Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Can anyone identify this M98?

Thumbs up -- that's a good "fate" for that rifle.

Thanks for the additional photos. I had a military original (but "arsenal refinished") Erfurt 98 for a number of years, which had 1915 as the date.

Why the hole in the stock by the cheekpiece?

You have to have someplace to put your thumb!

Aha !!!

Just some observations, but first beautiful rifle. Congrats.

My very first rifle back when I was a young Guy was a Fabrique Nationale Belgian Mauser 22-250 barreled action $136.. I had it re-chambered to 25-06 $30. I bought a Herter's, excellent burl walnut, semi finished blank $45 and completed it myself then glass bedded it. And installed double set triggers myself $25. It would shoot 5/8" groups all day. I even took moose with it.

I knew that there was something lurking in the woodwork when you said you would pull the scope mount. Military Mauser 98 bolt throw is up vertical. A normal modern scope can't be mounted without modification. So your bolt had to be re-shaped. Some old German sniper rifles did have primitive scopes with long eye relief.

So what can we call/identify this rifle ? It isn't a Mauser M98 by any means according to the family tree since the only original part remaining is the receiver. There must be a description but I can't name it here other than to place it into the category of "custom rifle". Not original, not obsolete.

So, again, what is the caliber? Why doesn't it have the classy and accurate double set triggers ?

(Emphasis added)
--Bob

Turks have been built on both small ring actions, and large ring actions though with small ring threads.

Thanks for re-confirming the caliber.

I'm a very old and very big fan of Mauser's. I still consider the M98 as the best action ever created. And I'm delighted that the creativity, ingenuity and mindset of some gun lovers and gunsmiths are refurbishing and modernizing the old rifles and receivers.

Now the plot thickens. Even in the face of the proof marks in the photos there are new questions.

1. Caliber 6.5 x 55 mm. That's Swedish King Gustaf.
2. Someone observed that the "crown" stamping looked Swedish.

Some Swedish Mauser's were made in Sweden and some in Germany and some privately. The practice of Swedes was to rank the guns by stamping categories and the crown meant approval while an X meant disapproval.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Mauser

http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/mats/marks_mauser_rifle.htm

Here also are photos of Mauser proof marks. The Crown shows in some.

https://www.google.com/search?q=swedish+mauser+proof+marks&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS512US512&tbm=isch&imgil=EAJqWs6ptfAAAM%253A%253Bn6tlX0XrE-Gt_M%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.msgo.com%25252Fthreads%25252Fswedish-mauser-markings.31496%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=EAJqWs6ptfAAAM%253A%252Cn6tlX0XrE-Gt_M%252C_&biw=1024&bih=395&ved=0CC8QyjdqFQoTCJXfo6KB_cYCFULVHgodHsQH7Q&ei=5ge3VZXUDsKqe56In-gO&usg=__ltN21BGBBbzPzm50BS5vIUCWVGw%3D#imgrc=EAJqWs6ptfAAAM%3A&usg=__ltN21BGBBbzPzm50BS5vIUCWVGw%3D

So? The ID is not yet 100% confirmed.

On a personal note I would have liked to have my Swedish King Gustaf customized and modernized but it was from an estate collection and in more than very good condition with all matching numbers. It also came with various soldier field accessories such as bayonette, cleaning kit, ammo packs, lube kit. I couldn't break it up and destroy it's original collector values as an authentic.

The bolt shield is 100% 98. Its an Imperial German small ring 98 action with a McGowen after-market barrel. That fact that the barrel is chambered in 6.5x55 is the only Swedish thing about it.

Not really. Most if not all the Erfurt Kar98's had the crown stamped on them. There is nothing special about the crown.



Yes, it was. Not only confirmed but much of the rifles history has also been documented through the date and proof stamps.

The fact that the rifle now wears an aftermarket barrel that's chambered in a 6.5X55 only shows that the guy who had this rifle customized had the good sense not to chamber it in a high pressure round.

BTW, Sweden only imported 5000 Kar98's and they were all chambered in 8X63 which required magazine box alterations. None were chambered for the 6.5X55. They originally bought them from Germany chambered in 8X57 but Sweden didn't like the 8X57 and reworked all of them.

I found a Swedish Mauser stampings website:

https://www.google.com/search?q=swedish+crown+on+mauser+rifles&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS512US512&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CC8Q7AlqFQoTCLWTzbnm_cYCFUlYPgoduKgKYQ&biw=1024&bih=395#imgdii=mfiv1xO0_DzYpM%3A%3Bmfiv1xO0_DzYpM%3A%3BLjnGwPDQxXLcWM%3A&imgrc=mfiv1xO0_DzYpM%3A

Don't know if it will open for you. There is one photo of the Swedish King Gustaf crown and it is stamped Erfurt'.

A also found evidence of armory's all over the place that produced the M98.

The crown on the receiver of this rifle is VERY compelling. I found a lot of information about that crown. There are three variations identifying manufacturers. Apparently no-one except the Swedes stamped the crown.

It may be tough for some to swallow but the preponderance of the evidence is pointing convincingly that this receiver is indeed Swedish King Gustaf manufactured in the Erfurt Armory, Germany.

Of course an alternative could be that we are being tricked but I don't want to go there and I really do not see any motive.

We are probably all spinning our wheels without being able to hold the rifle and examine it, its stampings, serial number and parts numbers.

If you'll do a little more research you'll find this is far from the truth.

I did open the page you linked and it's nothing but google pictures. If you'll bother to go to the actual website from the picture there is a lot info on it about the date marks and the 1920 marks above the original date. What you won't find is any mention of it being a Swedish rifle.

From the page you posted a link to:
1920 is not actually a date "per se". "1920" is the ownership stamp of the Weimar Republic. It was added to all former Imperial arms set aside under the strict limitations of the Versailles Treaty for use by the severely limited post-war German Armed Forces.

1920 refers to the year the weapons program came into effect after the bickering and in-fighting amongst the allies in 1919 to determine how severely to hamstring the new German gov't. Of course, we all know they went to far and basically set europe up for the next war 20-odd years later. hindsight is, after all, 20/20.

Was Sweden bound by the Versailles Treaty? I don't think so.

Do the majority if not all of the Erfurt Kar98's have the crown crest? Yes, they do.

Here is the google picture page you tried to link.
google pictures

Here is the actual page the picture you are going by is from:
The explanation of the picture you saw.

If you'll bother to read the actual page it will give you a lot of useful information.

The Sweds NEVER built 1898 style military Mauser actions. Sweds made small ring pre-1898 style actions during their entire production run, 1894+/- through 1942/43. When Husqvarna built sporting rifles on large ring actions after WW2, they imported them from FN in Belgium.

I think that you are over-reaching, reading things into this that just aren't there.

Military style m98 actions were never manufactured in Sweden, but some Swedish sporters were built on German and Belgian 98 actions.

here's a list from the nra museum on interpreting proof marks for armories from Belgium, Spain, Germany, France and Britain. Every country listed used some type of crown as a proof mark at some time.

http://www.nramuseum.com/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

Wouldn't be too surprised if every country that had both a monarch and a proof house used a crown at some point in time.

It's almost as if one of the people responding has never seen a custom rifle built on a military Mauser action... :crazy

czech1022-
Perhaps the hole to which TBREW401 referred was the smaller hole as shown in the image below? (If not, then permit me to ask about the smaller hole, if hole it is.)

Is it a metal-lined bolt disassembly aid like the steel-lined grommeted hole in the original military stock? Something else?

Thanks for taking the trouble to post your additional helpful photos above.
--Bob
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There looks to be another just behind the forend tip….

leadminer-
Oops. I overlooked the hole in the forend. Thanks. Sling-swivel sockets perhaps?
--Bob

Gentlemen:

I take all posts very seriously.

*( Unfortunately my Internet Explored is acting up again and dislaying very wide pages hiding some words on the right side. Thus I missed the first posting of caliber. I'm now on Firefox which is better ).

As to the post with NRA crown proof marks, thanks. Very informative. However, there are NO SWEDISH proof marks.

Something just is NOT right about ALL of this ID effort. The proofs in the NRA listing have additional stampings usually in the form of letters. The Crown/Erfurt does not ? Why not?

Here are my problems:

1. Just how reliable is anything we read on the internet ?

2. http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=218-1913-1920-%28Double-Dated%29-Kar98a-Carbine

The website indicates that the Germans engaged is some under the covers hanky panky with rifles, hiding some, modifying some secretly, resurrecting old parts, re stamping, and playing games.

It seems that the poster(s) who said there were other crowns were right. Here's the history of the German Republic and Imperial era. The 1916 Erfurt would be in the Imperial era. Thus the crown could apply to Germany - "perhaps".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire

I haven't been able to establish a direct link between Sweden and Erfurt. It really gets extensive and complicated unraveling the past so long ago.
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My ancestry is Bentheim/German/Dutch.Best efforts show that my family was from Bentheim. Dates go back to the mid-1800's. However, Bentheimers are traced back to the 11th century. My Great grandfather was born in Bentheim. My Grandfather in Swolle, Netherlands. Bentheim was a principality back at the time of Napoleon Bonaparte. Germany glommed onto Bentheim in that epoch and made it a part of Germany. None the less Bentheimers still exist and are internally independent. The Prince is sill recognized there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Bentheim
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I'm really very favorably impressed with the knowledge and expertize of posters here. Greatly appreciated.