24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 619
N
nick Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
N
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 619
Looking to try muzzleloading for deer in Illinois just for another hunt opportunity and something new for me to learn and shoot.
I've been reloading for 48yrs and I cast bullets and shoot two Trapdoors and a Roller in 45/70 and 50/70 with black powder and cast bullets.
T/C Impact fits my budget and seems pretty basic..any thoughts?
Most of my shots probably be in woods at 50yds but may have opportunity of 150yds more or less on edge of corn or bean fields, so I would probably scope it due to my old eyes.
Since I have pounds of black powder on hand I would want to try that rather than "substitutes" good idea or not?
The BP I have is mostly 2F ok, or might I need 3F ?
Not sure about casting a LEE REAL or something else and sticking it in a sabot.
If I went with "store bought" bullets kinda like idea of belted rather than a sabot? but don't have a clue
I like to shoot and experiment, so I know some of these questions will be answered by myself trying different combinations of bullets and loads but some advice will save me some money and time.
Any thoughts to get me going appreciated..thnaks

BP-B2

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
No experience with the Impact.

BP is fine, easy to light, but may require wiping between shots, especially with modern projectiles that don't use lube. The REAL may help with that, but will have a pretty loopy trajectory for 150 yard shots. BH209 will give you good velocity and burns clean. A 10oz jug costs about $35 and will give you about 60 100gr equivalent (70gr by weight) shots. Uses regular or magnum 209 primers only, not special 777 primers.

For longer shots, sabots or the Hornady 350gr FPB are probably the way to go, but even though I shoot a scoped inline these days, I still regard it as a 100 yard proposition, as I don't have a way to verify accuracy and trajectory beyond that nor a place to hunt where that's likely to be a issue. Someone else can help you with that.

If you want a quick and easy recommendation to get started with and have a good chance of success, I'd say: get a jug of BH209, some Harvester Crush-Rib sabots, some 209s, and some good 250-300gr .45 caliber pistol bullets. Hornadys are good, but a little soft for velocities over 1600. Barnes are great, a little pricey, but tough, accurate and reliable. There are lots of possibilities, but you have to start somewhere. Browse back on this forum for more ideas. Good luck.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947
O
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947
You might also want to look at the CVA WOlf in SS. Its roughly the same price as an Impact but offered in SS. T/C's sometimes have issues with full bore projectiles if the QLA is cut off center. The CVAs dont seem to have this problem.

I would avoid belted bullets such as PowerBelts. Barnes are about the same price and much higher quality.

REALs are ok but not the best choice for a 1-28 twist. It sort of depends how fast you want to shoot them. Dont push them too fast.

Mountain Molds and a few others offer far better options if you want to cast you own. I prefer conicals no lighter than around 400gr for a 1-28.

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
The various propellant companies have good data sheets on their products used with various projectiles. The BH209 site gives very specific recommendations for their product which has some limitations due to it's ignition and burning characteristics. It performs very well when used as designed. It also has application in cartidge guns.

BP, 777, or Pyrodex are probably the best choices for the REAL or other lead conicals as the BH folks don't recommend their use with 209.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 624
T
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
T
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by nick
Looking to try muzzleloading for deer in Illinois just for another hunt opportunity and something new for me to learn and shoot.
I've been reloading for 48yrs and I cast bullets and shoot two Trapdoors and a Roller in 45/70 and 50/70 with black powder and cast bullets.
T/C Impact fits my budget and seems pretty basic..any thoughts?
Most of my shots probably be in woods at 50yds but may have opportunity of 150yds more or less on edge of corn or bean fields, so I would probably scope it due to my old eyes.
Since I have pounds of black powder on hand I would want to try that rather than "substitutes" good idea or not?
The BP I have is mostly 2F ok, or might I need 3F ?
Not sure about casting a LEE REAL or something else and sticking it in a sabot.
If I went with "store bought" bullets kinda like idea of belted rather than a sabot? but don't have a clue
I like to shoot and experiment, so I know some of these questions will be answered by myself trying different combinations of bullets and loads but some advice will save me some money and time.
Any thoughts to get me going appreciated..thnaks


Your choice of Impact and real blackpowder is fine. Sabots work best in that T/C. Think of purchasing a couple varieties of sabot/bullets between 240 and 300 grain. Get a t-handle for the end of the your ramrod, in case loading shows some resistance going down your bore. Most popular 209 primers on boards like this one, are the Winchester 209s.

Need more help in other areas?....... just ask here.

IC B2

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,523
L
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
L
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,523
My brother has an Impact and it is a nice shooter. The CVA Wolf or Optima are nice guns for the price too. Your 2F will work fine. I have shot a lot of Lee REAL bullets out of a Renegade, but for the last several years I shoot saboted loads. To shoot on the cheap, the TC cheap shots work pretty well, but I prefer Hornady XTP bullets in Harvester Crush Rib sabots. The bullets come either 50 or 100 to the box and the Crush Rib sabots are 50 to the pack. The cost is less than buying over the counter loads, but if you don't expect to shoot a lot the Hornady bullet/sabot loads with the plastic tipped bullets are very accurate. I have not had good results with the CVA Power Belts. They are just not accurate in my rifles.

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 624
T
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
T
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 624
If purchasing bulk XTPs, the 50-Pk 240/300 XTP Mags are a tougher bullet than it's 100-pk counterpart 240/300 XTP regulars. They seem to hold together better at higher bullet speeds. The standard XTPs come in a host of other sizes..... 180, 200, 230 and 250s.

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947
O
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
If purchasing bulk XTPs, the 50-Pk 240/300 XTP Mags are a tougher bullet than it's 100-pk counterpart 240/300 XTP regulars. They seem to hold together better at higher bullet speeds. The standard XTPs come in a host of other sizes..... 180, 200, 230 and 250s.


The 240gr XTP mag is a 100 pack also.
http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.452-240-gr-XTP-Mag/

Im not sure why you would assume they are 50packs. All the 300gr XTPs appear to be in 50 packs.

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 619
N
nick Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
N
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 619
I appreciate the input.
I always enjoy the experimentation phase with a new rifle, and I feel the muzzleloaders have a LOT of experimentation to them.

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
There's sure a lot you can do with them. Besides the 300gr XTPs my sons used last year in my Knight, I've got Nosler 300gr Ballistic Tips, 250gr Barnes XPBs, and 350gr .458 Laser Cast to try out.

I also have a bunch of the 350gr FPBs that at .507 base diameter were too tight to load, but I ran them through a Lee .501 sizer and they seem to fit perfectly now.

I really like my CF rifles, but could get by very well with just the Knight if I had to.


What fresh Hell is this?
IC B3

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 624
T
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
T
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by Overkill45

Im not sure why you would assume they are 50packs. All the 300gr XTPs appear to be in 50 packs.


I'm not sure why you would assume I can find 100 pks of 240/XTP Mags. That's a package I never witnessed locally. The 50s seem to be everywhere here..... and no, I do not buy bullets I can find locally, online. All XTPs and other easy-to-find bullets I purchase locally

You sure are cocky BTW! Every reply you issue to me is from your arrogant city inside your head. Comments like your "I'm not sure why you would assume" comment is not necessary. All you need to say is "I found some of the 100s for you somewhere".
. I'll bet your dog is even tired of your sarcastic remarks to it.
Hey, But that's alright. I can return your smack pretty easy. Keep em' coming Bozo! One of us is here to help members here. You seem to come here to stir trouble. If you don't like what I write, either put me on ignore (or) learn how to reply to me, without the cockiness.

I want to play nice / be civil. Do you? If so, then prove it. Be helpful here, not cocky.

Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 07/25/15.
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947
O
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947
Never seen the 240gr XTP mag in 50 packs in any store or online. All 300gr are in 50 packs. Hornady doesn't even list them.

Got a link to these 50 packs or the 300gr XTP in 100 packs?

I suppose you still think the Lehighs are copper too. What a goof ball.

Quote
An excellent all-copper are the Knight Bloodline bullets, which I hear surrender the biggest blood trails.


Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
B
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
B
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Lehigh XP on the right is copper
[Linked Image]

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
Another premium bullet I'd like to try is the Swift A-Frame, available already sabotted or in boxes of 50 so you can roll your own. About a buck a pop, but are supposed to expand at low velocity, but hold together at up to 3000fps. They're pretty much a bonded Partition.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 619
N
nick Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
N
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 619
Whats the idea with the "crush rib" sbots? a better fit grab rifling?
Mentioned above says t/c 1:28 twist..is that correct?
Not sure how easy it would be to slug the barrel, if I remove breech plug would I be able to push slug thru or get rod in there to push slug back out?
Looks like there will be plenty of opportunity for experimentation for sure

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,523
L
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
L
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,523
The Crush Rib sabots reduce the force needed to load a rifle with a tight bore. I had a TC Omega that had a really tight bore and was hard to load on the first shot and really hard to load on the second shot. A young lady has an Omega that is so tight that she cannot load her own rifle. She is a country girl and quite strong.

Last edited by LeonHitchcox; 07/25/15. Reason: auto correct error
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
They're all I buy now. I haven't tried it yet, but some are able to use the CR with .458 bullets so they don't have to buy the special orange MMPs.

I usually buy them direct, as most local shops don't carry much stock and the one that does marks them up by a third.

You shouldn't have to slug your barrel for sabots; the TCs are designed around them. With my Knight, I don't need a starter for .452/sabot loads; just my thumb. Conicals are another matter. They need to be started straight to shoot straight. I use a 1/2" flanged spacer that looks like a top hat with the top cut out, to start the Hornady FPBs. Keeps them square to the bore. My starter tip is coned out to fit the point.

Last edited by Pappy348; 07/26/15.

What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,731
M
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
M
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,731
Most ML rifles are up to what you want to do. Particularly so when you are looking at saboted bullets. I wouldn't get fixated on a particular rifle just yet, there's a lot of variety out there and a lot of choices to get the most out and particular rifle.

2F will work fine. Scopes will help. Good scopes will help more, just like with CF rifles.

Personally, I have been messing with ML guns since the early 70s. I am now down to just two, and they're both rolling block CVAs (Kodiak Magnums), one stainless one blued. I now shoot only Barnes 250 grain all copper bullets in sabots. I shot four last fall with the Barnes and all four hit the ground dead and done. I prefer Blackhorn 209 powder and 66 grains by weight gives me about 1700 FPS with the Barnes in sabots and inch groups.

The reasons for those choices are simple. The RB CVAs are very quick and easy to remove the breech plug and clean them. The installation and removal of primers is quick and easy. The Barnes bullets are like the Barnes CF bullets I use. They just plain work and they make an exceptionally straight wound channel that rarely deflects at all, and the few that I have seen deflect have only deflected so little that it took some hard looking to be sure. BH-209 doesn't corrode the guns like real BP, it cleans easy. It doesn't make a crud ring and those things make second/third/fourth shots quicker and easier.

What you are looking to do will work fine. Maybe you'll like it better than what I do, maybe not. Find some people with them and check out their gear. Pfretty well every thing will work better than it did forty years ago, so you can't get real far out in the weeds.

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 619
N
nick Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
N
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 619
Well I been traveling around and trying to get my hands on as many rifles as I can, and think I narrowed my search to two. I like the T/C's fit and finish and they feel good in my hands. Still thinking Impact but maybe Triumph. I really like the hand removable breech plug on the Triumph. Not sure what else it offers for the extra 200 bucks?
I know it has aluminum receiver which I could take or leave, barrel 2" longer on Triumph. Not sure about trigger, I heard Triumph has good trigger, maybe adjustable?, so that may be different also.
Any more thoughts, before I fight thru the cobwebs and open my wallet?

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
I looked at the Triumph a while back due to interest expressed on this forum and saw some good reviews. The barrel quality is likely to be about the same. $200 will almost get you a Leupold ML scope, but the Triumph does look nicer. Another $200 will get you into an Encore FX, a dedicated fixed breech muzzleloading Encore. Or a Knight.

Gun-lust price creep begins to rear its ugly head!


What fresh Hell is this?
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
89 members (99Ozarks, 10gaugemag, 257robertsimp, akshooting, 15 invisible), 1,642 guests, and 751 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,728
Posts18,400,758
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.101s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9023 MB (Peak: 1.0612 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 08:14:23 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS