Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ernie Spring for MOA Trigger

Folks:

I asked this on another forum but received no answer. For those who have swapped out the spring on an MOA for an Ernie the Gunsmith spring, how low can the trigger pull be adjusted?

Thanks

RM

I brought mine down to 2 lbs and it is now set at 2.5..Factory would not go below 3.2. Hope that helps

RevMike, what is an MOA?


mike r

My 77 Hawkeye was 4.5 lbs. Put Ernie's spring in and its now a nice 2.5 lbs pull. I also put one in a friends Mdl 70 that was horrible and it came out a little under 3.

The trigger on the BACO Win M70.

Yep, that's what I'm after.

Thanks!

Please, I am not being a butthead, what is BACO?

thank you,


mike r

I used an Ernie spring in a Model 70 w/MOA trigger. I don't have a scale, but I'd guess I'm at about 2 to 2-1/2 pounds and I m very happy with the results. It's a great trigger for a factory rifle.

Ha! No problem. Browning Arms Co.

I like the trigger, just want to shave it down to around two pounds or so.

Would this be on the 7x57?

Yep.

What's a "7x57"?

The Ultimate Consummate cartridge.

I have picked up about 500 each of 160 and 175 grain Deep Curls. Adios, puerco!

I just put one of Ernies springs in my daughters Model 70 Featherweight (BACO) in 270 Win with the MOA trigger 2 days ago. Definitely lightened the pull. I had the poundage screw completely out before and it broke about 4 pounds.

I set the pull weight to 3 1/4 pounds, roughly, it's not real consistent, but it may be my old RCBS trigger scale that's partly to blame. It was worth the six bucks.

It made no difference in a 7x57 Featherweight.
And I have a pull gage.

Gonna give it a try. My Zastava Mauser is adjusted to just under 2 pounds with zero creep. I'd like to get by M70 to about the same: 2# would be perfect.

Tonight's bag with the Zastava (7x57 of course):

You have a Zastava 7x57? Tell me more about it.

I've done 5 and the lowest was 2 3/8 pounds with the majority breaking cleanly at 2.5 pounds.....

What do you want to know? Accurate, 24 inch barrel with 1:220mm (1:866 in) twist, excellent bluing, horrible stock finish from factory (I applied 7 coats of TimberLuxe inside and out, boiled linseed oil as needed afterward: better now)...not sure what else to say.

Some communist round...

2 pounds isn't going to happen, contrary to what you hear on the innernet.... Just sayin..

Crud!

Did it come with iron sights?

How much was it?

Did you get a choice of triggers i.e. standard,double trigger and the one you push forward to set it to a lighter pull ala CZ?

Yes it came with irons. There were two stock configurations, and two trigger options: monte carlo or hog back, single or double trigger. The single trigger is a standard adjustable trigger, not a set as CZ. And unless you have a face like a cadaver, the irons aren't entirely useful with the monte carlo. They might be with the hog back, but that's not the one I have. The barrel contour is light with a muzzle diameter .556, as in the Featherweight. As for the cost, I don't remember. $500 NIB maybe?

Euphemism for 280 Remington..........

MM

Rev,in the 2015 catalog they have a choice of triggers,with the set trigger ( like CZ has) as an option.

http://www.zastava-arms.rs/en/civilianproduct/sporting-rifle-m70-standard

Thanks Rev.

The reason I'm asking is I have 7mm bullets from 100 gr all the way up to 175 gr. The 2-7x57's already have a load worked up and don't want to change. So,gonna get another and just shoot these bullets for plinking,varmints and big game.

Rev,what you think of the "American?"

http://www.zastava-arms.rs/sites/de...ting_and_sporting_firearms/index.html#/6

Elk:

The model I have is the standard with monte carlo stock. It has a standard adjustable trigger. The CZ type single set trigger must be something new.

The bluing on the rifle is very good, but the finish on the stock looks like it was applied using a single, well-used Lipton tea bag. Several coats of TimberLuxe and some touch-ups with boiled linseed oil have revealed some pretty nice wood, though. The checkering is pretty poor but, again, we're not dealing with a custom rifle. Oddly enough, the 14.5 inch LOP fits me very well, so I haven't had anything done to it other than changing out the pad, bedding the action, and floating the barrel. I've toyed with this rifle being the start of a semi-custom (slimmed down stock, quarter rib, etc), but so far haven't pursued it.

One item that you might want to consider: I don't know who is importing Zastava right now. FIME/K-Var out of Las Vegas was the importer, but I don't know if they still are. It might be worth a note to both Zastava and FIME to see. The last time I looked, K-Var still had a couple of models but no 7x57s.

Thanks Rev.

Century arms and Fime are the importers for Zastava.

A 14.5 LOP dang,made for Ingwe or gorillas.

Or guys who are 6'1" with 34 inch sleeves.

I'm 6'1" don't know how long my sleeve is though.

Elk:

An interesting side comment regarding LOP: Just about all of the Rigby and WR rifles I see on the various broker sites have LOPs in excess of 14 inches, mostly right around 14.5; and that includes their "magazine" rifles. I sent a note to Simon Clode of Westley Richards to ask about that, and he confirmed that we "across the pond" tend to like our stocks in the sub-14 inch range, while most of the British makers (as well as most other European makers) tend to extend beyond 14 inches, mostly settling between 14.125 and 14.5.

Frankly, I find the longer stocks more comfortable to shoot; but again, I'm 6'1" with a 34 inch sleeve. Couple that with the fact that I'm rarely in more than one layer of clothing, or two light layers, and it seems to make sense for me in the environment in which I hunt. As a matter of fact, I have even begun using a PAST recoil shield when shooting either my MRC ASR (13.625 in.) or M70 (13.75 in), not for recoil reduction, but to add about a half inch to the LOP. Again, it simply feels more comfortable to me in my environment. If I was hunting in snow and/or 30 degree weather, I might think differently.

Mike,

Thanks for the tip about Ernie. I didn't even know he was around. I ordered a couple of his 77/22 springs, one for my RSI and another for the trigger on my 1948 FN which is, to the eye anyway, the same size. Both have Wolffe 77/22 springs, but I had to clip them for weight and a lighter rate, full length spring seems better and safer to me.

I figure for $7, it's worth a try before swapping out an entire trigger unit. I may also contact Ernie to see if they are planning to make one of their varmint springs for the MOA. That is supposed to bring the pull down to between 1.75 and 2.5 pounds. That's a range I'm comfortable with.

Rev.
If you are talking about the trigger return spring….

The place to start is your local hardware store, remove the trigger return spring and take it with you to town.

Go to your favorite hardware store and they will have a display case full of springs, pick one the right diameter with finer wire, pick several they are about fifty cents each.

Cut one to length and try it, repeat until you get what you want, this spring keeps the sear engaged while you are slamming the action around so not to light.


So for cheap you can have the one that pleases you, besides it is a good way to fiddle away an hour or two on Saturday.

I've thought about that; just not terribly confident that I know enough about what I'm doing!

It is a learning experience, after your done slam the bolt a few times to make sure it works OK.

If you don't like what you have done you can replace the original spring or order the after market one.

It is not hard.

I tried the timney replacement trigger and it was horrible(maybe i just got a bad one but it was junk)I even ended up stoning the timney and it didnt help. I bought the ernie trigger spring and it was about the same as the timney in pull weight(but only cost $7)around 2.5lbs. I started playing with stoning the sear and trigger. I used an ultra fine stone and it made a world of difference. I think it was still around 2.5lbs but very crisp.

But IMHO the MOA is junk BACO messed up big time by changing the trigger. The older M70 triggers are awesome if you know what your doing to adjust them. I use ernies varmint springs on the older triggers then stone to take the creep out.

I just replaced another MOA trigger spring with an Ernie's. The pull weight was under 2lbs. without the adjustment screw. Not sure I'd be comfortable at that pull weight, but 2.25 was doable.

The problem with the MOA trigger appears to be tolerance stack. No two appear to be alike when you work on them and I've yet to work on one that is anywhere near as good as their PR states. The one I worked on today was like a military two stage regardless of pull weight.

Probably not going to find one that small. If you have never messed with a moa trigger, you might think about not responding. Hint... Stick to your clay shooting instead..

I can certainly live with 2.25 - 2.5.

I appreciate everyone's input. I'll order a couple of springs today. My BIL has one that he'll probably want to have lightened as well.

Thanks again.

Uh oh BSA getting feisty here on the forums... I figured if someone has gone through the trouble to find the correct spring and wants to charge $7 for it I will buy it. I'm not going to go down to the local hardware sort and dig through bins of springs trying to find the right one. The trigger on my BACo made model 70 is decent. I should order one of these springs, and attempt to do it.

Damn how light do guys like those triggers?

5 BACO's here and not a one needed the trigger touched. Are they coming through heavy today or something?

On my last one I couldn't do much better than about 3.75 and I keep the Classics are 2.75lbs so I swapped in the Ernies. Was able to match the pull weight but it still didn't "feel" like my Classics or Pre64. Not a horrible thing and I thought the trigger was fine, but I'm just picky with the older triggers feel.

I have had/have exactly 2 BACOS and they were about the same , no less then 3.25-3.50 lbs

Well Bob, I like my triggers set at 2.5 pounds. I'm like Scotty and couldn't get mine down less than 3.75 pounds with the factory spring. This was with the adjustment screw all the way out of the trigger. I'm also a huge advocate of the old style trigger because of its simplicity and ease of adjustment and fine tuning. A little polishing of the sear and you are good to go. However, I am not in agreement with him about the MOA not being as nice feeling as the old triggers. I've shot pre 64's, classics and BACO's side by side and compared them and to be honest, the BACO's MOA trigger is smoother as it should be because of the mechanical advantage it has in its operation/design. I know Scotty has asked me in the past if I've had the old design "worked on" to make them smoother and the answer was yes. Maybe not professionally, but when polished out, they are damn nice. Just not as nice and smooth as the MOA's I've had. No denying the mechanical advantage the MOA has over the old style. We love the old trigger, but until a person has many rifles laid out in front of him and shoots all of them in different field positions he'll not have the basis for comparison. BTDT with 5 different BACO rifles and came to the same conclusion... The only old one that came remotely close was my competition rifle made by FN back when FN was turning out good/great stuff. Not the Browning Arms Co. Portuguese chit we are seeing today... . I'd like to throw in the old adage that "YMMV", but I'm thinking if a person gave it an honest try they'll come to the same conclusion I did. If not, they may have gotten a lemon.

Rev, I got the spring for my 77/22 RSI from Ernie and it's lighter than the clipped Wolffe it replaced. Got two so I can put one in my FN .270 as well. The Ruger is very manageable offhand now.

Thanks again (you too Ernie).

That's really good to hear. I picked up a couple: one for my BACO Featherweight and one for the Super Grade I'm going to beg, borrow, or steal from my BIL. I haven't had a chance to install it yet. I'll report back when I do.

Installed the other spring in my Mauser today. Big improvement. There is some after-travel, but the pull is light and crisp. No Timney for me.

I put an Ernie's in my last M70 today. Unlike the last one I did, I could not get the pull below 3lbs. A big improvement over 4.25 and what it should have been capable of being adjusted to in the first place.

Now if someone would come up with a method of getting the 4oz variance out of the MOA pull................

Ultra fine stone on sear and trigger, Making the contact surfaces as smooth as possible was about all i could do to make it break consistantly. I would not recomment this as you can take too much off and be S*** out of luck. You have to completely disassemble the trigger to do this. Its not as easy as just changing the spring. The contact surfaces on sear and trigger had machining marks on them which made the trigger feel gritty to me(dont know how else to explain that)

(Actually, it explains it very well)

The hard part for most of us would be keeping everything square and knowing when to stop (generally before we start).

Would one of you mind telling me the correct punch size on the retaining pins? I don't want to bugger them up with a nail.

Thanks.

Can't say for sure (without pulling a gun apart), but around 1/8". I just eyeball it and grab one out of the set rolling around my toolbox. Not to worry though; the pin holding tbe trigger to the action is very loose in the hole, being held under slight pressure from the spring and also retained within the inletting. It pushes right out, no hammers required (this applies to my Ruger and Mauser. Haven't fiddled with a MOA, but should be similar. INSIDE a MOA is another matter).

Thanks. I haven't pulled it apart yet, but I don't have any punches at all in my tool box. Plenty of nail-sets, but I don't think that'll work.

I'll eyeball it and run by the hardware store and pick one up.

After I posted, I went on Ernie's site and read the 'structions. It's a bit more complex than what I faced, but not bad. I would recommend getting a set of punches as there are a total of three pins to remove and the one on the trigger itself may be a different size. If any of them require the use of any force, you definitely want the correct size. Be sure to get flat punches, not the roll-pin type with the nubbin on the end. An angled tweezers may be helpful as well. The instructions are very clear and well illustrated.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Thanks. I read the instructions on Ernie's site as well. As you said, I'll get a set with different sizes. Actually, since I need a few more screwdriver heads, I might just order the Weaver set that has punches as well as a variety of drivers.

Thanks again.

I just went out and checked mine. It breaks at a clean 2.5 pounds (with a gauge) with Ernies spring. I couldn't get it lower than 3.75 if I recall with factor springs.

My pre 64 breaks at 2.25 pounds.

Despite being a closed system and "not the p64 trigger" the MOA is a pretty good feeling trigger IMO.

I agree, the MOA is by far smoother with less discernable creep than a pre 64 model 70 trigger. The MOA is all about mechanical advantage that the oldstyle trigger doesn't have. With this being said, I still prefer the simplicity of the old trigger...

A 280 wannabe

In the immortal words of Ingwe, "Dat was mean."

It is nothing short of the Ultimate, Consummate Cartridge.



Love, Poobs

Actually, it is just a trifle short, and just a bit too fat in the projectile; about 7 thousandths in fact.