Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Where's the node?

Ringman ain't gonna be happy with that advice.

He's a real Loony and wants to find the absolute best load for that gun. Inquiring minds and such...

You guys are way too practical...

So practical in fact, you're in danger of losing your Loony status...

DF

You have the right idea, however the results are so random that reaching any conclusion from this is futile. A ladder test at 300 yards is IMHO the best way to find the node. Finding a node will allow for some variation in temp and charge weight without having vertical dispersion down range. That can be the difference between a kill, crippled animal, or total miss. Once proper charge weight has been determined, groups can be tightened by varying the bullet seating depth. The final step is to determine the ballistics for the load to as far as you are capable of shooting. I must say that by the ladder test photo shown, I would be hesitant to shoot that rifle beyond 50 yards. It probably won't make minute of pie plate. I had a 6 SLR that I never could get to shoot. I rechambered it to 6 Dasher and my wife now uses it as her target rifle. It shoots sweet. Hopefully, all of this has my looney status high enough to keep me in good standing.

I'd go 400 yds. if possible. With a tight shooting gun, you need separation. I've done that with a good gun, and even at 400 with a great spotting scope, I've had to make several 4 wheeler trips to the target to ID bullet strikes.

DF

There's loonyism, and then there's nuckin futs...

My problem with ladder testing (yeah, I've done it a few times with no avail) is you are running the experiment one time and expecting to hit the jackpot. It's like shooting a single 3-shot group to find an accuracy load.

Not even close.

If an Audette is shot properly and no node is clearly visible, either your rifle doesn't like the components chosen or the rifle itself sucks ass.

That's where the Bullseye target camera system comes in

Looking at the target photo provided, going from 300 to 400 yards will certainly not help. That is obviously not a "tight shooting gun".

Well, I didn't want to talk about Ringman's gun or his groups...

That camera system would be nice, would save time and 4 wheeler trips to the target...

DF

I wouldn't shoot a 400 yd. Audette with a gun that wasn't shooting half MOA at a hundred. That would equate to 2" or so at 400. Those bullets can land pretty close.

DF

and then, if the 'node' is below max, you have the decision to make whether to accept more drift/drop and go with the 'accuracy' load or to load your cartridge to it's potential and give up micro-groups.

You always go with the accuracy load that shows no vertical at long range.

Why would anyone choose the highest velocity load that isn't accurate? ie; a load that has vertical AND horizontal which equates to just plain 'ole BIG GROUPS.

An accurate load with no vertical makes long range shooting a lot easier, regardless if you are leaving 100 fps on the table. Your drops are your drops, period.


For example, you have a long range shot and know the distance (of course). With a load like I'm talking about, you don't worry about the rifle throwing it high or low AND worry about wind.





I can see impacts at over 600 on my targets through the scope. You need to make your own "shoot and see" targets.

Also, finding the node is a lot easier when your entire ladder IS the node.




600 yard ladder with the .264, RL-33 and the 139 Scenar.

The medium Palma Krieger is the best barrel I've owned. I just picked the highest velocity load that didn't show pressure because they all went in the same place at 600. Shot three at 100 to see:

Let me put it another way...

The advantage to a large capacity case is diminished if you don't take advantage of the large capacity case. So if I had to load it down, I'd sell it.




Travis

you'd have to have a really crappy barrel to throw them farther from POA than the wind does in my world, and I don't suffer really crappy barrels.

no, wind is the enemy. I go for speed and if the barrel isn't throwing them POA at full pressure, it goes down the road...

I'm not a stranger to Krieger in .264" bore.

rcamuglia,

One of my .224 wildcats was like that. It was too good to be true for this wannabe shooter. Its first five shot group was .256" and averaged 4,005 feet per second.

Today I loaded twenty-five with number six. Five at the 2.941 and five each at minus -.010", -.020", -.030", and -.040". I read somewhere getting the OAL should be established asap was paramount to maximum accuracy.

I remember when I was enamoured by velocity.


...about the same year I had my first beer.

2013?

I remember being impressed by muzzle velocity, but have always strived for maximum accuracy. That being said, I choose the highest velocity node from my ladder test and work on the accuracy with seating depth. The higher velocity nodes provide the least time in the wind, thus less time for deflection. Even more important in the equation is bullet BC. Go here: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi and see how lighter bullet weights, traveling at higher velocities fare against heavier bullet weights of better BC's, traveling slower. Compare with regards to bullet drop and and wind movement @ a 10 mph crosswind.
That 600 yard ladder test is unreal. I haven't worked with the .264 but I have never shot a 300 yard test with that little amount of change in elevation. What were your powder charges?

I think you'd have to be super UBER special to turn a 26 Nosler into a 6.5 Creed in less than 500 rounds, and be proud of the end results.



Travis

I don't think that will happen to any cartridge that happens to have its best accuracy a grain of 2 short of book max. In fact with the .300 WM ladder I posted, book max was around 74 grains showing a velocity at 2700 or less. I hit pressure at 72.5 grains with a velocity of 2825 and good accuracy just a bit lower. Wind drift difference between the two velocities is 2" at 600 yards.

Check that. It's possible to turn a 26 Nosler into a Creedmoor with Blue Dot!

LOL!