40. I might add got an email from a friend back in nebraska this morning talking about a colt delta elite a friend bought, blew up on him discharge down the magazine, had it fixed did it again both with factory ammo. This was in 10mm. I was telling him of running 200gr xtp's out of the blackhawk with the 10mm cyclinder with chrony'd velocity in the mid 1300's. Worked fine for me. that finish is pretty good for that vintage, i don't see them like that very often.
Last edited by RoninPhx; 08/07/15.
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if you are familar with those old bisley's, one other question. On my dads gun, it won't hold on the half cock. Always wondered about that and the reason why.
It's an interesting ol piece, the holster dates back to the turn of the century, and leather has been cut away to expose the trigger guard/trigger.
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as i sit here and think about it, as a young kid i don't remember a lot of bolt action guns, other than milsurp rifles like the 1917, 03, or the kraig. But i do remember a lot of lever actions. I think the levers were popular because they rode good in a scabbard . One of my other projects is a turn of the century 38.55 winchester take down, that i need to slug the bore and shoot it. I finally fixed the loose buttstock.
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I hope he does. They are a blast! It came home with me last night. It's almost NIB, had less than 2 boxes of .38-40 through it and no 10mm.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Wow. I need to sell mine.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Holy sheetballs! Who wants to buy mine???
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I love to send those links to my wife/daughter. particularly after i tell them what i paid for one a few years back. The comeback is when are you gonna sell? After my death, guarantee a replacement husband will be at the door. Or friends wanting to help out.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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i loaded some 38.40 for the first time today with no particular problems, bullets .402.
They fit just fine in a turn of the century bisley.
They would not fit in a buckeye blackhawk ruger.
I don't have any pin guages, but with my micrometer it looks like both the 10mm and 38wcf cylinders are undersized to .398 of .399. I think it's going to the gunsmith.
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I went down and talked to a rather well known gunsmith that is a guru on early colts. He suggested that i could have a broken trigger/hammer on the early colt. The discussion that buckeye special came up, his comment being it would shoot factory ammo but probably would be an issue with reloads, which i have found out it is. Answer is to have it reamed, and maybe a few other things. For what it's worth. I think both are going in to him to have the work done.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Holy sheetballs! Who wants to buy mine??? Think I'll just stick to my S&W 610 
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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I have two WCF38's, oldest is 1890, sent to TX, carried by a Deputy US Marshal in TX and OK, ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/jbmich/Colts/006_zps2c36feb0.jpg) The other dates to 1920, sent to the Browning Brothers store in Utah, I shoot this one. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/jbmich/Colts/005_zpsd22b4cd3.jpg)
Last edited by jbmi; 08/20/15.
"The older I get, the better I was"
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Nice, Shrap. But, you didn't show your newest USFA 38-40 Lightning...  DF
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I have two WCF38's, oldest is 1890, sent to TX, carried by a Deputy US Marshal in TX and OK, The other dates to 1920, sent to the Browning Brothers store in Utah, I shoot this one. now they look familar, plus the ammo which i have the same stuff. one of the bisley's has been needing repair for years. I have not done that because of the connection to the family and not wanting to risk issues with a gunsmith. But i think i got the right guy and need to get it done before it passes to the next generation. both of my bisley's have law enforcement backgrounds. what's with the pabst blue ribbon beer? You been hanging around with kaywoodie?
Last edited by RoninPhx; 08/21/15.
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i shot both of those old beasley's yesterday. They were minute of pop can out at 25 and 30 yards. A hoot to shoot.
not much roll in the hand or recoil, not a lot of flash, but they were shooting pretty good .
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The other dates to 1920, sent to the Browning Brothers store in Utah, I shoot this one. Dammit, I love that photograph.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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[quote=jbmi]
what's with the pabst blue ribbon beer? You been hanging around with kaywoodie? I KNEW kaywoodie had to be a brother of mine.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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That's what makes it such a good round. Little recoil, or blast, but solid performance. Coupled with a fine handling gun, it's a great combination. E
Last edited by Oheremicus; 08/24/15.
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I had both of the revolvers shot by son in law. I was telling him about this guy up in montana, and we were discussing how i could be included in his will. We went shooting at a little place outside of prescott. We were within a mile or two where i first officially got lost rabbit hunting with my dad, and not coming back to the truck under after dark. And the educational experience i recieved shortly after.
Just down the road was a place near a ranch where in the 1800's a group of yavapai killed 8 or so white people.
they are doing the same thing today, but it's at the casino.
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i got back the cylinder on that buckeye special 38.40 today.
I had taken it in to have the throats opened up. They said it was so tight, now corrected, that they had trouble getting the pilot for the reamer in. Makes one wonder why ruger would ship a gun like that.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,124 |
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,503
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,503 |
Nice, Shrap. But, you didn't show your newest USFA 38-40 Lightning... DF You mean this one? ![[Linked Image]](http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/rifles/DSCN1989.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/rifles/DSCN1990.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/rifles/DSCN1991.jpg)
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
I was thinking of you yesterday shrapnel. In legendary guns is a little room where the regulars sit to debate the world.
The walls are covered by ulberti's, and the display cases the pistols. Many many cool guns. I kept imaging what your gun vault must look like with the real deal.
I was looking at one a lever octagon barrel in something like 45.110 that barrel must have been an inch or more across.
I did see what looked like a new or very lightly used winchester lever in .375 winchester for about 850bucks. Which actually is i think a pretty good price.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,503
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,503 |
I stop in there whenever I am in Phoenix. They do have more junk than I care to look at, but once in awhile they do get a jewel. William, Larkin, Moore has a real nice gun room, I try to get there as well as Cabelas. Last time I was there, another Campfire member offered to take me to Dillon, as he knows Mike and the crew down there. I had another appointment, so I didn't make that trip. Next time I am down, maybe.
I plan on going down again in November to drive a NASCAR. We will see how well they really run...
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
I stop in there whenever I am in Phoenix. They do have more junk than I care to look at, but once in awhile they do get a jewel. William, Larkin, Moore has a real nice gun room, I try to get there as well as Cabelas. Last time I was there, another Campfire member offered to take me to Dillon, as he knows Mike and the crew down there. I had another appointment, so I didn't make that trip. Next time I am down, maybe.
I plan on going down again in November to drive a NASCAR. We will see how well they really run...
if your friend knows mike, i would sure say get to dillon's and you should get the grand tour of the warehouse, there is some real fascinating stuff kept in there. not just guns, but planes too. The reloading equipment thing is just one part of the business. I live only about 15minutes or so from the site.
Last edited by RoninPhx; 09/01/15.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,897
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,897 |
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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