Home Forums Gear Knives and Blades educate me please ... if you can :)

OK, I'm humbly seeking some knowledge on custom knives. My Buck 110 as served me well over the years but I would like to move up and improve my hunting blade. I would like to learn a little before making a decision.

I would greatly appreciate any of your time you could give to remove my ignorance about some of these things.

I'm seeking a fixed blade knife that will be "used" so it will not be just a pretty looker. It will be carried in my pack or on my side and primarily used to field dress big game. I would want it to hold a sharp edge long enough to field dress and debone an elk (if that is reasonable). I would also want it to skin the game, cut tough tenons at bone joints, etc.

Steels: I see D2, 440c 154cm,...
What and why would you recommend for me?
Is there a danger of getting a steel to hard and it becoming brittle?

I take it that the actual hardness and how the edge behaves is some what controlled by the knife maker as he tempers the steel? And hence it is the "art" part of making a great knife, is that correct?

Panels (or scales?)
Wood? (pros and cons)
Bone/Horn? (pro and cons)
synthetic? (pro and cons)

Bolsters: pro and cons?

Blade shape: I think I would like a skinner or semi-skinner that lean toward a drop point some....

Finish: I like a satin finish, but see some highly polished finishes that looks like they would be easier to wipe clean, but I'm concerned about light scratches that might accumulate and slowly dull a bright finish.

I also see tapered tangs. They do add a different atheistic appearance to the knife, is there more benefit?

Thanks for reading and the feedback, sorry to ramble.

If a guy knows how to heat treat steel, most any of the types will work. If he don't, they won't. I like D2, 154 etc but it's the heat treat that really matters.

Micarta or G10 for scales, everything else is fluff.

Not a fan of bolsters, do nothing.

Blade shape is your preference, less is often more.

You say you want a knife to use, dejoint etc etc then you say you're worried about a scratch on the blade finish. If your worried about a scratch on the blade finish, don't use the knife. Otherwise, [bleep] it and use it.

I think the first aspect of a customknife is the fact that someone took a raw piece of steel and turned it into a fuctional cutting tool, with the absence of computer operated machinery.
There are good steels and better steels. More important is the heat treat process. Most factory production knives are not afforded the time to run multiple thermal cycles and milk out every ounce of performance that steel is capable of. Hardness is give and take, the harder it is the longer it will hold and edge and the harder it will be to sharpen and more brittle. What a custom maker targets is the perfect balance of hardness and servicability.
Handle materials are mainly a matter of personal taste, but the G10 and Micarta scales are damn near indistructable.
Most satin finnishes are so fine that cleaning is not an issue.
Tapered tangs do remove a little weight from the back end giving it a little more forward balance.

As for me, I use D2 and 154 CM and mainly G-10 and Micarta, some wood that has been stabalized.

If that helps any, there are many great and reputable makers on this forum.

Good luck and by the way. Custom knives can be very addicting.

Take a look at Vince's site, he has serveral on hand and ready to ship.

http://www.vcmcustomknives.com/

Something like THIS would serve you well for the money. If you're chomping at the bit for a custom, then go for it. If you're trying to make lots of custom knife decisions and get one in your hand before hunting season in a month or two then I'd look at one of the very well made and usable factory options.

Or you could get something like THIS ONE to tide you over while this year while your full custom is built.

I've gutted and skinned out several deer and elk with THIS little thing, and while it's not the most comfortable, it is very handy size and holds a good edge. Clean up is a snap too.

Lots of good options on both the factory and custom sides of things, and ultimately it's what YOU want that matters.

It all comes down to preference. You need to figure out what's important to you and then find a reputable maker who can meet your needs. I would look through some of the threads posted here and find a maker who fits your style. Give him a call and tell him what your looking for. He should be able to help you with steel and handle material choices as well as give you input on design specifics.

Heat treat, and blade geometry are more important than steel. D2 will stain, so I could never see the point. Synthetic scales are the most durable.

Please explain D2 will stain? I have a pair that have seen dozens of deer, bear, hog, small game etc that I've owned for 11 years. I'd challenge you to find a stain on them.

D2 is decent steel, but it is a semi-stainless steel. The Chromium content is just shy of what is considered a true stainless steel. It will spot up. Glad for ya that you take care of your knives and haven't had an issue, but it don't change the fact that D2 is not a true stainless and will stain. Like I said, I could never see the point.

I hear you, I've read all that before, I know it's not true stainless but I haven't had a problem with staining either.

Besides, they are tools. If God was worried about staining he'd have given us 440c arseholes.

The only times I have seen D2 turn is from gross neglect. Put it in the sheath with blood and fat on it throw it in the floor board till next year. When you pull it out its gonna be knarley. I made my edc from D2 and it has seen 10 fimes more abuse than care. The blade looks like hell but no stains or pitting.

D2 will spot up if you neglect to clean it off prior to putting it away,with certain stuff on it. it also will get a patina ,a little bit from a lot of use ,I have seen this on the internet pics a couple times. Bleach ,straight up,will put spots on D-2 i know this from my own experience.

There are many,many custom knife makers that will use non stainless steel for their blades. All have various reasons.


Synthetic handles are more durable,but in colder temps in the woods ,a wood handled knife won't feel as cold,that's just my opinion on that.

About purchasing a custom knife...One of the first questions I'd ask is,what is your price range & when do you need it by.

Sometimes you can get a real good hand made knife that was pre owned but never used,at a steel of a deal.

Hell, I don't hate carbon steel either. I treat knives well, and a little patina don't bother me. I just don't wanna sell a guy a knife and then have him bitch about spots later cause he didn't know, so I generally avoid D2. BTW, I prefer to keep my tool outa arseholes, stainless or otherwise...

I just got one in from Tom Krein,in A-2 The owner neglected it and it has some spots. Now I listed it on the Krein Knives group on facebook at the price close to what it was new ( I think) It'll be interesting to see if those spots bother the buyer. Also,the owner had bad knife hygeine,lol

PS I should say " potential buyer" Maker's knives are sought after,usually sell fast & easy enough. Big demand

Thanks for all of the replies.
My comments to some points made.

"You say you want a knife to use, dejoint etc etc then you say you're worried about a scratch on the blade finish. If your worried about a scratch on the blade finish, don't use the knife. Otherwise, [bleep] it and use it."
Point made and taken.

"More important is the heat treat process. Most factory production knives are not afforded the time to run multiple thermal cycles and milk out every ounce of performance that steel is capable of."
I definitely learned something here.

"Tapered tangs do remove a little weight from the back end giving it a little more forward balance."
Very important especially packing up the mountain. Believe me, on the evening of the first day of my first elk hunt, I was shucking crap OUT of my pack like nobody’s business.

"Custom knives can be very addicting."
This is a fear I have

"I would look through some of the threads posted here and find a maker who fits your style. Give him a call and tell him what your looking for. He should be able to help you with steel and handle material choices as well as give you input on design specifics."
I think this is the direction I'm headed.

"Heat treat, and blade geometry are more important than steel."
Yea I guess one can mess up a good steel and make the best of a lesser steel.

"price range & when do you need it by"
Based on what I see I would like to stay about 2bills +/- (under would be better ) I can't see me justifying $300+, I'm a fairly patience person besides the 110 is still working great.

"Now I listed it on the Krein Knives group on facebook"
Thanks, but I have not and don't plan to FB.

Again thanks for all of the feedback and the education !!

More is welcome

The $200 range buys a great knife.

The are several great makers here to work with.

It's worse than crack cocaine.

The morning after a bender ,with custom knife purchases,you will have your knives still,unlike booze or drugs,just sayin'

My point about the Krein A-2 carbon knife ,witch sold in a few hours with spots all over it,btw.....
Depending on the maker & the knife,etc. You can get a custom that has already been in someone's collection, sometimes easier & less $that ordering currently. There are many ways to go about obtaining a good hand made knife.

Vince, I have found that buying a pre owned knife from a collector, almost always gets you a prime specimen with very little if any use on it.
Cost won't always be a lot cheaper, but enough so that I don't feel bad about ordering it.

another reason to do so, is that the knife is ready now, and you don't have that awful three to six months wait.

Pre fabricated , you get See how it looks/ came out, too

His price range is around 200. Recently I've sold quite a few knives that were $300 knives for 200 or less or more

Claybreaker,
Vince has always treated me well and gets in a lot of good stuff from other folks collections so you could have a knife by this fall if that's a concern.

For under $200 I think the first guy I would talk to would be Joel Clark (nimrod1949 on the 'fire) His prices are beyond reasonable and he builds a great knife out of top quality materals

Unknowns before they are known is a great way to fly too. I have knives I had made that cost me $60. 10 years later they are selling for $300-400

Steelhead,

My memory could be faulty, but I seem to recall that you posted about your satisfaction with your fine Ingram knives way back about 2002 or 2003... and I wonder if you helped drive his prices up!

Seriously, I hadn't known of Ingram (or May) knives before I joined the 'Fire. Of course, I found about a lot of other things that I need to spend money on here as well!

John

I just looked at Joel's site and see his prices have went up about 35 bucks since I last ordered at the first of the year. I'm sure his wait list is growing steadily too. He is well on his way.

Steelhead is right about the up and comers some good knives to be had for fair prices

Yea, I was to first to post his wares on the 'Fire, much to my chagrin......

Ha! No good deed goes unpunished!

John

Those dudes oughta do you a favor ever once in awhile for bringin' em' tens of thousands of dollars worth of business over the years. The advertisement they've received here alone due to you has been nuthin' short of remarkable. Their work stands on it's own, no doubt about that...but bringin' their good work to light, here, has paid off like a slot machine for em'.

"but bringin' their good work to light, here, has paid off like a slot machine for em'."
FYI:
When you add up the expenses from day one, there just ain't that much money left over. Some however have done better than others, and deservingly so.

Claybreaker---call some makers and have a chat, whether you buy or not.

Tim

You're assuming he hasn't, Gene is a magnificent man. I don't post anything in hopes of getting something for nothing.


I believe your view is pretty slanted.

Good for him. Good business practices are just that.


Agreed. He's a good dude.


I know ya' don't.

I have frequented many knife forums for years. When talking about dedicated hunting knives you will always get a ton of suggestions. I have found that the makers on this forum are some of the best for hunting knives. Thin fairly short blades with good designs that work well for hunting purposes. Ingram, May, Winston, Rosi, and the Menefee's will all serve you well. Those are only the one's I have experience with, I am sure there are more.

I'm of the same mindset as Steelhead with regards to posting pics. I post pics because I'm happy with the product and or the maker. Regarding knife materials, synthetics are the toughest obviously, but Desert Ironwood is tough as nails too.

Claybreaker, Check out Rocky Menefee and Wayne hendrix too.

I just bought a rocky knife off Vince and also spoke with him today about building me another. Rocky is a super guy to talk to and he does business they way it should be done, I think he will be building me some more in the future

Claybreaker,

I have had Dale Atkerson (above) make a couple for me, I sent him a pattern for both and he did a wonderful job. The first one was a very specific tool I wanted with a very heavy blade made in D2. It turned out to be an extraordinary knife that I have used every day for a couple years now and have only sharpened it twice. HEAT TREATMENT does that! I have butchered a dozen-fifteen deer with it. For that kind of heavy duty use having a lot of steel behind the edge truly makes a huge difference in how long it cuts like intended. This spring I had him build another to a specific pattern, his choice of steel and scales. This is a boning knife. He did it in 154 and so far it well exceeds my expectations. It's heat treatment certainly lets it do a lot of work and not go dull. I sharpened it once to put the edge like I wanted it and it's stayed sharp through a decent amount of work I am of the opinion that most good candidate steels will make wonderful knives if the heat treat is good.

I have several superb knives I use for gutting, skinning and disassembling deer or he'd be making me one of those too. I plan on modifying a design of one and having him make me one out of D2.

If you are going to start down the road with a hand made knife choose a pattern and size. Listen to your knife maker's advice about steel. He will know what he can do in heat treatment (or what his heat treat guy can do). D2 is a great place to begin. It's tough and very wear resistant. Proper heat treatment can make it very hard and that keeps it sharp for a very long time. Pick a pattern, pick a maker, discuss it and have one made. You won't get a bad knife and if it isn't what you need, do another.

While I'm still learning myself I'd like to suggest Battle Horse Knives as a step toward a full custom but at reasonable prices.
I bought one back before the split when it was BLIND Horse Knives but the patterns and steel are still available. I got a woodsman pro, which is a little thicker, in O1 tool steel, and I love it as a belt carry tool. It stains easily from anything salty,(blood) or acidic like fruit.(apples) The stains don't bug me at all, and it's about abuse proof in my opinion. (short of the internet hero beating on things with a BFH)
My son just bought a Large Workhorse and it feels very good in hand, geometry is very useful, and is a better slicer than the Woodsman pro.
While I've not been impressed with some of the stainless blades there are some that I've used and would use again. S30v and CPM3v are two I have used and think highly of. I have a couple in ATS34 one custom one production. They hold an edge well but not as good as S30v or CPM3v.

The CPM3v is this one.

CPM 3V is easily one of my favorite blade steels. Triple-ish the impact toughness of D2 with similar wear resistance. I tend to think of it as A2 on steroids. It is not, however, a stainless steel...

CPM3v may not be "stainless" but it stains less than O1, A2, or D2 IME. I've even seen stains show up pretty quick on ATS34. (Gerber pocket knife)

I'm often times recommending blades in S30v if guys are looking for a "better" blade but not interested in customs. The Japan made Kershaw blade is great for the money also.

I'm impressed with CPM3v so far.