|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325 |
Has anyone on the forum ever killed an elk with PRBs? Caliber and loads? Range? Pics?
Thank you
Patrick
Last edited by PVT; 07/19/15.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325 |
Crud, screwed up the title. Hate autocorrect
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,190
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,190 |
You should be able to edit it.
Life is like a purple antelope on a field of tuna fish...
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
140 yards with a 54cal and 224gr round ball. Hit her higher lungs and she went 60 yards with a great blood trail on the brush.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325 |
Surely more muzzleloading hunters hunt elk size critters with patched round balls.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
you'd have to find a traditional muzzleloading forum. Be warned that they can be a bunch of real tight asses.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325 |
I've been reading that forum a little. Thank you.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,081
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,081 |
There was a time when sportsmen pursued the largest and most dangerous game in Africa with such guns. If your gut tells you that you are undergunned get bigger balls.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019 |
You could say the same about spears....
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325 |
Dan,
Good evening,
Simply trying trying to decide between a Lyman GPR and a GPH. I was asking for input from people that have had experience with PRBs and elk size critters. If you have such experience, your input would be appreciated. I think .54 balls are big enough.
Patrick
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
plenty big for elk. Keep your shots smart as with any other rifle out there and you'll be successful.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,081
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,081 |
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,166
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,166 |
Never shot an elk with a PRB but I've shot several whitetails with them and never had one exit. These are not big deer either, 60-110# dressed. Didn't instill a lot of confidence as far as using PRBs for bigger game. Maybe use harder balls?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
must be a wimpy load lol. My 58 travels through 2 feet of deer before stopping in the ham. An exit hole doesn't kill.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,232
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,232 |
Never shot an elk with a PRB but I've shot several whitetails with them and never had one exit. These are not big deer either, 60-110# dressed. Didn't instill a lot of confidence as far as using PRBs for bigger game. Maybe use harder balls? That's weird. I've shot 6 whitetails with prb's and haven't caught one yet. That includes one adult doe punched through both shoulders. My load is 75 grs. Goex fffg under a .490" Hornady swaged ball.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,081
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,081 |
PVT, just a thought, but it isn't the cartridge or caliber that makes the hunter, it's the jerk behind the trigger that makes it work. Ponder that for a spell.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325 |
PVT, just a thought, but it isn't the cartridge or caliber that makes the hunter, it's the jerk behind the trigger that makes it work. Ponder that for a spell. True
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 624
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 624 |
Dan,
Good evening,
Simply trying trying to decide between a Lyman GPR and a GPH. I was asking for input from people that have had experience with PRBs and elk size critters. If you have such experience, your input would be appreciated. I think .54 balls are big enough.
Patrick If you want a fast twist bore, buy a break-action inline instead. No moving action-parts exposed - more weatherproof - easier to ignite - no permanent/blocked breech....etc....etc.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,166
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,166 |
One, the smallest was a yearling doe I shot with a .45 Kentucky and 60gr of fffg real black. The others were using Hornady.490 swaged lead balls and 90gr of 2f Pyrodex. A couple were shoulder shots and one was perfectly broadside through the ribs.
None of them went anywhere but down, but none of them were 600lb bull elk either. Do as you wish, I was just sharing my experience using PRBs. Remember that elk are not only bigger they are heavier boned and IME much tougher.
And yes I would expect a .58 to shoot through a couple feet of deer.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
how the folks hundreds of years ago cleared the eastern forests of all elk and buff'ler with puny lead balls is a strange mystery.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,166
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,166 |
No mystery, they just shot another one if they couldn't find the first. Ever read the Lewis and Clark journal, specifically the part where they shoot the grizzlies full of holes and have hair raising adventures getting them killed? Grizzlies have much lighter bones than your average elk.
I'm not saying you cannot kill elk with a PRB, I know that scads of them have fallen to said projectiles over the years. As I said before, I related my experiences using them and why I hold a low opinion of same when compared with other projectiles.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
yeah and when you are [bleep] your pants & running at the same time, its normally not going to be a fatal shot
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
But really in truth, folks back then had to know how to shoot and how to place their shot. If you couldn't shoot, you went hungry. They didn't do those fancy long range shots that hunters today do. They learned how to stalk and how to make a sure shot on the game they hunted.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019 |
Never shot an elk with a PRB but I've shot several whitetails with them and never had one exit. These are not big deer either, 60-110# dressed. Didn't instill a lot of confidence as far as using PRBs for bigger game. Maybe use harder balls? That's weird. I've shot 6 whitetails with prb's and haven't caught one yet. That includes one adult doe punched through both shoulders. My load is 75 grs. Goex fffg under a .490" Hornady swaged ball. I've shot a few deer with a .490 rb and 80 grains of pyrodex. I hit one buck perfectly in the ribs, broadside at 30 yards. No exit, no blood, and he ran off 250-300 yards before he fell. Didn't find him until the next morning. That was enough for me to switch to conicals.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,232
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,232 |
I punched one broadside through both lungs with a 12 gauge Brenneke slug once and it ran 250 yards with no blood trail. Shot another through the lungs with 40 gr. HP out of a .22WMR and it only went 40 yards before it fell. That one exited too. There are no guarantees and the next .490 ball I put into a deer may very well not exit. I'm not going to lose any sleep worrying about it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 624
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 624 |
Truth be told, we just don't know. I too have seen deer drop using a 22 LR and another run away scot-free after being hit by Winchester 12 gauge sabot/slug. Strange creature those deer are. Seen another run dead for about 30 yards, right towards me. His eyes were dead as a door knob, then ran smack into a Oak tree trunk at full speed, the only tree in that wide open field. Guess I killed him twice....
Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 07/22/15.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019 |
I'm not going to lose any sleep worrying about it. Me either. That's why I use conicals.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019 |
...... then ran smack into a Oak tree trunk at full speed, the only tree in that wide open field. I had one do that once, but he ran into a Ponderosa Pine. Left it covered with blood, he was dead on his feet. Went back to where the shot was taken and there was lung tissue and blood blown all over the sage for 15 feet past where he was standing. Hit him with a 350 grain conical......
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,404
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,404 |
Not an elk, but a .530 ball with 85 grs. 3f Goex dropped this one where she stood. Ball went in the shoulder and exited in the rib cage. Go figure. (Davis triggers work well in a GPR)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,232
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,232 |
I'm not going to lose any sleep worrying about it. Me either. That's why I use conicals. And the next deer you shoot with a conical may go 250 yds. without leaving a blood trail, even if it does exit.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
This 300gr conical exited. Notice whats plugging the exit hole?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 80
Campfire Greenhorn
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 80 |
If you want a fast twist bore, buy a break-action inline instead. No moving action-parts exposed - more weatherproof - easier to ignite - no permanent/blocked breech....etc....etc. [/quote]
May not be legal for elk in some states, no exposed ignition.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
most muzzy companies now have break action inlines with #11 or musket cap ignition.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,017
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,017 |
To increase penetration with a roundball, Hornady made a ball called hardball out of harder lead. I don't know if it's still being made.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019 |
I'm not going to lose any sleep worrying about it. Me either. That's why I use conicals. And the next deer you shoot with a conical may go 250 yds. without leaving a blood trail, even if it does exit. You shoot em with what you want, I'm not telling you otherwise. I'll do the same. It's a whole lot more likely that a slow-moving 177 grain rb will do what you said than it is a 350-grainer will.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,232
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,232 |
Absolutely agreed. I'll likely find my deer anyways, exit wound or blood trail or not.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2
New Member
|
New Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2 |
Hi Folks, I'm new here but I've spent most of my life shooting black powder. I'll admit to being a traditionalist. There's a flintlock Northwest Trade Gun in 20 gauge hanging on the wall above me as I type this. Never owned an inline in my life and highly unlikely to do so at this late date. On the other hand, I say to each his or her own. I just thought I'd point out a couple of things about elk and PRB. First, traditional archers harvest elk each season with with an arrow. Their average shot distance is less than 20 yards. A properly placed PRB will be at least as effective as a broadhead. Second, while I've never been fortunate enough to hunt elk, my father was. He took five over the years and did so with a "measly" .45 caliber percussion long rifle shooting PRB. The range averaged about 50 yards. Three fell where they stood and none made it beyond 40 yards before piling up. I'll note that all were heart shots.
Hunting with muzzleloaders is all about accepting limitations. Put the bullet, be it round or conical, where it needs to go and you will have success.
Regards, John
Last edited by Stormrider51; 07/24/15.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947 |
Which state allows 45cals for Elk?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2
New Member
|
New Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2 |
Which state allows 45cals for Elk? This was back in the 1960's in Colorado. Regards, John
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
new mexico doesnt have caliber restriction for elk.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 325 |
Hi Folks, I'm new here but I've spent most of my life shooting black powder. I'll admit to being a traditionalist. There's a flintlock Northwest Trade Gun in 20 gauge hanging on the wall above me as I type this. Never owned an inline in my life and highly unlikely to do so at this late date. On the other hand, I say to each his or her own. I just thought I'd point out a couple of things about elk and PRB. First, traditional archers harvest elk each season with with an arrow. Their average shot distance is less than 20 yards. A properly placed PRB will be at least as effective as a broadhead. Second, while I've never been fortunate enough to hunt elk, my father was. He took five over the years and did so with a "measly" .45 caliber percussion long rifle shooting PRB. The range averaged about 50 yards. Three fell where they stood and none made it beyond 40 yards before piling up. I'll note that all were heart shots.
Hunting with muzzleloaders is all about accepting limitations. Put the bullet, be it round or conical, where it needs to go and you will have success.
Regards, John Well said.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019 |
Absolutely agreed. I'll likely find my deer anyways, exit wound or blood trail or not. Me too. But if you're referring to my earlier post, I will admit to having a hard time following a bloodless trail a couple hundred yards through an eastern hardwood forest carpeted with new leaves after dark.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019 |
Put the bullet, be it round or conical, where it needs to go and you will have success. A golden oldie and a truism, right up until the point where it doesn't work. For me it wasn't an elk, but a 160 lb deer. And it wasn't a .45 caliber round ball, it was a .50. And not at 50 yards but 30. I did put the ball where it needed to go though. Another truism you hear a lot from people who hunt elk is, if you're going to use a round ball, it's best to go with something bigger than .50 caliber.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,624
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,624 |
Morning folks , been a while . I have killed a lot of elk with PRB in calibers from 50-62.. Until the last few years where I just have not been able to get out , I took one near every year . But not every year was with a PRB . My wife also hunts and shoots PRB. So some years we took 2 elk with PRB .. I also hunt mule deer with PRB . . As others have said . Shot placement is key . But that holds true not mater what your shooting . IMO range is also a big player . Know your range and know the effective range of your load . In the end people lose big game every year shooting high caliber cartridge , muzzleloaders and archery. It happens we just try to not let it happen ..
Now what im about to say isn’t aimed at anyone specific . Just a general statement . Not very often do you hear someone say; ya I got a bad shot of and lost it . OR ; I just pulled the gun and I missed . In stead what we here is , and again doesn’t matter the system they chose to use But what we hare is ; I went right behind the shoulder . I took out both shoulders . I was a hart or head shoot but ??????? I never found the animal . Track it for 2 miles and nothing . that’s usually followed by , This caliber , bow , rifle , brand ……… is worthless . I always have to wonder about that because if they never found the animal , how is it they know exactly where the they hit it ? I been there and I have been one of those very people . I shot at a 6X6 bull on fall with a 30.06 . The bull want 35 yards from me walking broad side .I had him dead to rights , squeezed off and he dropped and got up all in one move . I got another round off just as he entered the treeline . There was no doubt in my mind that he was down . Perfect shot . A minute or so later a hear a couple shots just down the ridge from me where my hunting partner was setting .. Im thinking cool , we got to this morning . Well to make a long story short . Nope I didn’t get him . My partner did . My shot did noting by graze him high across the shoulder . How that happened , I still don’t know to this day .. IF , I had put the round where I thought I put it . He would have been mine . Simple fact was I didn’t . I would have bet with every least penny I had that I did ..
Anyway , get in effective range , place your shot . If you put the PRB where it needs to be , it will do the job just fine
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019 |
I always have to wonder about that because if they never found the animal , how is it they know exactly where the they hit it ? Not aimed at anybody specifically, but I recovered my deer.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,166
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,166 |
I always have to wonder about that because if they never found the animal , how is it they know exactly where the they hit it ? Not aimed at anybody specifically, but I recovered my deer. As did I, along with the PRBs I shot them with.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
I once shot a deer with a .270 at 40 yards which went down, got up and ran off, never found her. Had the same happen with 45cal maxi balls my first year muzzleloading. My brother with his .270 shot a buck, again, under 50 yards, went down, got up and never seen again.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,019 |
I once shot a deer with a .270 at 40 yards which went down, got up and ran off, never found her. Had the same happen with 45cal maxi balls my first year muzzleloading. My brother with his .270 shot a buck, again, under 50 yards, went down, got up and never seen again. Well, that solves that riddle. Captchee must've been talking about you.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
as Forest Gump would say. 'Ye neva know whucha gunna get.
|
|
|
|
568 members (1moredeer, 1beaver_shooter, 10gaugemag, 007FJ, 12344mag, 17CalFan, 60 invisible),
2,253
guests, and
1,195
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,111
Posts18,464,380
Members73,925
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|