Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Some gunsmiths are not allowed to be called gunsmiths.

I think South-Africa must have some of the worst gunsmiths in the world. I have never gotten a rifle back from any gunsmith around here and was 100% happy. If they do not mess up the job they were suppose to do I will at least get a rifle back with a few new dents in the stock.

The story I would like to share with you guys and my latest experience was a simple bedding job that took 3 months after I returned it when I spotted a little issue.

I had a rifle re-barreled and action trued by this gunsmith and while doing it I asked the guy to bed the action as I did not have a lot of time when the job was done and though it would nice to get the rifle back ready to shoot. The re-barreling and action work was done by an external company that has a great reputation but does not deal with the public and the reason why it was done through 'my' gunsmith.

When the job was completed I shot the rifle and got some very impressive groups but also groups that was double the size. After going through the rifle checking for possible problems I noticed that the bedding was not stress free. The barrel moved when the front screw was fastened and loosened.

I decided to send it back to the gunsmith instead of bedding it myself as I already paid for it. The gunsmith then had it for almost three months and said he does not understand what is going on as he just cannot bed this rifle stress free. He tried bedding it two more times and still could not do it stress free.

I then asked him in a phone call whether he uses the action screws to tighten the action down when bedding the rifle as it might be the cause of the problem if he tightens them down too much. He then said he always uses the action screws and it has always worked for him. I recommended using long guide screws with elastic band to press the action down into the compound instead of pulling it down with the action screws, but he said he has never heard of this and has been doing it for 30 years and know what he is doing.

I decided to collect the rifle as I could not wait longer. Again the stock looked like crap but it is another story. I then took the rifle and bedded it myself on Friday. I bedded the rifle exactly as I recommended him doing it by using elastic band and guide screws. To no surprise the action is 100% stress free, there is absolutely no movement when tightening or loosening the action screws. the bedding in the tang area tapered heavily towards the front indicating that he removed plenty of wood in that area and that only a very small part could have made contact in the rear.

Anyway, this guy is a qualified gunsmith that has been practicing for 30 years and he could not fix this stupid problem.He wasted my time and money and I could not believe that guys like this can actually qualify as gunsmiths.

Maybe it is a problem among South-African gunsmiths, but I am tired of dealing with gunsmiths around here. Guess that was the last time I send a rifle for bedding to any gunsmith

I think the gunsmiths around here should visit a few gunsmiths in the US and see how things should be done.

Pieter

We have our share of gutter balls posing as gunsmiths here in the US, some could screw up a wet dream.

Yes we do. That's why the majority of my gun work gets shipped off to gunsmiths with good reputations. There aren't any near me that I'd trust. A good gunsmith that will do a quality job in a timely manner is worth his weight in gold.

I have an excellent gunsmith, Fortunately he is younger than me and will certainly outlive me, so I am worry free. I am too old and decrepit to actually do any real gun smithing anymore, so I am grateful for his friendship and his craftsmanship. I hope that you can find someone just like him that will work for you.

BTW, I saw some nice work at a couple of shops in Namibia. If you can't find someone in the RSA, you might do an internet search for smiths up north.

This why i do my barreling and bedding myself

One will need walk on water credentials before I'd trust anyone else to bed a rifle for me. To me, it's the equivalent of having someone else zero the arm before I head out on a hunt. Simply not going to happen.

No screws used at all when bedding, and a bore-sighter and my targets suggest there's no stress induced at all as I subsequently tighten/loosen the screws.

There are lots of professionals that should not really claim such credentials.

The same could be said for some doctors, policeman, ministers, etc.

and mechanics....

Same here.. All those do is open up a big can of worms..

I have seen a couple of masters at work and a few who should be charged with a crime for picking up a screwdriver.

I have zero gunsmiths I trust around here. There is a good one in Mebane but he is crazy priced.

This is why I learned the trade

I once had a guy who told me he could improve the trigger on a new Browning Hi-Power I had. He got about four tries to do so and never got it right. He ended up having it longer than me and I ended up with a pistol that had a tougher trigger than the one it came with. I traded that Hi-Power off for a pre-war Winchester 94. Since then I've considered Hi-Powers to be some of the nicest pistol designs ever conceived but with the worst trigger system ever built. I feel your pain!

If the inletting is bad then a set of guide screws are needed.

But in 99% of the cases no guide screws needed and never used the action screws. I fill everything with clay, use wood shims to protect the action and stock and C clamp the action it to the bedding compound gently. just enough force on the clamps to bottom the action out nothing more.

And this right here is why I learned the trade myself well that and having no money to pay someone, Now that I can pay someone I don't because I don't trust them. Ask a few questions and get some BS answer, and walk away.

I fear that they would find little help. I've come to believe that the starting point is finding a "rifle builder"...not a gunsmith.

I've visited three shops in my area, I would only let one of the three touch my rifle...and the only thing I would let him do is trigger work. Simply amazing what he can do with a Ruger trigger. The rest...not a chance.

self declared master tackleberry gunshop gunsmiths with tacticool pocket pants.........................

plenty of them to be found all over the fugging country
my favorite question lately is asking em what is the difference between a 5.56mm chambered weapon and a .223 chambered weapon and what is leade


you wanna talk about a stump the dummy question and the stupid answers you get or don't get


alot of the AR selling "gunshop pros" around here look like fools when they tap dance around trying to answer and then you say "oh never mind it aint no big deal" and then wander away to look at something else

I have been left alone like I wanted to be by them after that

I guess it might be a problem all over then. Sometimes I hear the guys behind counters in gun shops around here and I think to myself, if this was my shop you would not be here tomorrow.

I believe in most industries the biggest problem is people just barely do enough in their jobs as they believe that is all they need to do. When people start doing their jobs with pride and real commitment then things start to change in the right direction. The problem is there is only a hand full of people that really takes ownership.

Pieter

You'll get no arguments from me on that one.

As a hobbyist (not professing to be a gunsmith) I've bedded a few rifles. I have had problems with the non-use of action screws or guide screws. The action screws necessarily have to go through the bottom metal, which has to fit into the stock inletting. If you just plop the barreled action into the stock/bedding, how to do ensure the actions screws will line up perfectly with the holes in the action? I had one rifle that I just plopped into the bedding and put some big rubber bands to hold everything together until it set. There was definately a problem with getting the screws into the threaded holes. Things were mis-aligned. Now consider round bottomed actions like the M700 - how do you know things aren't rotated? To me, by having the bottom metal in place and using the actual action screws you create a jig/template that ensures things are in alignment.

Threaded action screws...heavily waxed to prevent the bedding from sticking.. Works great for them 'round-bottomed actions'.. 'Nother reason to like the Winnies - nice, flat-bottomed receiver and a built-in recoil lug that makes them teeny Rem floppy lugs look like slightly stiff aluminum foil..

Piece of cake..

The problem is there is no internationally or even nationally recognized licensing body for gunsmiths. There is no testing or qualifications required. Any A-hole can hang out a shingle announcing to the world he is a "gunsmith". I have been a machinist since 1987 and am more than capable of doing many gunsmithing jobs but I would not dream of calling myself a gunsmith. To me a real gunsmith is an expert in machining and woodworking plus bedding and all the other parts of the trade. Perhaps that is why many specialize in stock work or metal work or whatever. It would take three lifetimes to be a master of every part of the gunsmith racket.

I blame the big box stores for this attitude. There they don't have to know the answer or even understand the question. I heard the classic response at a local big box sporting goods the other day. The clerk actually said, " I can't help you, I have ADHD." He then walked away.

As if incompetence were limited to gunsmiths. I can't seen to find a good doctor, dentist, mechanic etc. etc.. Most people just suck at their chosen profession, mostly because they just don't give a shyt and want to make as much money as they can as fast as they can.

It's kind of funny how simple the mechanics are on most guns, how tolerant the machining is, how simple bedding is and yet how hard it is for some to say "good enough" and let it out the door, yet so simple for others to overlook larger flaws.

You can have guild members, and you can have tacticool pants wearing punch pounders......but very few in between that deserve to be paid.

In regards to using screws or clamps for bedding, be aware that it only takes 3 inch pounds of torque to bend a Remington 700 action.