Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires Is the 17HM2 dead, dying, or ripe to be rediscovered?

I haven't seen any 17HM2 ammo in either retail or wholesale outlets for quite some time and was wondering what the 24HCF cognoscenti think.

I'm a big 17HM2 fan, believing that it is probably the best tree squirrel round ever created, but it never got much love from the hunting universe and seems to have, for the most part, died on the vine.

Is it dead?

Is it dying, without much hope for the future?

Is it holding on for a literary hero to champion its comeback as a previously unrecognized, but now rediscovered, gem?

agreed....

i hunt with it quite a bit, but not sure it'll make a comeback...i kind of wonder if the heavy demand for .22LR has made CCI put most plans for 17mach2 ammo production on the back burner?

I think a bit more Hornady .17M2 made it into circulation last month, but it dried up pretty fast.

It was dead before it ever got off the ground. Just couldn't compete with its Big Brother the 17HMR

The 17HM2 wasn't designed to compete with the 17HMR.

I contacted Hornady about this just a couple weeks ago, since normally some .17 Mach 2 ammo shows up around here in the spring, due to demand by "gopher" (ground squirrel) shooters. They said that no, the Mach 2 isn't dead by any means, just that the continuing high demand for rimfire in general put production off some this year, but that some Mach 2 ammo will be cranked out soon.

bea175 - I agree with you re: .17HM2 vs. .17HMR. It was designed to better the .22LR. The .17HM2 just could not compete with the LR both in price and availability. That was then and, at least in SoFlo, now I can't get either one. May have to go with my trusty 'wrist rocket' slingshot - LOL. Homesteadeer

Other than colony varmints, pdogs and gsquirrels, most small game and varmints that you'd use a rimfire for are shot within 100+/- yards and the 17HM2 shoots as flat a trajectory out to 100+/- yards as does the 17HMR with the same bullet weights. When the 17HM2 came out, ammo was about 1/2 to 2/3 of the price of the 17HMR ammo, so for applications out to 100+/- yards it was a more economical solution. I've never heard of a poor shooting 17HM2, particularly when shooting the Eley and Eley-made Remington ammo.

Or so it seems to me.

Around here in western Montana a lot of "gopher" shooters think the .17 Mach 2 is ideal--or did, when ammo was more available. While you can get shooting at longer ranges, most gopher shooting is in hayfields and cattle pastures, which are pretty level and in spring have enough vegetation so it's hard to see the little beggars beyond 150 yards.

A .17 M2 sighted in at 125 yards with 17 V-Maxes is about an inch high at 50 and 100, and 2 inches low at 150, significantly flatter than any .22 Long Rifle load, and covers the vast majority of shooting. And if you can find ammo for less than $100 a brick it's still a better deal for gophers than the .17 HMR.

Of course, you can take a long a .17 HMR, .17 or .22 Hornet (or even a .204 or .223) for the shots beyond 150, and some do. But if you only have a .17 M2 along you're set for the vast majority of shots.

I bought a T/C classic stainless in 17M2 and glad I sold it.

Not much demand for the cartridge or gun any longer.


Doc

I've taken 17HM2s along on pdog shoots, but it was always seemed too windy to use them. Now a Ruger 10/22 Magnum rebarreled to 17HMR is a lot rapid fire pdog shooting fun if the wind isn't blowing.

I bought a very rough Rem 581 with the thought that I might turn it into a 17HM2, but unless the ammo comes back in consistent availability at a decent price by the time I actually do something with it, it will stay a .22. I've never owned a 17HM2 but have always thought it would make an excellent squack killer.


Dave.

260Remguy,

Yeah, the M2 is a little on the light side for prairie dogging, due to the usual wind. Much prefer the HMR for PD's.

Gopher shooting isn't usually as windy.

It always seems to be windy where I shoot pdogs in South Dakota.

I have a Remington 581 that I rebarreled with a modified Green Mountain 17HM2 barrel that was made for the Ruger 96/17. It works fine and I like the trigger pull better than any of my Marlin or Savage bolt guns.

What's a 17HM2??

260Remguy: "I" hope its not dead!
I have three Varmint Rifles in this nifty little caliber.
I have not seen any 17 Mach2 ammo on a stores shelves in at least a year.
Rarely, even a rumor of such is heard.
I have about 4,000 rounds of 17 Mach2 on hand after this past season and would eagerly buy some more at any kind of decent price.
I have though, been seeing 17 Mach2 ammo offered for sale at gun shows for $17.00 and $18.00 a box of 50 - not sure if it sells but thats the norm here in the west.
I think it is an exceptional and efficient little rimfire.
Accuracy is outstanding and lethality on small game and Varmints is impressive.
I have several places where people invite me to shoot Ground Squirrels off of their lawns, out of their gardens and out of their flower beds - this is THE cartridge I choose for all these occassions.
Risk of ricochet in semi-settled areas where I frequently shoot is GREATLY reduced with the plastic tipped 17 Mach2 ammo especially when compared to 22 rimfire rounds!
I vote to keep up the production and availability of the 17 Mach2.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Too many 17M2 guns sold for it to die any time soon IMO.

If/when rimfire ammo supply ever returns to normal I'm going to get another one in a bolt gun. Great gopher round.




Travis

but this was the way most shooters viewed it, plus I have never found the 22 lr lacking for squirrels in the tall Hickory's in VA & TN

While the .22 LR is the standard by which squirrel rifle cartridges are measured, the 17HM2 is superior in range and the fragile bullets make it less likely to ricochet. The 17HM2 is a decidedly acquired taste, but once you've tasted it and discovered what it is capable of, nothing else in its category measures up. Also, when Eley was making ammo, the 17HM2 ammo was match-grade accurate for less than the cost of comparable Eley/RWS/Wolf .22 LR offerings.

They are a kick in the pants on a calm day in a dog town. Especially when the town hasn't been shot in over a year.

I will be surprised if the 17 HM2 ever comes back and gets off the ground

bea175 - +1. Sad it died stillborn stuck in the 17HMR's shadow.
BUT,if it ever does come back I've a H&R barrel for it. Homesteader

In the good 'ol days at $4.00 for 50 eley, it was the greastest gopher round ever.
At $10 for 50.....HMR and/or Mini-Mags.

Agreed, at $10 per box of 50 they aren't the bargain they once were. Maybe Aguila will make them to Eley-specs some day. Until then, I have around 8K rounds of Eley on the shelf.

Last brick of Hornady M2 I bought was about six months after Obama's reelection, and was $59.00. Would be happy at that price, especially since 5-shot groups average under .4" at 50 yards from my CZ.

Mine were Hornady from some bullet outfit in the Bitterroot.
$70 about a year ago.
Found them in a freak internet search.

That's not bad either. It's certainly less than .17 HMR is going for now. I've gotten some good deals on HMR over the Internet, but the best was a around $115 a brick (most stores are at least $12.99/50). Haven't seen any for $100 a brick for several years, and that was case price.

I hear bulk paks of floor sweepins' (HMR, Mini-Mag) are available close to the JOC Museum......
I hear.

$59 retail is a heck of a price, as the current common wholesale price is $6.88 per box of 50! The CCI and Hornady brand 17HM2 has never shot as well for me as the Eley and Remington brands. My 17HM2s are Marlin (x3) and Savage (x3) with factory barrels, a Remington 581, a couple of Ruger 10/22s, and a Savage with reworked Green Mountain barrels, and a 10/22 with a lined factory barrel.

260, sounds like you are really in to the 17HM2s???

260, sounds like you are really in to the 17HM2s???

Yes, except for a handful of cartridges, there are multiple firearms for each cartridge that I shoot.

260Remguy: I only tell of this incident on rare occassions because it sounds to good to be true - but I swear it is.
My good friend and retired gunsmith bought a heavy barrel CZ Rifle in caliber 17 Mach2 about 5 years ago now.
He had a big Cabela's brand variable scope on it (4x16 power IIRC).
And he tuned up the trigger a bit.
He was doing ammo accuracy testing with it one day and I happened to be at the range that dead calm day with him.
He was shooting that little 17 at 100 yards with Eley ammunition when he calls my attention to his target.
As I looked at it through my 40 power range scope I burst out laughing the 5 shot group he produced there at 100 yards turned out to be just over .25"!
NOT .26" but just a hair over .25".
I measured it myself with a steel rule (.01" graduations) once we got out to it.
To this day I think THAT grouping is the best I have ever seen shot or shot myself at 100 yards with a rimfire - and believe me I have seen and shot a lot of them.
The story continues - my friend was SO impressed (as was I) with that grouping and other groups shot by that CZ that he tried to buy another one. Sadly the next CZ heavy barrel in 17 Mach2 he purchased came to him with a ruined barrel - it appeared to be pitted and rusted/discolored and it would not shoot well at all.
He opined that the bluing solution had gotten into the barrel or it had not been properly cleaned before bluing?
He sent the Rifle back to CZ and they agreed the barrel was toast and relayed to him that unfortunately they had quit making that model in 17 Mach2 by then.
They also had no spare barrels either.
They did offer him any other caliber they made in that model and he opted for one in 17 HMR.
It shoots very well - so he's happy but has no fall back 17 Mach2 CZ.
Back when my friend discovered how well the first 17 Mach2 shot with the Eley ammunition he began searching his mail order and other sources for 17 Mach2 Eley ammo.
He found and bought 10,000 (ten thousand!) rounds of Eley from a mail order outfit, and including shipping he got it all for under $4.00 per box of 50!
Again I hope the 17 Mach2 is NOT dead and ammunition will begin to come around again SOON.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Who makes a rifle for it anymore? Probably Savage and Cooper, so junk or high end. I haven't seen ammo for it in years on the shelves. If I owned one I would try to buy every round I could get because IMO it's going to be like the 5mm soon.

I have an Anschutz 64 in 17HM2 that I will be selling....

Both my Marin and Savage 17HM2s shoot great groups. Don't own a Cooper Jackson Squirrel, but wouldn't mind owning one if the price was right.

Almost any 17HM2 rifle can be easily rebarreled to .22 LR, so if 17HM2 ammo ever goes out of production, there is a reasonable alternative available.

When you settle on a price, send me a PM.

260Remguy: One of my Ground Squirrel Hunting partners had a Ruger Mark II heavy barrel stainless pistol converted to 17 Mach2 and I have shot it several times.
It has an expensive red dot sight on it and is an absolute blast to shoot!
Its accurate reliable and deadly on Gophers!
If it were not for the "ammo shortage" I would have followed exactly in his footsteps and had one made (re-barreled) for myself.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Reelman: I hope you are wrong regarding the future of the 17 Mach2!
Bill in NE: I bought a heavy barrel Anschutz in 17 Mach2 early this year.
It is the Model 1502 and has a very Varmint/field shooting friendly wide forearmed stock.
The trigger is superb and the accuracy wonderful.
In other words if you are as happy with the accuracy of your Anschutz as I am with mine then if I were you I would "gamble" on keeping it.
Part of the reason (I think!) that I got such a good deal on this nifty Rifle (and some ammo that came with it) is because the owner had died and his adult son was worried HE could not get ammo for it so it went up for sale?
NO ONE... is more aware of the difficulty/expense in obtaining 17 Mach2 ammo currently than "I" - I just think the ammo will burp up every now and then from the factories so's I can replenish my stocks.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Even if 17HM2 ammo is available from CCI/Hornady, it is unlikely that Eley will ever make it again and Eley was the yardstick by which all others are measured. Of course, if JB can shoot 0.40" groups with CCI/Hornady, there isn't any reason another competent shooter with a good rifle can't do as well and 0.40" is certainly "minute of squirrel" accurate.

does the 581 have a sporter barrel or a varmint contour? sounds like an interesting conversion.

also, have you had any issues with the 10/22's? have read a few reports of problems such as blown cases, etc...have a spare 10/22 now i've been thinking of converting.

How did it shoot?

I had a Classic in .22 and it would group MiniMags into an inch at 50 using a cheap red dot. What it wouldn't do was feed holler points so it went down the road. I figured the M2 might feed pretty well, but they disappeared before I made up my mind. I had 1800 rounds I bought for my Kimber conversion unit, but sold them when I gave up on the rifle idea.

All of the GM 17HM2 barrels that I have are 20" fluted blued CM sporter contour that were made for the 96/17. I have installed these on the Rem 581 and on two 10/22s. I use the 10/22 Magnum recoil springs and a 'smith who shall remain nameless reworked the bolt to add 6 oz. of weight. The trick for my conversions is to keep them spotlessly clean, so that the rim is fully recessed. I have not had a blow out, but have has some bulged cases when I let the breech get dirty with powder residue. It isn't a conversion that I would recommend for the casual shooter, but if you're willing to keep it clean, it is fun to shoot.

PS - I've been told by several people that the conversion is unsafe and won't work, at least in theory, but in practice it does work, it just isn't foolproof.

The 17m2 shot 1/2 inch at 50 yards and about 1 1/2 inches at 100 yds.

Doc

In a very short time the 17HM2 will be as dead as the 5mm Remington magnum. Cartridges are just like animals, sometimes they just go extinct for no really good reason. The 5mm Rem Mag should have been the success story that the 17HMR was, ballistic wise it is a superior cartridge but the stars were just in line for it.

drover

Nothing personal, but when it come to predicting the 17HM2's future, I hope that JB is right and that you are wrong.

I Have Found them a few times at pawn shops and they were reasonable.
They usually are anxious to move them as none of their customers know what they are.

One of the problems Hornady cited was more rimfire cartridges these days, all except the .17 WSM based on either the .22 LR or .22 Magnum case. As a result, factory production lines have to be changed over from .22 LR to .17 M2, and with the still incredible demand for .22 LR, .17 M2 production has to remain seasonal.

Apparently the .17 HMR is more popular that the .22 Magnum these days, judging from the relative abundance of .17 HMR and lack of .22 Magnum. However, there's relatively little variety in .17 HMR loads. The wide variety of "specialty" .22 Magnum loads each require different manufacturing set-ups, however slight, so big ammo runs aren't as easy as with the .17 HMR.

It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Mule Deer: A friend of mine on the west coast found 26 cartons (13,000 rounds) of "fresh" Hornady 17 Mach2 ammo at a sport shop.
He bought me 5 cartons (at $6.75 per box plus 9% sales tax!).
Luckily he is coming my way soon to recreate and I won't have to pay any shipping.
IF... there are any cartons left when I get more mad money (on August 19th and August 31st) I will buy more then.
Maybe this is a sign of some fresh (new to the stores) 17 Mach2 ammo becoming available?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

not after you hog it up ....

Natchez got some HM2 in recently and sold through it very quickly. I should have scooped some up at $7.50/ box. I have a reasonable supply, but it never hurts to have a little surplus.

Bought my M2 about 7-8 yrs ago...yea when Eley ammo was everywhere

Its a HB SS Lam wood Salvage w/Basix trigger...Minox ZV-3 4-14

Its an amazing cartridge for what it is...most would call me a liar

when I tell them of 1 shot kills on p/dogs at 175 yds..on a calm day

The little V max really smacks & kills fast...My buddy has a CZ HB

M2 that I may try to talk him out of..

I have three of the Savage Mark IIs in 17HM2, two are the BVSS style with the stainless heavy barrel and laminated stock and the other is an FV that I restocked with a Boyds Rimfire Hunter laminated stock. I gave the restocked FV to a friend in New Hampshire and he uses it to discourage the woodchucks that want to chow down on his vegetable garden.

I also have three of the Marlins, a 917M2S and two 917M2s I like the balance of the longer Marlins better than the Savages and find myself shooting them more often. The 917M2S is my primary fox squirrel rifle. I have bedded it in a Boyds Rimfire Hunter laminated stock and mounted a Weaver V16 in Warne Maxima rings. If I do my part, it is accurate enough to shoot squirrels at 100+/- yards when they are scavenging waste corn out in cut corn fields.

Just put together a 10/22 his week in .17m2; have several bolt guns in mach2 but decided i'd give it a try in an autoloader.

Its the one on the right, Volquartsen carbon fiber barrel, Leupold 4x12. VQ heavy bolt assy arrived today, dropping that in this weekend, and shooting it some next weekend.

I'm thinking about doing this backwards. If I get an opportunity to buy a case or more of ammo, then I'll buy a rifle.

Had a Kimber .45 conversion unit that was fun, but would fire when slightly out of battery and cause the cases to bulge. Never split one though. After I sold it I sold the 1800 rounds of mixed brand ammo I had for about what I paid (pre-panic).

If this latest batch of ammo sold out as quickly as it seems, then the message to the ammo manufacturers is crystal clear. There is an eager market for the round, and it will be worthwhile for them to meet it's demand.

I for one love the little cartridge. I have a Contender chambered in it, and everyone who shoots it has a blast.

I have 11 bricks of 17M2. I bought it when it was 7 cents a shot.
I have a 17M2 reamer.
I have a 17M2 rifle.
10 years ago we were hunting Eastern Oregon for ground squirrels.
Now we are hunting Eastern Montana for prairie dogs.
The 17HMR is not good enough for prairie dogs that have been shot over.
I am not using my 17HRM rifle either.
So despite the amazing groups a 17M2 can make at 100 yards, it is dead to me now.
It is all 223 builds for me now.


But 8 days ago I got a running brain shot on a coon with a 22 CB short.

So the 17M2 may find resurrection someday.
I am just not shooting anything at 100 yards right now.
Lately, my brother in MT has a new hobby of shooting pigeons off the tops of grain silos... maybe we can work in the 17M2.

Perhaps not, but the 17HMR smothered it nevertheless. If the 17HMR had never been the 17HM2 would be far more popular than it is now.

The only good news is that the 17HM2 uses readily available components, the 22 Stinger case necked down and the same bullets as the 17HMR. So it isn't difficult for CCI to tool up for a run now and then. The problem right now is that demand for 22 ammo is so high that they can hardly spare the time to swap tooling at all.