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JJHACK Offline OP
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I have been shooting a rage Hypodermic a lot lately. I've killed a pile of turkeys and other stuff with them now.

I find some faults with the design but there are faults with everything. It becomes a balance of total results and confidence.

There is one difficult to quantify part of the puzzle for me, which I think has so much to do with the way people react to the results. The two huge blades 2" wide can either miss an artery or slice it in half with the tip of the point at the same place. If the blades are a straight vertical you can miss important organs to the right or left. If that blade opens horizontal you can miss organs above or below.

For a 1-1/16" fixed blade you could miss by a hair and have the same results. I've killed a lot of big game with fixed head, primarily the Slick and viper tricks. Now I have shot a lot with the Hypodermic too. There have been none lost, all game recovered in 125 yards or less. So I have no way to be seriously critical of either camps view of mechanical VS fixed.

The shortest recoveries have all been with the Hypodermic, as have the best blood trails all been with the hypodermic. If I consider all game shot the average distance traveled and the blood trails are near equal overall. Blood flow when the Hypodermic exits are disgusting and vividly easy to follow. a fair amount less when they don't exit. However still very good, just not as really disturbing a crime scene!

I guess I'm still not convinced that the Hypodermic could have a failure to open or function properly. I sure have not seen this in 50-60 animals now. They work fantastic for me at 63-67 Lbs @ 28.5" draw.

The Slick trick magnums 125 grains are simply flawless and lethal with consistent performance and always seem to just plain work. I do not like them on Turkeys. they often blow through and stick in the dirt behind them. The turkeys are a PITA to locate when they can fly a short way and/or cross water or run. I've made solid perfect hits on turkeys that have gone a long way. Turkeys with archery are a great challenge!

With the Hypodermics I've never had a turkey go more then a few yards. That huge gash just ends a turkeys life as fast as can be.

The Viper tricks are 100% better on anything that is big ( 400-500lbs plus) and needs an exit hole. They are the best penetrating heads by a margin over the others I've used. I've shot clean through a lot of hogs now, some have had the luminocks go through so fast they appear as a miss at times. Except for the sound of the hair being cut on impact.

On Average the 125 magnums will poke out the opposite side, and sometimes exit all the way out. The Hypodermics rarely poke out the off side on a bigger male, they usually do on smaller hogs and sometimes have gone completely through and exit.

Still there is such an impressive blood flow from those Hypodermics that you can often see a fountain of blood spraying into the air when they run off. That just keeps me coming back to them where it's legal.


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Jim,
Have you tried the Hybrid broadheads? I have been hearing a lot of good things about the No Limit Archery Gravedigger broadheads. They have a fixed 1" blade and a 1 3/4" Mechanical.
Im going to give them a try on my upcoming elk hunt based on a reccommendation by a buddy, see how they do.
Just curious what you have heard or if you have tried em.

Kique


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JJHACK Offline OP
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I have not tried them.

I need to shoot a lot of stuff before I share an opinion. I cannot possibly kill enough stuff to play with every design.

I'm really a slick trick guy. Those and the Viper tricks are my go to heads to hunt with and would be my first choice for any difficult or expensive trip.

The Hypodermic was a choice I made to understand for myself the advantages of the mechanicals and the potential problems. I made this choice after doing the "administrative" reading and the study of the various designs made. This design opens the blades before they get to the skin. Unlike the Ulmer and the Schwacker which most people I've spoken to do not fully understand. The schwacker style design opens inside the animal, so it's simply a little hole on the entry side and quite often no exit when those big blades open inside.

There is plenty of marketing and sales pitch to sort through on all the designs. Read the reports or advertising and study it for yourself. My conclusion was that a 2" wide expandable does me no good without a 2" entry hole. The exit is often a disappointment because it's a core belief of mine that the exits bleed far more. No 2" entry, no point in an expandable in my opinion.

With the Hypodermic you get a 2" entry every time and they cause copious amounts of blood flow, I've even seen chunks of fat on the track while following the blood trails. They handle 60-70lb draw very good, and have never broken a blade. They have had the blades twisted beyond repair though. They shoot to 80 yards as good as a field point for me. With the sacrificial black plastic collars they have never opened on me while carrying or shooting. They have never failed to make that 2" entry cut in the skin.

Once the decision was made on which to try, I went all in and started shooting stuff. What I have written here is from my personal experience, not what I have read from others, and certainly not ( deliberately) repeating any marketing hype!


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Originally Posted by Enrique
Jim,
Have you tried the Hybrid broadheads? I have been hearing a lot of good things about the No Limit Archery Gravedigger broadheads. They have a fixed 1" blade and a 1 3/4" Mechanical.
Im going to give them a try on my upcoming elk hunt based on a reccommendation by a buddy, see how they do.
Just curious what you have heard or if you have tried em.

Kique


Send 280Ack a PM, he's an avid shooter of the Gravediggers. I tried them last year based on his recommendation, but they don't fly quite as well for me as the Slick Tricks do. The difference is very minor, but I could see it.

I found no draw backs in the design or the operation for East Coast hunting, and carry one in the quiver to try. I just haven't had anything in range when I had the Gravedigger loaded.

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Most of my friends shoot mechanicals...mainly Rage. I've heard no complaints and seen no real malfunctions. Obviously, a larger cutting channel means more friction, and bones cause them more problems than smaller blades, but you're not "supposed" to hit big bones anyway. The biggest advantage of a mechanical is the ability to be shot (relatively) straight from a high speed bow that may not be tuned well, or has critical imperfections on release. Neither are a concern for me and I will stick to my fixed blades.

I like punching shoulders.


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My dad always shot fixed blade broadheads, mostly because mechanicals weren't popular yet. Why try and fix something that isn't broken? His PSE was set at maybe 50lbs and I never saw him lose a deer. I think some guys think that they can take marginal shots with an expandable when they wouldn't with a fixed blade. The extra "wound channel" is a crutch.

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The Grave Digger is one heck of a head. They fly true. They do nasty damage. And they will always cut. I still run slick tricks just because. But I'll have a couple grave diggers in the quiver as well. So far the only victim has been a bobcat that I killed 2 yrs ago. Shot him right in the keester. The grave digger basically cut the cat in half. Just like someone holding it by its back legs and hitting it with a machete


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Most of my friends shoot mechanicals...mainly Rage. I've heard no complaints and seen no real malfunctions.


I've had good terminal experiences with the Rage heads, however, I did receive two new packs that had defective cutting blades on the point. The blades had been stamped, but never finished with a cutting edge.

You could see the flat edge from the stamp all of the way around the blade.

Fortunately, they were a Cabelas purchase, and easily exchanged.

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I have always preferred fixed three blade Thunderheads with my compounds and fixed two blades Magnus Stingers with my Long Bow.


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Originally Posted by JJHACK
I have been shooting a rage Hypodermic a lot lately. I've killed a pile of turkeys and other stuff with them now.

I find some faults with the design but there are faults with everything. It becomes a balance of total results and confidence.

There is one difficult to quantify part of the puzzle for me, which I think has so much to do with the way people react to the results. The two huge blades 2" wide can either miss an artery or slice it in half with the tip of the point at the same place. If the blades are a straight vertical you can miss important organs to the right or left. If that blade opens horizontal you can miss organs above or below.

For a 1-1/16" fixed blade you could miss by a hair and have the same results. I've killed a lot of big game with fixed head, primarily the Slick and viper tricks. Now I have shot a lot with the Hypodermic too. There have been none lost, all game recovered in 125 yards or less. So I have no way to be seriously critical of either camps view of mechanical VS fixed.

The shortest recoveries have all been with the Hypodermic, as have the best blood trails all been with the hypodermic. If I consider all game shot the average distance traveled and the blood trails are near equal overall. Blood flow when the Hypodermic exits are disgusting and vividly easy to follow. a fair amount less when they don't exit. However still very good, just not as really disturbing a crime scene!

I guess I'm still not convinced that the Hypodermic could have a failure to open or function properly. I sure have not seen this in 50-60 animals now. They work fantastic for me at 63-67 Lbs @ 28.5" draw.

The Slick trick magnums 125 grains are simply flawless and lethal with consistent performance and always seem to just plain work. I do not like them on Turkeys. they often blow through and stick in the dirt behind them. The turkeys are a PITA to locate when they can fly a short way and/or cross water or run. I've made solid perfect hits on turkeys that have gone a long way. Turkeys with archery are a great challenge!

With the Hypodermics I've never had a turkey go more then a few yards. That huge gash just ends a turkeys life as fast as can be.

The Viper tricks are 100% better on anything that is big ( 400-500lbs plus) and needs an exit hole. They are the best penetrating heads by a margin over the others I've used. I've shot clean through a lot of hogs now, some have had the luminocks go through so fast they appear as a miss at times. Except for the sound of the hair being cut on impact.

On Average the 125 magnums will poke out the opposite side, and sometimes exit all the way out. The Hypodermics rarely poke out the off side on a bigger male, they usually do on smaller hogs and sometimes have gone completely through and exit.

Still there is such an impressive blood flow from those Hypodermics that you can often see a fountain of blood spraying into the air when they run off. That just keeps me coming back to them where it's legal.


JJ, thanks for the write up and analysis. How big of an animal do you feel comfortable with using the hypodermic? Is it something you would use on say moose and elk? I tried the Rage heads a few years ago but found that they would constantly open up on me when I was moving around. I shot one coyote with them and failed to get a pass through, which kind of soured me on them.
Have you had a chance to use the Exodus heads at all? I've used the Slick Tricks(standard and Mag)for several years and been pretty happy with them, but found the Exodus shooting just a bit better and quieter for me.

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I've killed several deer with grim reapers and they've been wicked, no complaints at all. I'm going to be hunting elk this fall and using qad exodus for that, but for deer sized game the grim reapers have worked spectularly well for me.

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I shot a small hog Saturday afternoon with a Grim Reaper (3 blade). She was quartering away at about 25 yards. The shot was a little high with with one blade getting the top of both lungs and another severing the spinal cord. She fell in her tracks and died after about five puffs of dust, the arrow fletching sticking straight up. The broadhead stopped just under the skin on the off side, after exiting the rib cage. I was not very happy about the 470 grn arrow (at 270 fps) failing to fully penetrate the 60lb sow, but on the other hand, I suspect my usual Slick Trick would have barely got the lungs and missed the spinal cord. No doubt this would have resulted in a long difficult blood trail in terrible terrain and 100* temps.

This is neither a condemnation, nor a recommendation, just an observation. The bottom line is that wider blades cut more and penetrate less.


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That's 100% spot on!

On reason I like them for smaller or more frail big game and not for massive heavy boned big game.

My business partner is over 7 foot tall and just massive. He has a 34" draw and had to have a custom built bow and arrows.

They are 700 grains and if I recall from his pro shops statement those arrows are going 290 fps

I think he is shooting 80 lbs or just over? Cannot recall now. It's a high country archery bow.

When he tried expandables they were destroyed on everything he shot. No matter the brand. They could not handle the impact forces with that much weight and speed behind them. Twisted mangled blades or broken off at the shaft.

So more power is not the best solution in my opinion. Fixed blades are.


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Originally Posted by JJHACK
That's 100% spot on!

On reason I like them for smaller or more frail big game and not for massive heavy boned big game.



I gotta agree. The only reason I had that broadhead in my quiver was because I hadn't removed it after turkey season. I was hoping to see that huge hog I sent you the pic of, and (to be honest) I didn't care if he was recovered.


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The toughest expandable broadhead I have seen is the NAP Killzone. A friend of mine runs them through his custom PSE he calls the "xXx Roid". He runs a 680grn FMJ at 340fps. Yes you read the arrow weight and speed correctly. Bow was built by John Mosier aka Breathn. DW on the bow is 114#. It gets hunted quite regularly. The Killzone is the only head my buddy says has worked without issue.


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I've been shooting Rage for the last five years, as has my hunting pard and uncle. Both have killed a lot more than me, though I've taken a few whitetails and a 5x4 elk in Colorado last year. Hunting pard killed a 9x7 bull three years ago, excellent performance from the Rage.

We started with the originals, tried the chisel tip, and have all three settled on the Hypodermic. We have not yet lost an animal due to broad head failure.

I have no knocks against fixed heads, it's just really tough for me to change at this point based on my personal experiences.

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I'm a Slicktrick guy as well but last yr I tried the Killzone and they were impressive!! No O-rings, or bands to hold them together and never once did the blades pop out in my quiver. They were devastating on game as well. I will be shooting them again this yr for some more testing. Check them out.

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I shot a whitetail doe quartering towards me with a rage from a tree stand at 30 yards. The rage went through the thorax, the the rumen and out the back leg. Those huge blades drug rumen ingesta through the entire ham. YUK!


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I can sum my thoughts easily.

No.

If I can't hit em good enough with fixed, then I've got other issues.

Who says the extra inch that might help you this time, won't still not help you next....

I prefer to have a head that I don't have to worry about.

Granted they have come a long way from my reading, but what i've shot, has never failed me, where an expandable would have helped. And expandables have made for some LONG azz trailing when they failed, and they failed me on one of the best bucks I've ever shot at , when it deflected on an angling shot.

YMMV but fixed have worked so well for over 100 bowkills for me, I'll use em until I don't fling anymore.


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