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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1
New Member
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OP
New Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1 |
I am getting ready for my first Designated Marksman Match. I have been told to expect 2MOA steel targets between 50 and 650 yards from field positions. It is a time plus penalties scoring sytem. One visible hit on steel scores. I intend to use Lapua Scenars for the match but I am starting from scratch with them and will need to verify the drop every 50 yards and make a data card. I only have 200 of them and will need 100 for the match.
I will load using a 2 step sizing method to reduce runout. Starting with a Lee collet neck sizer THEN a Redding body die. Hand prime, weigh charges, and seat bullets with a Forster Ultra seating die.
So I have;
-Remington Sendero in .308 Win (.6-.7 MOA with standard RCBS dies and the old 155 PalmaSMKs using Varget)
-PT&G bottom metal with Alpha Type II Magazines (ten round) Allows a max OAL of 2.950"
-200 new Lapua .308 cases
-200 155gr Scenars
-1000 old style 155 Palma MKs
-Plenty of IMR8208xbr
-Plenty of Varget
My questions are about reloading but if you have any other tidbits of wisdom related to shooting, wind, gear, or preparation, PLEASE include them. Here Goes.......
1-Should I full length resize the new brass, load some SMKs using an old recipe, and fireform them while practicing my field position shooting and then develop a Scenar load?..... OR is there a preferred method for working up a minimal runout load with my new brass? I want to use as few of the Scenars as possible in my development.
2-A reliable source has indicated that CFE223 is another good powder choice. Can someone rate the 3 powders in terms of fastest velocity to slowest velocity for a below max load?
3- Which powder would be more appropriate to use? I need to settle on one and develop with it due to the limited supply of Scenars.
4-Given that I can load out to 2.950" what OAL or "base to ogive" length should I consider as a starting point?
5-Is there anything different that you would do?
6- Is anyone scratching their head and asking, "Why doesnt he just use the SMKs, those are big targets." ?
Thanks in advance for any and all responses
Warmest Regards, Joe
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
I am getting ready for my first Designated Marksman Match. I have been told to expect 2MOA steel targets between 50 and 650 yards from field positions. It is a time plus penalties scoring sytem. One visible hit on steel scores. I intend to use Lapua Scenars for the match but I am starting from scratch with them and will need to verify the drop every 50 yards and make a data card. I only have 200 of them and will need 100 for the match.
I will load using a 2 step sizing method to reduce runout. Starting with a Lee collet neck sizer THEN a Redding body die. Hand prime, weigh charges, and seat bullets with a Forster Ultra seating die.
So I have;
-Remington Sendero in .308 Win (.6-.7 MOA with standard RCBS dies and the old 155 PalmaSMKs using Varget)
-PT&G bottom metal with Alpha Type II Magazines (ten round) Allows a max OAL of 2.950"
-200 new Lapua .308 cases
-200 155gr Scenars
-1000 old style 155 Palma MKs
-Plenty of IMR8208xbr
-Plenty of Varget
My questions are about reloading but if you have any other tidbits of wisdom related to shooting, wind, gear, or preparation, PLEASE include them. Here Goes.......
1-Should I full length resize the new brass, load some SMKs using an old recipe, and fireform them while practicing my field position shooting and then develop a Scenar load?..... OR is there a preferred method for working up a minimal runout load with my new brass? I want to use as few of the Scenars as possible in my development.
2-A reliable source has indicated that CFE223 is another good powder choice. Can someone rate the 3 powders in terms of fastest velocity to slowest velocity for a below max load?
3- Which powder would be more appropriate to use? I need to settle on one and develop with it due to the limited supply of Scenars.
4-Given that I can load out to 2.950" what OAL or "base to ogive" length should I consider as a starting point?
5-Is there anything different that you would do?
6- Is anyone scratching their head and asking, "Why doesnt he just use the SMKs, those are big targets." ?
Thanks in advance for any and all responses
Warmest Regards, Joe 1.) Load with Scenars. Don't resize initially. 2.) Use a max charge of Varget 3.) Use a max charge of Varget 4.) Get as close to the lands as possible. If you can touch the lands, even better. 5.) I'd buy 1,000 more Scenars and I wouldn't bother with a 2 step sizing method. 6.) No. The Scenar is UBER. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 937
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 937 |
On your virgin brass, first try the brass in the chamber of your rifle and see if it fits. A little resistance will be a good thing. If it does fit, just resize 3/4 of the neck with a FL die or Lee collet die to straighten out the necks.
If it doesn't fit, bump the shoulder back only until the brass just chambers in your rifle and you can still feel some resistance. You will once again need a FL die or body die for this.
Next take the bullet you want and load it a little too long so it just chambers in your gun and the lands will push the bullet back into the case. You should have nice square land marks on the bullet. Take a measurement and try this length first at different powder charges. That should be all you need to do. Good luck.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 798
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 798 |
For the last year I have been using 4064 in mine with Lapua brass and secnars. They are extremely consistent and obviously very accurate. I have tried CFE and Varget but the 4064 is way more accurate in my rifle. I use a max load of 46 gr with a Fed 210 standard primer, the rifle likes them loaded .015 off the rifling. my velocity is 2900.
Bill
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,904
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,904 |
Max charge of Varget. Seems like someone said that already..
Lapua brass,155 Scenars close to the lands if you can but a bit of jump works fine in my rifle.
CCI BR primers, I have tried FGMM's and they don't do as well for me.
Last edited by davidlea; 07/07/15.
Golden............
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,258
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,258 |
What match, Woody's DMM? Shoot me a PM, I'm an RO there.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,353
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,353 |
R15, kiss the lands, load up to max pressure and rock the [bleep] out of your load.
Varget is probably just as good. Don't make it tougher than it actually is.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,156
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,156 |
Or mebbee jump, whatever your rifle prefers... beyond pop popular belief, not all rifles like a "kiss"....
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 13,000
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 13,000 |
I've found, in more than one rifle, that a .020" jump gives both good accuracy and fast, consistent feeding. Any reason why you're set on Scenars? They're a a great bullet but you only have 200 of them. Why not run the Sierra's and practice more ahead of the match?
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804 |
Also getting a kiss in a factory Remington 308 chamber may not leave much bullet shank in the case.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804 |
If it's an honest .6 to .7 MOA rifle*** with the Sierra, given that it's a factory barrel and chamber I'm not so sure the Scenars will produce a miraculous improvement.
*** Meaning you can plunk down and record five shot groups of .65 moa (+/- a very small amount) on demand, over and over.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,336
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,336 |
So I have;
-Remington Sendero in .308 Win (.6-.7 MOA with standard RCBS dies and the old 155 PalmaSMKs using Varget) The devil you know...
It ain't all burritos and strippers my friends...
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,258
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,258 |
Since you didn't PM me, shoot the load you have that is producing sub-MoA. Use the rest to practice shooting alts and getting a handle on wind. The number of stages vary, as does the need for pistol, but plan on 100 rounds of rifle and 50 pistol. You will probably break time on at least one stage so if you or your partner start suffering from a case of,"can't miss fast enough" then come off the gun and let your partner shoot unless stage rules dictate otherwise.
Who are you shooting with if you are shooting at Woody's?
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,679
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,679 |
If Varget wasn't good....the US International Palma Team wouldn't have used it! And there's NOTHING wrong with the Sierra 155 gr. Palma bullet.
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,123
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,123 |
The 155 Scenar is a good one. Starting with a Lee collet neck sizer THEN a Redding body die.
2-A reliable source has indicated that CFE223 is another good powder choice. Can someone rate the 3 powders in terms of fastest velocity to slowest velocity for a below max load?
I've always run the body die first, then the LCD. Not sure if it makes that big of a diff tho. If you're looking for top speed, check out Alliant's AR-Comp and 2000-MR.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,507
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,507 |
Use the Litz listed BC for the 155 Scenar. You'll be alot closer out of the gate.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,102
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,102 |
Since you didn't PM me, shoot the load you have that is producing sub-MoA. Use the rest to practice shooting alts and getting a handle on wind. The number of stages vary, as does the need for pistol, but plan on 100 rounds of rifle and 50 pistol. You will probably break time on at least one stage so if you or your partner start suffering from a case of,"can't miss fast enough" then come off the gun and let your partner shoot unless stage rules dictate otherwise.
Who are you shooting with if you are shooting at Woody's? KP's right but if your using 100 rounds at Woody's (somewhere around 30 rifle targets total) your doing it wrong. You can't miss fast enough. Slow down, get still & make the shot count, in the end it's much faster. If you are shooting at woodys, your much better served shooting a known load & spending the time shooting instead of in load development off the bench. MAKE SURE you have a good solid dope chart out to 600. Use other time to practice with those bullets on minimal supported rear positions such as: off walls (wall of terror type), roofs, angled 2x4, suspended chain, wire spool, through the windows of vehicle or off hood etc. Might get to lay down on boat simulator, top or inside back of van, or even on ground but all those are pretty easy prone shots. Carry a rifle shooting under 1MOA, a good rear bag, a bi-pod & and maybe a pump pillow or pack for support. Make good shots & communicate with your partner, & keep yourself from doing stupid chit & you'll be way up on most the crowd.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Gun might be .75moa gun, what do you ad to that?
Yes you can buy points sometimes, but you have to be at the top of the game to do it generally.
I'd run the SMKs and shoot a LOT before the match...
And I would not worry that much about anything else.
My service loads were consistently around .5 moa or so. With irons the rifle easily held the X ring, MOA, the 10 ring was 2moa total and I rarely was ever out of the 10 ring, this with a 223....at 600...
Shoot SMKs and roll on... if you can get 1000 Scenars and want to spend the jack, thats cool too, but time on the gun, is more important than impressing everyone that you missed with UBER bullets.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,956
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,956 |
I like 47 g varget, cci 250, win brass and a 155 scenar. It'll shoot 1/2 moa from my old model 7 stainless. It shot well in my t3 superlite too. Play with the seating a little bit I've had a .010" change bring it right together.
Bb
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