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As the story goes, the Spanish American War taught the US Army that the 30-40 Krag was an inferior rifle to the German Mauser. So they copied the Mauser but with the same .308 diameter 220 grain bullet used in the Krag. They gave it another 200 fps velocity and needed a rimless case for clip loading, resulting in the 30-03 and the 1903 Springfield rifle.
A short time later, they decided that a lighter spitzer bullet was better and settled on a 150 grain bullet (I believe) at 2700 fps. Instead of loading this in 30-03 cases, they shortened the case neck. This required rechambering all the existing Springfields. They called them all back and shortened the barrels one thread, resulting in the 30-06 Springfields having a 23.79" barrel instead of the original 24" barrel.
Why did they go to all this trouble? Why not just load 150 grain bullets in 30-03 cases?
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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As the story goes, the Spanish American War taught the US Army that the 30-40 Krag was an inferior rifle to the German Mauser. So they copied the Mauser but with the same .308 diameter 220 grain bullet used in the Krag. They gave it another 200 fps velocity and needed a rimless case for clip loading, resulting in the 30-03 and the 1903 Springfield rifle.
A short time later, they decided that a lighter spitzer bullet was better and settled on a 150 grain bullet (I believe) at 2700 fps. Instead of loading this in 30-03 cases, they shortened the case neck. This required rechambering all the existing Springfields. They called them all back and shortened the barrels one thread, resulting in the 30-06 Springfields having a 23.79" barrel instead of the original 24" barrel.
Why did they go to all this trouble? Why not just load 150 grain bullets in 30-03 cases?
The cynic in me says "government contracts" to do all the extra work as part of the t&e for a "new" cartridge fit for the USA.
Me
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the cartridge was a resign to optimize for the newly developed spritzer bullet. The gun redesign was adjusting to the new cartridge design.
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They figured some knotthead would use the longer necked cases and neck them down to something ridiculous like 27 cal.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Campfire Kahuna
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Naw, it was so people could bitch about the boring old .30-06.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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I'ts cuz' the 7x57 was already taken!-Muddy
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I'ts cuz' the 7x57 was already taken!-Muddy There's a lot of truth to that. 
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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You guys crack me up. <G>
Relaxing way to go to bed.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Because, one time, man needed to achieve perfection.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Speaking of, I was able to score a good deal on 48 pounds of HiVel #2. Anybody got a good load with that for the ought six?
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Say what you want, but the Springfield Armory provide the Army with small arms that worked well for any given time- The Spainish American War was at a time when small arms and cartridges were in transition, TR sorted it out when he became President and the rest of us got a pretty good hunting cartridge out of the deal They shut down Springfield Armory during LBJ's time- much to the loss of the Army!
"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."
Anton Chekhov
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Campfire Kahuna
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As the story goes, the Spanish American War taught the US Army that the 30-40 Krag was an inferior rifle to the German Mauser. So they copied the Mauser but with the same .308 diameter 220 grain bullet used in the Krag. They gave it another 200 fps velocity and needed a rimless case for clip loading, resulting in the 30-03 and the 1903 Springfield rifle.
A short time later, they decided that a lighter spitzer bullet was better and settled on a 150 grain bullet (I believe) at 2700 fps. Instead of loading this in 30-03 cases, they shortened the case neck. This required rechambering all the existing Springfields. They called them all back and shortened the barrels one thread, resulting in the 30-06 Springfields having a 23.79" barrel instead of the original 24" barrel.
Why did they go to all this trouble? Why not just load 150 grain bullets in 30-03 cases?
The shades of Springfield Armory gather in a mob behind the ghost of Townsend Whelan, and give you the bird. As far as I can see , he's just scowling at the screen, wearing a somewhat disgusted look. GTC.
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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As the story goes, the Spanish American War taught the US Army that the 30-40 Krag was an inferior rifle to the German Mauser. So they copied the Mauser but with the same .308 diameter 220 grain bullet used in the Krag. They gave it another 200 fps velocity and needed a rimless case for clip loading, resulting in the 30-03 and the 1903 Springfield rifle.
A short time later, they decided that a lighter spitzer bullet was better and settled on a 150 grain bullet (I believe) at 2700 fps. Instead of loading this in 30-03 cases, they shortened the case neck. This required rechambering all the existing Springfields. They called them all back and shortened the barrels one thread, resulting in the 30-06 Springfields having a 23.79" barrel instead of the original 24" barrel.
Why did they go to all this trouble? Why not just load 150 grain bullets in 30-03 cases?
I'm guessing it was to fix a minor feed issue. Easier to revamp the brass than to revamp the action. Shod
The 6.5 Swede, Before Gay Was Ok
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Why did they go to all this trouble? Why not just load 150 grain bullets in 30-03 cases?
Maybe to keep the ogive of the shorter spitzer bullet out of the case neck? Who knows?
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Because, one time, man needed to achieve perfection. Yup. God spoke to them and said "Let there be light"
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I think the Spanish had the 7mm Mauser and the Americans had Krags with black powder and trapdoors. The Germans had the 8x57 in 1905 that would do 2900 fps with 150 gr. Work up a load to brass yield, back off a safety margin, and you would have the same load 110 years later. By 1906 the 8mm would be the cartridge to beat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92%C3%9757mm_Mauser http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940564/guns%20of%20the%20spanish.pdf
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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I think the Spanish had the 7mm Mauser and the Americans had Krags with black powder and trapdoors.
The Germans had the 8x57 in 1905 that would do 2900 fps with 150 gr.
By 1906 the 8mm would be the cartridge to beat.
Yes, I've read or read ABOUT that before. MY ? is WHY NOT develop the 06? IMO - NO OTHER cartridge, domestic or foreign, has the successful HISTORY of the "venerable" 30.06 Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
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The reason for the reduced neck length was due to the shorter bearing surface of the new pointed bullet.
Frankford Arsenal experimented from May 1906 with a version of the then new spitzgeschoss (pointed bullet) which the Germans had introduced in the previous year. The FA version was a 150 grain flat based design with a long ogive and short bearing surface of 0.255", on an overall length of 1.15". The bearing surface was much shorter than the round-nosed 220gn of the .30/03, and the case neck was shortened to suit it.
It was then found that the long jump to the rifling with the new design in the existing rifles resulted in poor accuracy, so in the latter half of 1906 the chamber specification was changed, resulting in the need to set back barrels on existing rifles, and on October 1906 - after a very short development time, the Model of 1906 was officially adopted.
It didn't quite end there though. Among other things, the bullet design was soon revised to increase bearing length to 0.33" (July 1907) and then, after problems with holding even that bullet in the neck securely, and trying various crimp methods, the bullet was modified to a cannelured form (Feb 1909). With some minor variations that was more or less it until after WW1.
In 1909 too DWM approached the Ordnance Office about royalties for the copying of their S-ball design, and when this was refused it led to litigation, complicated by WWI, which eventually and somewhat circuitously resolved in DWM's favour.
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Don't you guys read?
The 30-03 was visited by an angel, and told it had found favor with God.
He said to the 30-03 that it would be visited by a Holy Spirit.
9 months later, PERFECTION.
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Probably worth noting that there were other bullet designs tried at Frankford Arsenal too. There had been quite a number trialled in the Krag, for example, of all sorts of designs. In the development of the .30/03 there were several types tested too, including various versions of the 220 gn RN (three cannelure, single cannelure, no cannelure, no cannelure and with a taper to the bearing surface from .308" to .307" at the base) as well as a 180 gn solid copper bullet of streamlined shape based on the French Balle D.
There was also, in 1905, a request for a soft-point bullet for the then President, 100 of which were hand-delivered to the White House.
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So they could neck it down to a 270.
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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I'ts cuz' the 7x57 was already taken!-Muddy There's a lot of truth to that. The Army would have been better off adopting the 7x57 Mauser and licensing the production of the 98 Mauser at Springfield Armory. But it didn't happen
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Except they were already set up to make bunches of .30 caliber barrels and bullets.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Huntz got it 100% right.
The second reason was to provide Mule Deer with a source of brass from which to form 7x57 cases.
Last edited by RinB; 08/24/15.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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Why did they develop the .30-06? So the Campfire would have something to yammer on endlessly about 110 years later, that's why! 
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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i really like my 30-06s. awesome round.
Last edited by roninflag; 08/24/15.
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Jim, pm Hi-Vel I bet he has loads...
Seriously, if you don't find some stuff let me know, I think I have some old reloading books that mention it.
Molon Labe
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'ts cuz' the 7x57 was already taken!-Muddy There's a lot of truth to that. The Army would have been better off adopting the 7x57 Mauser and licensing the production of the 98 Mauser at Springfield Armory. But it didn't happen I've always wondered why the Army Ord Corps just didn't adopt the 7.65x53, either in 7.65mm or 7.62mm bore, in lieu of the 30-40, 30-03, or 30-06.
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Funny how by 1911 We had 7 and 8x57, 3006, 45 Colt, and 45 acp along with their signature guns. Not a rabid fan of any but the Colt, however 104 years ago we already had about everything one could need.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Except they were already set up to make bunches of .30 caliber barrels and bullets. I think this is the logical reason, and the fact, that the 7mm Mauser provided a design model to essentially magnify to .30 cal.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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They shortened the 03 to make it an uneven mm measurement.
TRUMP- GABBARD 2024
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Don't you guys read?
The 30-03 was visited by an angel, and told it had found favor with God.
He said to the 30-03 that it would be visited by a Holy Spirit.
9 months later, PERFECTION.
Yep
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Don't you guys read?
The 30-03 was visited by an angel, and told it had found favor with God.
He said to the 30-03 that it would be visited by a Holy Spirit.
9 months later, PERFECTION.
Yep Perfection didn't come until 1925 when it was necked down to .277.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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I'ts cuz' the 7x57 was already taken!-Muddy There's a lot of truth to that. The Army would have been better off adopting the 7x57 Mauser and licensing the production of the 98 Mauser at Springfield Armory. But it didn't happen Woo-eee - can you imagine the ripple through the space-time continuum if they had downsized the origin? Snooty types would be talking all about "that boring ol' fiddy seben" and saying how W.D.M. was overgunned. Instead of cognescenti shooting deer with fast twist .223's they'd be popping them with heavy for caliber 18 grain bullets from 1 in 6 twist .14 Calhouns. The horror...the horror......
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Guys -
I think there is more to the prejudice against the 7X57 and 8X57 that led to developing the 30 cal. and especially since so much was already invested in it.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
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Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Col Whelan wrote in "Mr Rifleman" that they considered the 7mm as a US service cartridge, but that they decided against it "largely because of our Navy experience" with the 6mm Lee Straight Pull Rifle, "one of the shortcomings being the extreme difficulty of cleaning and keeping the small bore in good condition with the knowledge of barrel cleaning we then had."
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing -- Edmund Burke
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Both the Army and Navy tried a few different calibres during the late 1880s-90s, from .32 down to .22 (.20 was also considered). Rubin's work (and the Swiss 7.5 cartridge, a box of which was acquired for US Ordnance in Paris in 1890) figured in the choice of .30 for the Krag.
The .30-03 was effectively the product of an update of the .30/40, intended to match the velocity of the 7mm Mauser. Initial prototypes included rimmed versions, and then rimless, eventually (and not coincidentally) of a head size and design to suit the Mauser stripper clip.
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The
.276 Pedersen was a better cartridge but the military insisted on .308 caliber.
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Don't you guys read?
The 30-03 was visited by an angel, and told it had found favor with God.
He said to the 30-03 that it would be visited by a Holy Spirit.
9 months later, PERFECTION.
Yep Perfection didn't come until 1925 when it was necked down circumcised to .277. Haven't you read....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Because, one time, man needed to achieve perfection. Yup. God spoke to them and said "Let there be light" And there was light! 
Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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The reason for the reduced neck length was due to the shorter bearing surface of the new pointed bullet.
Frankford Arsenal experimented from May 1906 with a version of the then new spitzgeschoss (pointed bullet) which the Germans had introduced in the previous year. The FA version was a 150 grain flat based design with a long ogive and short bearing surface of 0.255", on an overall length of 1.15". The bearing surface was much shorter than the round-nosed 220gn of the .30/03, and the case neck was shortened to suit it.
It was then found that the long jump to the rifling with the new design in the existing rifles resulted in poor accuracy, so in the latter half of 1906 the chamber specification was changed, resulting in the need to set back barrels on existing rifles, and on October 1906 - after a very short development time, the Model of 1906 was officially adopted.
It didn't quite end there though. Among other things, the bullet design was soon revised to increase bearing length to 0.33" (July 1907) and then, after problems with holding even that bullet in the neck securely, and trying various crimp methods, the bullet was modified to a cannelured form (Feb 1909). With some minor variations that was more or less it until after WW1.
In 1909 too DWM approached the Ordnance Office about royalties for the copying of their S-ball design, and when this was refused it led to litigation, complicated by WWI, which eventually and somewhat circuitously resolved in DWM's favour. This is the correct answer.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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And all along I thought it was so them fella's in the olden days could come up with the .333 OKH 'cause that K guy liked bigger bullets? Or maybe it was so that Ackley guy could improve it?: http://www.nosler.com/30-06-springfield-ackley-improvedI'm really thinking it's because "thirty ought three" does not sound anywhere near as cool as "thirty ought six" or even just plain old "ought six" and they realized their mistake.  Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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V...d --  Actually... OH 3 sounds just as good as... Aught 6. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You might be on to something there with the "OH 3" name.
They maybe wanted to change it to "ought six" to keep from getting confused with another "OH 3" from a certain group of islands to the east!
(I've got a couple of those foreign '03s and I think they're OK, too)
Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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V -
Yep, think so too.
I have my second Rem --- Mod 6 in 30-06
I call it my "606" ! AKA- 6 OH 6.
Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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V -
I call it my "606" ! AKA- 6 OH 6.
Jerry 
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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I wish you could have had a conversation with General Patton!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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As the story goes, the Spanish American War taught the US Army that the 30-40 Krag was an inferior rifle to the German Mauser. So they copied the Mauser but with the same .308 diameter 220 grain bullet used in the Krag. They gave it another 200 fps velocity and needed a rimless case for clip loading, resulting in the 30-03 and the 1903 Springfield rifle.
A short time later, they decided that a lighter spitzer bullet was better and settled on a 150 grain bullet (I believe) at 2700 fps. Instead of loading this in 30-03 cases, they shortened the case neck. This required rechambering all the existing Springfields. They called them all back and shortened the barrels one thread, resulting in the 30-06 Springfields having a 23.79" barrel instead of the original 24" barrel.
Why did they go to all this trouble? Why not just load 150 grain bullets in 30-03 cases? It was actually so some know-it-all could sit around a pub (no forums back then) and proclaim that it was the answer to a question that was never asked.
Last edited by TheBigSky; 09/10/15.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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They developed the '06 so that several years in the future, there would be something with which to compare new cartridges
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So they could take something perfect and turn into something gayish, as in the 2gay70. LOL.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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.............................................Wargames.
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