Rancho_Loco - post could be worse. IF it was about slingshots we'd be discussing the merits of latigo leather vs. surgical tubing. OR it could degenerate down to "what would David (yes, that one!) use"? Homesteader
Rancho_Loco - post could be worse. IF it was about slingshots we'd be discussing the merits of latigo leather vs. surgical tubing. OR it could degenerate down to "what would David (yes, that one!) use"? Homesteader
I'm pretty sure even David would have considered the 7x57 archaic.
Originally Posted by captain seafire
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
I've handloaded and hunted with both rounds in numerous rifles, and I'd go 7x57 just because brass is sometimes more available, but because it's more consistent. There can be noticeable differences in dimensions in 6.5x55 brass, especially in head-size between American and European brands.
Other than that there's not much difference, either in the way they kick or kill stuff.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I'll second the motion for 7x57. Plan on using mine for my next elk hunt if I find a load that I like. Paul B.
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them. MOLON LABE
I've had both and from the games perspective there is no difference and once you close the bolt you won't notice either. The same could be a said of the 270, 308, 7-08, etc. Both will make you an excellent rifle so if you have a preference go with that. If pressed I would go with the 7mm as pointed out components may be a bit more available especially during election scares. In addition in my home state of Ky the minimum caliber for elk is a 270. or .277. That would preclude the 6.5.
Hmmm, between a 7x57 and 6.5x55 I own around 6 of them. So, yea, I like these cartridges. I'll probably use my 6.5x55 Swede M38 rifle in a surplus rifle competition this weekend and maybe my 7x57 Ruger 77 tang safety rifle in another competition. Tough call, but I'd go with a 7x57 cartridge rifle.
Yeah I will probably shoot the lighter ones. And ingwe I am a redhead does that count? Scared yet?! I'm not an opie looking one though lol
MJB -
I have my first 6.5 Swede and SO FAR I'm UNDER-impressed with the velocity (speed ) I'm getting w/129 gr bullets.
ASAP I'll be trying 120 grs. With slow velocity your trajectory is not flat enuff for me. I'm hoping to flatten the Swede out with the 120s.
If I can't get acceptable accuracy with more velocity, I will NOT have another 6.5x55.
For comparison I have and have had 6mm Rems and 3100 fps is very doable with 100gr bullets. That gives FLAT trajectory (relatively speaking) and 95-100 gr 6mm bullets come in brands that work on WT--Elk
So from my perspective I would not think twice about getting the 7X 57, after all it's the 'miniature 270 W. GRIN ! !
[quote=elkhunternm][quote=mjbgalt]Finishing a Mauser build and can go either way.
Could do a .270 Ingwe. Which is a 7x57 necked down to .277" with no other changes.
Be the first on your block to have something 99.999% of the population never even heard of.
Just a thought....if you necked the 7x57 down to .270 and then blew the shoulder angle out to 40 degrees, as in an Ackley Improved, then you would have something that 99.9999% never heard of. Heck, with an article or two extolling it's virtues, you could become an internet sensation.
Anyhow....just a thought
Psalm 19:14-May these words of my mouth and this meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer. _ Humble servant of Jesus Christ. Living His plan and praying to show it in name, word, body, and light.
I would base the choice on which caliber I had brass and bullets on hand...... either are "THE" choice for a custom Mauser and they both do excellent.Beings I already have a 7x57 and a .260 I would go with the 6.5x55.
[quote=elkhunternm][quote=mjbgalt]Finishing a Mauser build and can go either way.
Could do a .270 Ingwe. Which is a 7x57 necked down to .277" with no other changes.
Be the first on your block to have something 99.999% of the population never even heard of.
Just a thought....if you necked the 7x57 down to .270 and then blew the shoulder angle out to 40 degrees, as in an Ackley Improved, then you would have something that 99.9999% never heard of. Heck, with an article or two extolling it's virtues, you could become an internet sensation.
Anyhow....just a thought
Sure and call II... Ingwe Improved.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Rancho_Loco - "I'm pretty sure even David would have considered the 7x57 archaic." What IF it was endorsed by Moses? Honestly "6.5 Swede" just sounds waay cooler than plain vanilla "7X57 Mauser". At the range the Swede's always get more on-lookers than anyone using a 7MM anything - LOL. Homesteader
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
... There can be noticeable differences in dimensions in 6.5x55 brass, especially in head-size between American and European brands.
True!!! And had I known that before I built my Sweed, I would have built a 7x57. My Sweed is a tack driver and I love it but I only use Norma bra$$. Winchester and Remington are too inconsistent.
PS
I second the 6.8x57 a.k.a. the .270 Ingwe
Last edited by HaYen; 08/14/15.
Remember, not everyone has a happy ending, so be happy when you can
Rancho_Loco - "I'm pretty sure even David would have considered the 7x57 archaic." What IF it was endorsed by Moses? Honestly "6.5 Swede" just sounds waay cooler than plain vanilla "7X57 Mauser". At the range the Swede's always get more on-lookers than anyone using a 7MM anything - LOL. Homesteader
That's why you get .275 Rigby stamped on the barrel.
[quote=elkhunternm][quote=mjbgalt]Finishing a Mauser build and can go either way.
Could do a .270 Ingwe. Which is a 7x57 necked down to .277" with no other changes.
Be the first on your block to have something 99.999% of the population never even heard of.
Just a thought....if you necked the 7x57 down to .270 and then blew the shoulder angle out to 40 degrees, as in an Ackley Improved, then you would have something that 99.9999% never heard of. Heck, with an article or two extolling it's virtues, you could become an internet sensation.
Anyhow....just a thought
Sure and call II... Ingwe Improved.
Glad everyone had a sense of humor about that, was not trying to bash. I was actually thinking of "7 Mauser/.270 Ingwe Improved Super-Blooper"
Psalm 19:14-May these words of my mouth and this meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer. _ Humble servant of Jesus Christ. Living His plan and praying to show it in name, word, body, and light.
[quote=elkhunternm][quote=mjbgalt]Finishing a Mauser build and can go either way.
Could do a .270 Ingwe. Which is a 7x57 necked down to .277" with no other changes.
Be the first on your block to have something 99.999% of the population never even heard of.
Just a thought....if you necked the 7x57 down to .270 and then blew the shoulder angle out to 40 degrees, as in an Ackley Improved, then you would have something that 99.9999% never heard of. Heck, with an article or two extolling it's virtues, you could become an internet sensation.
ingwe - these folks are being polite to you...seems I remember a leopard print thong associated with "Ingwe"; ".270Win" and "7X57" in the not so distant past. Homesteader
Were your wife a 7x57, she would wake you up with a BJ, then go make coffee for you naked, letting you examine her curvature whilst enjoying said coffee, only to really start of your day on the kitchen table.
Then she heads of to her high paying job and comes back at night with your favorite food, cold beer and a new rifle, asking "How was your day?" and saying "Hope, you missed me as much as I did you." really saying: "Lets hit the sack."
Pleasure on oh so many levels - thats the 7x57 Mauser.
Were your wife a 7x57, she would wake you up with a BJ, then go make coffee for you naked, letting you examine her curvature whilst enjoying said coffee, only to really start of your day on the kitchen table.
Then she heads of to her high paying job and comes back at night with your favorite food, cold beer and a new rifle, asking "How was your day?" and saying "Hope, you missed me as much as I did you." really saying: "Lets hit the sack."
Pleasure on oh so many levels - thats the 7x57 Mauser.
There is just no reason to complain.
Wow...does this really happen? Maybe Steelhead could give us an answer!!
Mainly because you sold me an accurate Douglas 6.5x55 Mauser barrel a few years ago. If you didn't like it then, why do you think you would like it now?
Were your wife a 7x57, she would wake you up with a BJ, then go make coffee for you naked, letting you examine her curvature whilst enjoying said coffee, only to really start of your day on the kitchen table.
Then she heads of to her high paying job and comes back at night with your favorite food, cold beer and a new rifle, asking "How was your day?" and saying "Hope, you missed me as much as I did you." really saying: "Lets hit the sack."
Pleasure on oh so many levels - thats the 7x57 Mauser.
Were your wife a 7x57, she would wake you up with a BJ, then go make coffee for you naked, letting you examine her curvature whilst enjoying said coffee, only to really start of your day on the kitchen table.
Then she heads of to her high paying job and comes back at night with your favorite food, cold beer and a new rifle, asking "How was your day?" and saying "Hope, you missed me as much as I did you." really saying: "Lets hit the sack."
Pleasure on oh so many levels - thats the 7x57 Mauser.
There is just no reason to complain.
Wow...does this really happen? Maybe Steelhead could give us an answer!! Doc
I can tell you from personal experience that the 6.5S is a FREAKING long way from the 270W.
If I can't wake my Swede up it WILL BE on the chopping block!
All things being equal, my 6.5x55s generally run 150 to 200 fps slower than my 270 with 130 grain bullets.
6.5x55 with 129 grain Hornady is getting 2,850+/- in a 24" Remington 700. 270 with 130 grain Hornady is getting 3,000+/- in a 22" Remington 700. Of course, I wouldn't load the 6.5x55 that hot for a pre-1898 style Mauser or any Krag.
The 6.5x55 has about 10 grains less powder capacity and a little smaller bore than the .270 Winchester. The laws of internal ballistics aren't going to let the Norwegian/Swede match the .270 with any bullet weight.
But if muzzle velocity is what you're interested in, with 120-grain bullets my custom 6.5x55 with a 21" Lilja gets around 2950 with Norma 204 and VV N560, which is about what the .270 is capable of with 130's in a 21" barrel. And those are with published data, since the Europeans aren't afraid of publishing modern-pressure loads in the 6.5x55.
You might also check out downrange ballistics for the 6.5x55 with high-BC 129-130 grain bullets at 2800-2900 fps. You might be surprised how well they compare to most 130-grain .270 bullets.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
M D & 260 -- Thanks to both of ya for your responses.
Yes I understand the Swede CAN NOT equal the vel of the 270 with the same bullet weights. Except maybe ONE TIME! <G>
I'm shooting for +/- 3000 fps with 120 gr bullets, AS you list (MD). Since the 6mm Rem is very capable of 3100 fps w/100 gr bullets AND the 6.5 is a larger bore, the 120s should CROWD 3000 w/o running excessive pressure.
I had to wait 6 mo.s to get 6.5 120 NBTs and now we are having a heat wave, temps 95-105F with index approaching 110 F SO I haven't been able to do any testing.
I'm trying IMR 4831, Surplus 4831 first and THEN I may try to find some N560.
I know a lot of guys use N 204 (MRP)-Rl22 but the VARIATION from temp. extremes doesn't interest me.
260 - I don't have any trouble getting 3100 fps in the 270 w/130 gr bullets so IMO you're a little slow.
My Swede is a Win M 70 XTR w/22" bll.
Some of our guys on the 'fire' don't understand OR NEED a flat trajectory but I'm more than use to it and am UNWILLING to sacrifice it.
140-160s in the Swede can't be shot fast enough to flatten out the 'softball' trajectory. I know the BCs of the 6.5 bullets certainly come into play at long range.
However, most of the time I don't have the opportunity to 1.range, 2. dial mils, or turn knobs. With the 6mm and 270 at 3100fps with their BCs, 400 yds requires NO time to make adjustments. I've been using a sighting system since the days of John Wooters et.al. where even at 400 yds you don't have to hold OVER the back line of a WT.
I really appreciate both of you responding and I'm glad to have the opportunity to express my objectives and why.
M D & 260 -- Thanks to both of ya for your responses.
Yes I understand the Swede CAN NOT equal the vel of the 270 with the same bullet weights. Except maybe ONE TIME! <G>
I'm shooting for +/- 3000 fps with 120 gr bullets, AS you list (MD). Since the 6mm Rem is very capable of 3100 fps w/100 gr bullets AND the 6.5 is a larger bore, the 120s should CROWD 3000 w/o running excessive pressure.
I had to wait 6 mo.s to get 6.5 120 NBTs and now we are having a heat wave, temps 95-105F with index approaching 110 F SO I haven't been able to do any testing.
I'm trying IMR 4831, Surplus 4831 first and THEN I may try to find some N560.
I know a lot of guys use N 204 (MRP)-Rl22 but the VARIATION from temp. extremes doesn't interest me.
260 - I don't have any trouble getting 3100 fps in the 270 w/130 gr bullets so IMO you're a little slow.
My Swede is a Win M 70 XTR w/22" bll.
Some of our guys on the 'fire' don't understand OR NEED a flat trajectory but I'm more than use to it and am UNWILLING to sacrifice it.
140-160s in the Swede can't be shot fast enough to flatten out the 'softball' trajectory. I know the BCs of the 6.5 bullets certainly come into play at long range.
However, most of the time I don't have the opportunity to 1.range, 2. dial mils, or turn knobs. With the 6mm and 270 at 3100fps with their BCs, 400 yds requires NO time to make adjustments. I've been using a sighting system since the days of John Wooters et.al. where even at 400 yds you don't have to hold OVER the back line of a WT.
I really appreciate both of you responding and I'm glad to have the opportunity to express my objectives and why.
PS - My Hot Rodding Days are over (mostly) <G>
The sighting system you have using since the Days of Wooters ? Would that be a Duplex reticle ? Sighted in at about 250-270 yards? Use the bottom duplex/crosshair intersection as aiming point at 400 yards?
My reloading hierarchy is accuracy first, bullet selection second, and speed a distant third. I understand that the 270 can go faster than 3,000 fps, but I don't reload for the 270 and that is the approximate speed that I'm clocking at 10' with Winchester/Olin Power Max Bonded and Hornady American Whitetail factory ammo.
If speed is your goal, there are, as with engines, only two reasonable ways to get it, run it hotter or add capacity. The logical step up from the 6.5x55 is the 6.5-284, as it is a simple rechamber job and you gain around 9 grains of case capacity, 57 to 66.
I have Winchester/USRA 70 Fwts in 6.5x55, my "Africa Rifle", and 6.5-284, a rechambered 6.5x55. Despite having a 22" barrel, the 6.5-284 is the fastest of my four. Despite he other three all having 24" barrels, the 70 Fwt is faster with the same load.
You're close. It's +3" at 100yds which will be +/- +4" at 200, and more or less (depending on bullet & vel) ON at 300 yds. and depending again, -7"--9" low at 400 yds.
Mr. Wooters is the first one that I read with that trajectory. He even had a PICTURE of a WT as a target with circles drawn that you could use in you yard or wherever. I'm 'supposed' to still have that, it was a 2 p spread, and haven't seen it lately.
I know, I know - some will likely rant/rave but ask me if I care. It WORKS for me.
I guess that's something I ASSumed, won't happen again.
Your post seemed to focus on achieving maximum speed and your disappointment in not reaching 3K fps with your 6.5x55. You seem agitated by my post, 'sorry 'bout that, as no offense was intended.
While I may prefer to rank accuracy ahead of speed, I know plenty of people who value maximum possible speed and will gladly accept 2-MOA accuracy if they can squeeze out a little more speed. Sort of like the guys back in the 1970s who bought Kawasaki H2s instead of Norton Commandos or Triumph Tridents. Both roads got guys from here to there, they just got there in a little different manner.
I don't accept a 'load' that is only capable of 2" @ 100 yds. either. I really mean that velocity w/o accuracy IS useless. What good does it do to GO 4000 fps and you can't hit your target at let's say 400 yds.
I strive for the 'best' accuracy I can get WITH the most vel.
I obviously misinterpreted your reply to have a condescending/sarcastic edge, which is why I apologized, so as to be in sync with the fifth tenet of the BSA Law.
I built a 6.5x55 for a birthday present to one of my Good Doctor buddies and he loved it. I built myself the 6.5-06 because brass for the 30-06 and 25-06 was easier to come by. If given the choice I just prefer my 7x57 over both 6.5 rounds.
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
With best regards to you, Dwayne, and I apologize for my bodily reaction to your posted thread of the dry heaves.
As it mentiones the .270 Winchester where I expected the 7x57, I trust you will excuse my weak constitution.
Mind over matter let me circumnavigate the shortcoming and to my benefit, I found your thread most insightful and informative, as I have come to expect from you.
And yes if my Swede will do +/- 3000 with 120 with accuracy I will be a happy camper.
SINCE the 6mm R with 100 gr will do 3100---
and
the 270 W with 130 gr will do 3100---
. . . the 6.5 Swede OUGHT to do 3100 with **115s** SO I'll be happy with 3000 fps WITH 120s.
I'm glad to know your results are similar to M Ds, that gives me more hope. I am ONLY waiting for the heat to break to do load development and grouping. I do have time, since our 1st M G season doesn't open till @ mid Oct.
Ready; Thanks for the reply sir, it's been too long since we've chatted and I hope your fine family is doing well.
I do apologize for mentioning the unmentionable to you when you were expecting a more traditional round.
When we first moved to BC two of the rifle/shooting mentors that I fell in with were absolute zealots when it came to being disciples of Jack. The ribbing I used to get for hunting with a .30-06 and allowing my wife to shoot a .308 were merciless and unending.
I actually told another shooting buddy that I'd not hunt with or shoot a .270 while either one was alive, but was forced to recant as after one of them had passed on, the other declared I needed to hunt with a .270, giving me the barrel. He was so anxious that I should have one that we screwed it into a Mauser action I happened to have right then and there!
Anyway I'm sure I had the worst example of a barrel/twist/length/bad karma in that cartridge that ever was.
Before leaving the subject though Ready, I must tell you that after this second friend passed on his son offered me a very nice VZ24 with a brand new, unshot 7x57AI barrel on it - a Shilen at that - for a reasonable price, but for whatever reason I passed on it.
I have few doubts that if I'd started out fooling with a 7x57 instead of the Swede round I'd have been almost as satisfied.....
All the best to you all for the remainder of the summer days Ready and good luck on your hunts this fall.
Don't tell Ingwe & Revmike,but,thinking of getting another 7mm Mauser.
That'll be 3-7mm Mausers just one behind the 4-.270's in the gunsafe.
Maybe a Winchester Super Grade Fwt/lightweight or another Fwt.
I have 4 and am thinking of adding a fifth...if I can talk my BIL out of it reasonably. It's a Cabela SG with beautiful wood. I'd change the bottom metal from aluminum to steel, add irons, and perhaps slim down the fore-end and add a barrel swivel stud; although I generally shoot with a sling and like a rifle to ride a bit higher than most do with barrel swivels, so am not sure about modifying the fore-end. But there you go.
By the way, to the OP's question: I don't have a Swede but have a .260, and it'll scoot. But with .284 bullets available from 100 to 180 grains, I'm not sure I see much need for either. But that's just me.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
behold, a .270 Ingwe on the left, the parent case on the right...
I wonder how that thing would actually shoot.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
Not yet; but if Winchester could get Ingwe to endorse it - you know, show him in Namibia killing stuff with it like they did with Dave Ommanney - I expect sales would skyrocket.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
Not yet; but if Winchester could get Ingwe to endorse it - you know, show him in Namibia killing stuff with it like they did with Dave Ommanney - I expect sales would skyrocket.
They would of course, especially in the gay community.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
jwall - "... who is it that wears a leopard skin thong...". Wait, I know... THONGMAN !!! Faster than a speeding bullet, gayer than Batman & Robin and uglier than Wonder Woman...etc. etc. etc. Only the Shadow knows... Homesteader.
jwall - "... who is it that wears a leopard skin thong...". Wait, I know... THONGMAN !!! Faster than a speeding bullet, gayer than Batman & Robin and uglier than Wonder Woman...etc. etc. etc. Only the Shadow knows... Homesteader.
Your post title had promise, but your mention of going "either way" was bound to draw out mention of the .270, leopard thongs, and other embarrassing stuff.
behold, a .270 Ingwe on the left, the parent case on the right...
I wonder how that thing would actually shoot.
It's actually a very easy case to make, if you want to get a reamer made. Just run a x57 case into a .257 Roberts sizer, then back into a .270 Win sizer.
A .257 AI Bob might be better though, give you a little more case capacity, to make a .270AI Ingwe. But I don't have one of the AI's, nor the dies...
But in fairness to Ingwe I doubt I'd mess with it, unless I had some intermediate action where it would fit well, somehow. So it's really not worthwhile. I'd best say that since Ingwe is a lot bigger than me, and I can't outrun his dog, neither...
I would go 7x57 because I have about 300 150 gr. Remington Core-Lokt sitting. I will probably not use them as lead will be gone from California in 2 years.
Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.
Split the difference. That's what I did. Dave Kiff and I just finalized a reamer print several days back: 6.5x57BR. Print # 42299. It's Lapua 8x57 IS brass, necked down to 6.5 and the shoulder angle blown out to 30 deg. Not so much for extra volume, though it'll add a skootch, but to reduce the number of trips to the case neck trimmer. I sent 5 new, unfired cases to Dave for him to get accurate measurements.
I'm pleased that it only took 6 pages to settle this. A few observations if I may?
There is an limited supply of FPS on this planet. They should be used sparingly. All resources are finite and valuable.
There is an UNlimited supply of MPS (Meters per second for the dimwits amongst us) however. Zeus has so decreed.
Smaller mm dimensions denote, well, smaller mm. Bigger mm dims are more munificent. Be a man, but more importantly, be an interesting man. Eschew the silly mm and a half theory, it will serve you no good.
Live large.
PTO
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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