|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 830
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 830 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,376
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,376 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,735
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,735 |
Yeah, I think so. This or any other Euro that you can get for a good price used. I have an S&B with a modified German 4 I got for $600 that I sure as hell won't be able to get more scope/dollar against. I bought a Meopta with a Duplex that I got for $360 that's probably equal scope/dollar, but I don't think chances are very good of doing that again.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
I have a Karl Kaps 4x36 with a 30mm tube and a German number 4, I am very pleased with the purchase.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,082
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,082 |
Meopta - best #4 reticle I've used
Those who must raise their voice to get their point across are generally not intelligent enough to do so in any other way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,375
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,375 |
Swaro Z3 is not nor has not been offered with a #4. You can get one retro-fitted, but it will cost you shipping there plus $170 to Swarovski.
Just sayin'...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,061
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,061 |
I'll second Mr. Tate, I own a few meoptas with #4 reticle have been behind several others. The meopta meopro is the best bang for buck in my opinion.
"If you got it, you got it!" In memory of Pops, gone but never forgotten
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,375
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,375 |
I do love the performance of Meopta scopes and really like their #4 but do wish the center wire were a tad thicker for moonlight use on hogs.
My favorite overall is the discontinued #4 by Zeiss.
As to the question:
#1-Zeiss Diavari Victory 2.5-10x50
#2-Swarovski PV 2.5-10x56
#3-Zeiss Diavari Victory 3-12x56
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Swaro Z3 is not nor has not been offered with a #4. You can get one retro-fitted, but it will cost you shipping there plus $170 to Swarovski.
Just sayin'... Z3 with a 4A reticle are found all over the place .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,375
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,375 |
yes, but no one asked about a 4-a reticle. The #4 and #4-a are NOT the same. And to re-iterate: the Z3 is not and has not been offered with a #4 as a standard listing. THIS is a #4: ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/BobbyTomek/b9d6e0c2-f851-4c5d-8ff8-81a53009b18a_zpscfjgit82.jpg) THIS is a #4-a: ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/BobbyTomek/Swarovski-4A-Reticle_zpsdzosdbns.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
yes, but no one asked about a 4-a reticle. The #4 and #4-a are NOT the same. And to re-iterate: the Z3 is not and has not been offered with a #4 as a standard listing. THIS is a #4: THIS is a #4-a: Who said they were identical?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065 |
IIRC, the swaro 4a on the Z3 3-9 subtends 16" @ 100yds at 9x and the Zeiss #4 subtends 17" @ 100yds at 9x.
It's more company specific than a hard & fast rule
(the center between the heavy posts, that is)
Last edited by tomk; 08/22/15. Reason: center
Defend the Constitution
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
I ain't seen them all, I like the Meopro but agree the center could likely be a little thicker.
I've no use for Swaro rifle scopes.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
IIRC, the swaro 4a on the Z3 3-9 subtends 16" @ 100yds at 9x and the Zeiss #4 subtends 17" @ 100yds at 9x.
It's more company specific than a hard & fast rule
(the center between the heavy posts, that is) Was looking at a Leica 4A and it looks more like a #4
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
I ain't seen them all, I like the Meopro but agree the center could likely be a little thicker.
I've no use for Swaro rifle scopes. Used to buy them, do not miss them at all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065 |
For best in terms of glass for low light I'd go with a fixed S&B 6x42...but dang short mounting latitude and heavy.
Swaro Z3 for a short action...for me
Meopta 6x42 with their #4 can't be wrong to save a buck or two. Great mounting latitude for long or short actions. I like the thin cross-hair in a 4 reticle. If the light gets low enough your eye is going to fill in that gap anyway--and the light will always get low enough to disappear any cross-hair, while still seeing the posts. The posts just gotta be close enough...and they are.
OTOH, the center section in a Leica 4 is enough to drive a truck through
Defend the Constitution
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,412
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,412 |
Here's a Meopta 4C for comparison, I have it in a used 3-12x50 FFP that was a bargain, though no idea on best for money... ![[Linked Image]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6DQNYUcHIK8/Vdf8sBU2kxI/AAAAAAAAGaQ/SR6DZV4uu4E/s200-Ic42/meo4c.png) yes, but no one asked about a 4-a reticle. The #4 and #4-a are NOT the same. And to re-iterate: the Z3 is not and has not been offered with a #4 as a standard listing. THIS is a #4: THIS is a #4-a: Who said they were identical?
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300 |
I passed on the big Meopta 3-12 x 56 once as the illuminated dot covered about 2 inches or so at 100 IIRC, then it was huge as well. I am fond of the #4 in the Meopro fixed 6 x 42, it is on a Kimber montana in 308.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Here's a Meopta 4C for comparison, I have it in a used 3-12x50 FFP that was a bargain, though no idea on best for money... yes, but no one asked about a 4-a reticle. The #4 and #4-a are NOT the same. And to re-iterate: the Z3 is not and has not been offered with a #4 as a standard listing. THIS is a #4: THIS is a #4-a: Who said they were identical? Thats a nice reticle although I wont complain about the 4K i have on my 3-12x56 R1 either
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
For best in terms of glass for low light I'd go with a fixed S&B 6x42...but dang short mounting latitude and heavy.
Swaro Z3 for a short action...for me
Meopta 6x42 with their #4 can't be wrong to save a buck or two. Great mounting latitude for long or short actions. I like the thin cross-hair in a 4 reticle. If the light gets low enough your eye is going to fill in that gap anyway--and the light will always get low enough to disappear any cross-hair, while still seeing the posts. The posts just gotta be close enough...and they are.
OTOH, the center section in a Leica 4 is enough to drive a truck through Ok I have been looking at illustrations of it on the interweb and it appears to not be the case...I would hate to buy the damn thing and thne find out otherwise.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065 |
I have this in notes for the Leica 2.5-10 #4--but it is from a while back...would be best to check
Center section low 2.5 X 193.70"
Center section high 10X 48.30"
Defend the Constitution
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
I have this in notes for the Leica 2.5-10 #4--but it is from a while back...would be best to check
Center section low 2.5 X 193.70"
Center section high 10X 48.30" Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,611
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,611 |
Look guys, over the years the #4 and 4a have been bantered around and changed so much that you better be sure what your getting is what you want. The S&B #4 is about perfect but they put it in scopes that are too short to mount on most rifles. powdr
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
THIS is a #4: THIS is a #4-a: Don't know what your needs are regarding the 4/4a reticle, but the Leica ERi (2.5-10x 42 illuminated reticle) should be looked at too. It's a 30mm scope, but it has a ton of ring mounting space and 4" of ER. Glass is superb !!! ![[Linked Image]](http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r74/RDFinn/Talley%20Sig.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r74/RDFinn/Talley%20Sig%205.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,352
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,352 |
that leica looks sweet! right now i have 3 scopes with #4 reticles. all meopta. 2 with red dot. they work fantastic!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,235
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,235 |
that leica looks sweet! right now i have 3 scopes with #4 reticles. all meopta. 2 with red dot. they work fantastic! Which illuminated #4 do you have, in which scope?
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,352
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,352 |
that leica looks sweet! right now i have 3 scopes with #4 reticles. all meopta. 2 with red dot. they work fantastic! Which illuminated #4 do you have, in which scope? i have the 4C in the 3.5-10x44 and 4C in 3-12x56, regular #4 in the 3-9x42
Last edited by killindeer; 08/26/15.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,235
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,235 |
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 |
"Bang for the buck", you might check out the Zeiss Duralyt 2-8x42 non-illuminated. It's got a #6, similar to a #4, but with double the space between the posts. I've got one and found it a good value. Probably best on a SA as it's not terribly long. As 4 and 4a reticle so go, I like the Kahles CL #4A.
Does anyone know of a reticle subtensions database/wiki?
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,009
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,009 |
I ain't seen them all, I like the Meopro but agree the center could likely be a little thicker.
I've no use for Swaro rifle scopes. Used to buy them, do not miss them at all. The one I had, didn't track for chit. Had to put her down... 
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
|
|
|
|
|
549 members (007FJ, 270winchester, 22250rem, 12344mag, 270wsmnutt, 3040Krag, 51 invisible),
2,217
guests, and
1,208
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,239
Posts18,466,760
Members73,925
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BobbyTomek/media/b9d6e0c2-f851-4c5d-8ff8-81a53009b18a_zpscfjgit82.jpg.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BobbyTomek/media/Swarovski-4A-Reticle_zpsdzosdbns.jpg.html)
