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Your thoughts on what versatility you would gain with all those chokes-and which ones would you get-over a fixed IC or Mod?

Snag that model 12 up. The only shotgun I own with screw in chokes is an SX3 for shooting fasteel.

The only choke I have used in it is mod. Just like all the fixed choke guns in the safe.

I could use an IC choked model 12 though....

Problem with choke tubes is people think in terms of fixed consistent distances. Ic is perfect for so many yards, mod for this yardage and etc.

But with the exceptions of skeet and trap, game Birds don't always follow the rule. One gets up at your feet and the next at 30 yards out. On the same Bird, same day, you may have the perfect choke screwed in this time and the next you don't. You miss with the first barrel when it is perfect and the bird now may be closer or further. Best to play the odds and go with something that covers all the bases. Fixed ic covers a lot of them within the range that most of us can consistently hit. Myself I like mod.

Improved cylinder can cover most if not all ranges for wild bird shooting, pheasants primarily. Shoot a round of trap with an "IC" choke from the 16 yard line and most shooters will be surprised at their scores and importantly the crushing of the clay birds.

Before choke tubes became the standard in the mid 80's very few fixed choke shotguns or barrels were sold in improved cylinder and not sure why. Tighter patterns are not always better.

My Parker Brothers SxS was built in 1901 and choked IC and light mod, the original purchaser know what chokes he needed in a bird gun 114 years ago.

Doc

Cylinder for close in, buckshot, and slugs...Full, extra full, and turkey for , well, turkeys and such...

I leave the IC in my guns 90% of the time, but I enjoy the ability to change.

I think that it's great that the prices have come down - it keeps them from being "investments" and puts them in the hands of people who appreciate shooting them.

I love guys with that mind set! I get all kinds of good deals on fixed choke guns from guys that just GOTTA have screw ins. :-)

Nothing smokes targets, dumps birds or patterns better than a old fixed choke Winchester or Remington barrel

Shot a pump-gun event with an old Remington TC with fixed mod. It was ripping 30-40 yard targets and ink balling anything much closer. Bud who was walking around with me commented on how hard it was hitting targets.

Remington Nitros 1 1/8 7.5's which are another winner.

battue, have you every noticed that a mod. choke at the 16 yd. line seems to demolish birds more often than a full??It seemed to me when I had a mod. choke I just crushed more birds than whne I had a full.. Maybe I am just a poor shot..

Hazen,

Shot trap kinda seriously, more moons ago than I ever thought would rise. Started out with the Remington 870 TC mentioned with a different barrel and I can't remember the choke, but probably full. Then I had a Perazzi single barrel that was full. When you were on that thing would turn targets into ink spots at the 16.

Have only shot trap relatively few times in the following years and usually with my Sporting Clay shotgun and Mod. From memory I would have to say the old fulls hit them harder.

That being said, if I was going to shoot trap today for a little serious fun, I would probably prefer a Mod from the 16.

Yep....I had a "lefty" 870 20 gauge tubed by Mike Oren early spring and have regretted it since. I should have just bought an extra barrel
and had it re-choked to skeet and the factory modified barrel taken down to "Skeet II". This two barrel combination would have covered all
the bases I would use this gun for.

Seasoned skeet shooters always give me a smirk looking at my 870 pump
on a skeet range....until they see a pump is no slower than a O/V or auto. On doubles I extract the last shot fired and catch the empty in the air with my trigger hand ( pushing the stock butt against my shoulder for support) The K-80 shooters stopped smirking after that stunt.

Doc

There is a nice piece of wood on that old 870 TC and I had it refinished once. Checkering is gone again and I've filed on it for fit. Had to throw some oil on it to bring it out, but It has been around more than a few fields; Pheasants, Grouse-when I had nothing else-Turkey, Trap and Sporting Clay pump gun events when I get the urge.

Back when an 870 was and 870.

Nice gun .. My old TC is one with screw in chokes.. I had to trade barrels before I got one that suited me.. But it has a beautiful piece of wood in it.. If I remember, I will take a photo when we get home and post it..

Haven't shot much trap since 95 when I took my first trip to Africa.. Then a few years later, I retired, and never got back into the ATA.. Just fool around at the local club to keep my hand in for bird shooting.

But the years I did shoot trap made me a better field shot.
I realized what could be done with a shotgun, and it made me a more confident shotgunner.. Now there is just too much to do, to go to a shoot stand around all day to maybe shoot an hour.. But it was great for my all around shotgun shooting..

"Model 12s, unless in 28ga, don't bring what they are truly worth."

I've always thought Model 12s were priced above what they are truly worth. Good guns, mind you, but not all that much better than many pump guns of the same era. Not as much better as some people seem to think, anyway.

I obtained a 1920 Model 12 and used it on ducks and pheasant last fall. It seems to have a lot of training or built-in game hitting ability as it was extremely effective on the birds with its full choke, 32" barrel, and using 1 1/4 oz. #4 shot. Almost no original finish remains, and I found out why I got it so reasonably when it started to fail to feed and locked up ("Grandfather's old shotgun doesn't work right, let's sell it off"). A replacement of the cartridge lifter spring and of a broken firing pin have easily made it right as rain. I marvel at its smoothness of action now along with its balance and how sweetly it points- just a fine old shotgun. I think that it is ready for another 95 years of hunting as long as I don't shoot steel shot in it.

Why not buy it and send the barrel to Briley? They will bore it out for flush mounted choke tubes. I sold a 20 gauge Model 12 to a friend, in part because it was a fixed full choke, and he did just that. Turnaround time was a week.

I too like the old fixed choke pump guns...friend has a 16 gauge plain barrel 26" IC Wingmaster, and I'd like one someday too. But...when I was a kid, everyone used full choke pump 12s, and I remember being admonished to wait out the close flushing sharptails. But I went hunting in my 20s with a friend who had an old M97 that had had the barrel cut back to 24" with no choke...and he didn't wait for them, he shot them close, didn't shoot them up, and impressed the hell out of me. I bought a barrel for my 12 gauge fixed choke Wingmaster that had Remchokes, and bought a skeet choke for the first weekend. When the birds flush at your feet, it was perfect. After a couple weeks when the birds got smarter, I switched to modified. I like that versatility, especially with sharptails that act WAY differently in late season than they do on Sept 1st. Still shoot a screw in barrel Wingmaster, but now it's a 20!

I picked up a Model 12 12 ga, 20" cylinder to which a Cutts had been added a while back. IIRC, it was an early 50s gun wearing the US ordinance markings. Likely a Bureau of Prisons gun as it was carried a good bit and according to the innards, shot little.

Why buy such these days? I learned on a pump and it was $140 in a pawn shop. At that price, I can use it as a dedicated truck or Kawasaki Mule gun and it will last forever. Or for a piece of money, Briley could do wonders with the barrel. But why, I have other guns to hunt with or to impress folks.

I do use two other pumps from time to time. A thirty something 870 with a later extra light screw choke system and my delightful 42, a modified choke gun I picked up a few years ago still in amazing condition. If the terrain and conditions are right, it is a fun dove gun.

Jack

I can't think of an overall more "useful" shotgun than a fixed choke IC or Modified 2 3/4". Gauge, 12, 16 or 20 doesn't really matter to me.

Model 12s are great and as far as versatility goes, between ic and mod I usually have a light mod in my barrel 90% of the time and 2 3/4 in my chamber 90% of the time, except during duck season when that slides down to about 50% of the time. So if I could find a model 12 with a 26" barrel choked Lt mod I would say that would be a very versitile gun, and I would like to own one. Till then I guess I will be forced to shoot this old M1. Grin