If you were packing a 6.5mm rifle (doesn't matter which one) what 6.5mm bullet would you carry in the chamber/mag if you "might" be attacked by a bear? For inquiring minds, I'm building a 6.5x57 BR (30 deg shoulder) on a long Rem 700 action. A light, daily, carry rifle. I also have the same rifle in 9.3x62 but hey, I'm a rifle looney.
120 TSX recovered from beluga whale head. Around 50 yards
140 Partitions from far side of moose; double shoulder shot shots involving mainly muscle, no major bones. The same animal was also shot with 2 140 A-Frames which didn’t get quite as far and were lodged in the far side shoulder muscles. Around 150 yards
160 Hornady RN. Lengthwise caribou. About 100 yards
All six bullets were fired from the same 6.5x55 Swedish M70
In answer to your question about bullets for the 6.5 caliber, beats me! I’d probably run a heavy TXS as fast as it would go.
Even better, bring the 30-06.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
I've had them fail to exit a whitetail @ less than 150 yards, and on the other hand I've had them break bones and exit moose. all at .264 Win Mag speeds. I doubt I'd use them for big bear myself.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
My last would be the 160 Hornady. Have seen them break both of a deer's shoulders and exit, and not get all the way to the skin on the far side with a rib shot. And those were fired from a 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer at only 2200 fps.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I've been debating on what to use in my 6.5x55 as well. Not being a reloader I'm stuck with what's on the shelf. Right now it's a toss up between 140gr accubonds or Sakos 156 gr deerhead, which I think is a norma oryx. The accubonds shoot well, haven't tried the deerheads yet.
Well I have yet to shoot a black bear and in this lifetime will probably never shoot a brown bear but for elk and deer, easily hunted on the same day here, it has always been a 140 gr. Nosler Partition. They always work!
"The more I am around people the better I like my dog." Mark Twain
I'd consider the 160 grain Woodleigh in this mix. They shoot great in my 6.5-06. Keep using 140 vlds as they work great but for up close stuff, I'd probably still feel better with the Woodleigh bullet.
Nice thing is they both shoot to same point of impact at 100 yards for me.
Either 140 Partitions or 140 TBBC. I will be carrying my 260AI on Kodiak in October. Will be using one of these two. I haven't been able to catch a 140 AB either but I know the other two are tough.
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Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
The 130 gr Scirocco mentioned earlier is a great bullet along with the Partitions and Accubonds. I had good success with the 130 gr TSX but think the 120 gr TTSX is better than the TSX.
I have 3 boxes of 140 TBBC. That is why I would use them. I have put one length-wise through a decent black bear. Not as accurate as the partition, however.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
I'd Trust The Partion..I Run This One Through a 407 Pound Black Bear. Broke Both Shoulders. Never Seen One Die Quicker. He Never Made Sound. I Touched The Trigger And His Left Back Leg Switched Twice And He Was Dead.. 100 Gr Nosler Partion, Out Of 6.5-250AI. Shot Was At 31 Yds. 2889FPS.
Why do you think the 120 gr TTSX is better than the 130 TSX? What about the 127 LRX?
Alan
Although I have had no problems with the 130 gr TSX the bigger hollow point of the TTSX is more reliable when it comes to expansion in my opinion. Haven't tried the LRX yet but I would think they would at least be as good as the TTSX.
I have 2 kills with the 127 LRX thus my thinking it might be a good one to use. All from my light 6.5x47. A 3x4 mulie @ 500 and a very large cow elk @ 450. Both pass through, broadside shots that caused short 20 yds runs.
I've got another kill with the 142 gr Matrix VLD on a spike elk last Fall but that's not a bullet I would consider for this purpose.
I like the 140 partition - I run it out of the 6.5 Weatherby at 3350 fps and it holds together great on elk - full pass throughs at 300 yards and under so far - the 140 Bergers wouldn't stay together at 3400 fps. I'd not hesitate to use any Barnes bullet either. Both will work fine.
Alan - what velocity do you get with the lrx out of your 6.5x47?
I was running Varget so it was 2803 fps. Not really that fast. I got up over 2900 but the node was lower. I ran the Canadian 142 gr Matrix VLD at 2917 with Rel 17 last year for a spike elk I killed waaaaay out there! These were in a 24.5" #3 Broughton.
Thanks Alan - Did you find the drops approximated the published bc? I didn't run the numbers but would guess the impact velocity on the game you've taken was well below 2000fps.
this right here, I don't feel unarmed with my 7'08 in either 120 or 140 gr. as long as we're spitting X bullets.
shot placement, shot placement, ditto, with a great bullet will cover most scenarios.
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
Either 140 Partitions or 140 TBBC. I will be carrying my 260AI on Kodiak in October. Will be using one of these two. I haven't been able to catch a 140 AB either but I know the other two are tough.
A bud of mine is going to be goat hunting there in October. What are you going after?
No first hand experience in 6.5 cal. but Woodleigh's should be on the list too. They offer the 160 in either PP or RN and a 140 PP.
These don't penetrate as much as some others due to the wide expansion. The 160's have been used on scrub bulls with good reports in Australia.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Well from personal experience with the 160 gr 6.5 mm Hornaday RN- they tend to break up some- I collected a few out of the local White tails! I would not trust them on things such on Bears!
"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."
I have a half dozen plus whitetail kills with the 127 LRX and it is an excellent bullet (my personal favorite). I'd still go with the 130 TSXFB on bear, though. I'm assuming we're talking shorter distances where the BC of the LRX is irrelevant and the TSX will have more than enough velocity to expand every time.
Do you like the Scirocco better than the Secnar for the heavy stuff?
I quit using them, not because they didn't perform well, but to me it seemed from lot to lot they weren't very consistent accuracy wise. They are probably plenty accurate for most BG hunting, but I like .5" better than 1.5" groups...
Not speaking for Pat but what I have noticed with the Scirocco is that if you have projectiles from different lot numbers you pretty much have to rework load/seating depth to get your accuracy back... It's usually not much but a PITA none the less...
With the Scenar I have experienced that projectiles from different lot numbers have very lil change in accuracy if any at all... They seem very consistent from lot to lot...
After spending some time at the range today, I came to the conclusion that the 156gr Sako Deerhead (norma oryx I believe) shot much better groups than the 140 gr accubond. Even the 139 gr PPU cheap stuff was outshooting the accubonds. I was more than happy with them and my nine year old was too. He is quite excited to chase moose next month and black bears next spring with it. I'll probably limit him to inside 100 yds and a broadside shot, but if that shot presents itself we'll be cutting one up.
I haven't used the 156 6.5 Oryx nearly as much as the 7mm version, but the 7mm (and 180 .30) work well enough that I certainly wouldn't hesitate to head into the bear woods with rounds loaded with the 6.5 Oryx in the magazine.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Not speaking for Pat but what I have noticed with the Scirocco is that if you have projectiles from different lot numbers you pretty much have to rework load/seating depth to get your accuracy back... It's usually not much but a PITA none the less...
With the Scenar I have experienced that projectiles from different lot numbers have very lil change in accuracy if any at all... They seem very consistent from lot to lot...
And, I've noticed SSII's can be COAL sensitive, seem to do better jumping a good bit. I've had groups shrink from 1 1/2"-2" to sub MOA by adjusting (increasing) jump.
Not speaking for Pat but what I have noticed with the Scirocco is that if you have projectiles from different lot numbers you pretty much have to rework load/seating depth to get your accuracy back... It's usually not much but a PITA none the less...
With the Scenar I have experienced that projectiles from different lot numbers have very lil change in accuracy if any at all... They seem very consistent from lot to lot...
And, I've noticed SSII's can be COAL sensitive, seem to do better jumping a good bit. I've had groups shrink from 1 1/2"-2" to sub MOA by adjusting (increasing) jump.
DF
That's one of the things that's fascinating/frustrating about handloading. Few absolutes exist.
Not speaking for Pat but what I have noticed with the Scirocco is that if you have projectiles from different lot numbers you pretty much have to rework load/seating depth to get your accuracy back... It's usually not much but a PITA none the less...
With the Scenar I have experienced that projectiles from different lot numbers have very lil change in accuracy if any at all... They seem very consistent from lot to lot...
Agreed.....I've found through the years, that the higher BC match bullets kill plenty well for me. A lot of this stuff is over engineered, and discussed through opinions without actual experience....Shot placement still trumps all of the other factors everytime in my humble opinion.
This thread reminds me of the common evolution of so many threads as it winds into a "this can, if" thread, where the many variables so often present in the field get 'played' by the trump card of bullet placement. What isn't so well communicated are the differences which various individuals might be exposed to and have to negotiate with varying degrees of experience and judgment. Stuff is only over-engineered if you can overlook these details.
Shot placement might be the hunter's trump card, but we don't hunt as if there are no other players at the table. Time, terrain, weather, and quarry also share the same card table, and they also hold trump cards - and none of them blink. Every hand is different, but a good hand is never a bad thing.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
Shot placement might be the hunter's trump card, but we don't hunt as if there are no other players at the table. Time, terrain, weather, and quarry also share the same card table, and they also hold trump cards - and none of them blink. Every hand is different, but a good hand is never a bad thing.
I like this!
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
The original post also specifically asked about being attacked by a bear, a situation which doesn't always allow precise bullet placement, or (perhaps) sufficient penetration with a lighter-jacketed bullet.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Thank you Mule Deer for resurrecting that part of my original question; being attacked by a bear. If i'm going after a grizzly on purpose i'm likely using my 9.3x62 though I could be persuaded to use a 6.5 with a properly constructed bullet and conditions more akin to my liking. But, when suddenly confronted by a big bear I want a bullet that is going deep and breaking stuff as it goes through.
My daughter will be shooting a moose this year with the 156 gr Norma Oryx at 3500 fps, should be a pretty good test for these tough bonded bullets, originally I had worked up a load with the 160 gr Woodleigh Weldcore at 3440 fps but the Oryx was a more accurate bullet in my 6.5 Prometheus, not concerned about bears on this hunt as it's a draw tag for cow moose in Nov Dec...... but due to the velocity of the cartridge I had to select the heaviest and toughest bullet available... I wish Swift Bullets would make a 150 gr Scirocco or a 160 gr A-Frame in 6.5mm ........
This photo does not show all available 6.5mm bullets, just some of what I have on my bullet shelf, figured I'd post it here so y'all can see the difference between the bullets.......... I did not include the HP target type bullets from Berger, Sierra, Hornady etc... Due to the nature of the original question
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"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".
You also don't have to worry about them "opening too wide". (I realize that, based on my sometimes opining, that could be taken as a bad thing, but it isn't meant that way. )
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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