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I've got an Encore with a Bergara barrel that I got from Bellm. Also have oversize hinge pin and a spring/trigger kit

I am shooting BH209, 100 grains by volume, CCI Magnum 209 primer, and 300 grain Hornady SST in their sabots

I am getting consistent 3" groups.

Scope is a Leupold 6x42.

Any thoughts on how to tighten up the groups? It's more accurate than my old iron sighted Renegade but I'd like to get a little more out of it

I can and will start varying my powder charge up and down but any advice or pointers would be appreciated. (Up or down? 5 grain increments or 10? Other thoughts on bullets or primers?)

Thanks

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I had lousy groups at 100 and 105 grains of BH209. 90 grains and 115 were superb.

I would go up and start at 110, but that is just me.

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Most BH 209 users agree that above-100 grains enters the sweet spot/accuracy of that powder. Most use either 110 or 120. Most weight their powder for better consistency. Most do not swab between shots either.

Word-of-note.... This is not the best time of year to dial-in. Too darn hot for both you and the inside of that bore. I'll probably wait until mid-September before returning to the range, here in Lower Michigan. It's been averaging near 90 degrees here lately.

Another thought is to try another bullet maker, although that SST is considered one of the most accurate on the market today. Want another option that won't bite the wallet hard?..... either the 260 or 300 grain Harvester Scorpion PT Gold. Buy them in 50pks for best savings and use your own sabots..... either short Harvester or crushed rib. Just do a Google search on what I have in bold above. It takes you to their website. You can buy the sabots there too.

I would suggest a milder primer too...... Winchester 209s. Those T/C breechplugs handle Blackhorn well and you don't need that powerhouse CCI-Mag primer. The Winchester will keep things cleaner around the firing pin and are easier to remove.

Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 07/28/15.
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Yeah I am shooting a fouling shot and then not cleaning between shots

I hear you on the heat - but don't really have a choice as I need to shoot when I have the time. Our muzzle loader season is the first 10 days of October and we'll still be pretty warm, just not the upper 90s we have been having

I should have noted - I also have a Bh209 breech plug

Last edited by ShortMagFan; 07/28/15.
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Then increase your powder and try that, along with weighing your loads. Also, you can get a much better recoil pad for that ML, now that you'll be kicking up the horsepower. Sims makes a custom pad for that ML and the Omega. At least thy used to, when I purchased one several years ago.

Oh!.... another option. You can remove that QLA from that T/C. I think a gunsmith will do it for around 50-75 dollars. That'll help too, especially if switching to conicals.

Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 07/28/15.
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Fortunately my stock has a decelerator pad

I have read all the issues with the T/C QLA which is part of why I went with a bergara barrel. Do those have the same issues?

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In the Encore I used to have 110 grs. of BH209 was the sweet spot for several different bullets. I'm not a fan of the 300 SST. In the Knights I have now I also shoot 110 grains of BH209 with a 275 Parker ballistic extreme.


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clean the breech plugs flash channel with the 1/8" drill bit. Keep the barrel cool between shots.

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Quote
300 grain Hornady SST in their sabots


That sabot is probably the MMP 3 petal EZ load sabot. I would strongly recommend the Harvester smooth black sabot for under 300gr bullets or the MMP HPH24 sabot. Both should give a better fit in that barrel.

Quote
I went with a bergara barrel. Do those have the same issues?


No, the QLA problem is specific to the factory T/C barrels but it does not seem to have much effect on sabots. The problem is most pronounced when shooting conicals.


As far as barrel heat....if it feels warm to the touch it is probably too warm for good groups. Harvester sabots are a little bit more tolerant of barrel heat but not much.

I would definitely try 110gr of BH209 also. Longer heavier bullets might benefit from more velocity. If groups get better then try 120gr also.

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Originally Posted by ShortMagFan
Fortunately my stock has a decelerator pad

I have read all the issues with the T/C QLA which is part of why I went with a bergara barrel. Do those have the same issues?


So the Bergaras don't carry the QLA?....... sweet!
With the decelerator, you are all set to increase recoil a wee-bit.
Ready-Set-Go! laugh

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they do but they are only 3/8" long but do not have the issues TC qla's do. I think a good portion of TC's conical problems is their shallow .004" rifling.

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A few possibilities:

Weigh your charges into BH charge tubes.
Use Harvester Crush Rib sabots. Some say .45 bullet/sabot combinations out-shoot .44s.
Let your barrel cool between groups to avoid heat-softening the sabots.

Of all the above, the Harvester Crush Ribs are IMHO the most likely to make a difference. They seem to get good press everywhere and are easier to load even than the regular Harvesters in my rifle.

Last edited by Pappy348; 07/28/15.

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I read that you guys prefer not to clean in between shots using BH209.
My question is, how many shots before cleaning is required?
Would it be when accuracy goes away or maybe when it's difficult to load?

Thanks for the input,
Steve

Last edited by Sbrown; 07/28/15.

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I wouldn't clean until something made it seem like a good idea; either a falling off of accuracy or difficulty in loading. Sabot residue might be the factor here, not powder residue. Keep an eye on the flash channel though.

My son had a misfire with my Knight last year that cost him a buck. The cause was most likely contamination of the powder by cleaning solvent left in the bore. After a day in the woods, I may pull a charge and fire off a cap to clear the remnant of powder, but the properties of BH209 and the stainless construction of my rifle make, IMO, daily cleaning unnecessary.

Last edited by Pappy348; 07/28/15.

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Originally Posted by bigblock455
they do but they are only 3/8" long but do not have the issues TC qla's do. I think a good portion of TC's conical problems is their shallow .004" rifling.


Thats just silly. Whites have shallow rifling and they are fantastic conical shooters.

Add the fact that quite a few people have cut off the QLA and now their T/C barrels shoot conicals just fine.

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Originally Posted by Sbrown
I read that you guys prefer not to clean in between shots using BH209.
My question is, how many shots before cleaning is required?
Would it be when accuracy goes away or maybe when it's difficult to load?

Thanks for the input,
Steve


I have shot as many as 40 times at the range with BH209 and did not see accuracy fall off and loading is the same from the 1st shot to the last. I did not clean the flash channel either. However it is a good idea to clean the flash channel more frequent than that. I always clean the flash channel after a range session and after 40 shots there was a significant amount of buildup in the flash channel.

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Originally Posted by McRem45
Originally Posted by Sbrown
I read that you guys prefer not to clean in between shots using BH209.
My question is, how many shots before cleaning is required?
Would it be when accuracy goes away or maybe when it's difficult to load?

Thanks for the input,
Steve


I have shot as many as 40 times at the range with BH209 and did not see accuracy fall off and loading is the same from the 1st shot to the last. I did not clean the flash channel either. However it is a good idea to clean the flash channel more frequent than that. I always clean the flash channel after a range session and after 40 shots there was a significant amount of buildup in the flash channel.


Ive had the exact same experience with Blackhorn. Some plugs with smaller flash channels may fill up with carbon quicker so its a good idea to recommend cleaning the channel more often. Im sure ive exceeded 30 shots many times and 40 shots several times without cleaning anything.

One thing is for sure, its a helluva lot easier to clean it before it becomes very restricted.

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Originally Posted by bigblock455
clean the breech plugs flash channel with the 1/8" drill bit.


1/8 ", did I read that right? How much bigger than the stock flash channel is that?



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Originally Posted by Overkill45
Originally Posted by bigblock455
they do but they are only 3/8" long but do not have the issues TC qla's do. I think a good portion of TC's conical problems is their shallow .004" rifling.


Thats just silly.


Stop the insults please. Quit putting labels on posters here.
In other words, act 18 (at least), instead of 15 years old.

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Insult? Label? Man you're gettin' your shorts in a knot way too easily. It is a "silly" statement coming from a self proclaimed muzzleloading expert.


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