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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I wonder if these tools (Ranger babes) will ever reflect on the damage their selfish actions will have inflicted on others?
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
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Reality. These 2 just may have passed real Ranger course. Long range damage is real. As in any other politically correct move, in order to get more "career enhancements" the standards WILL be relaxed. Soon enuff women WILL be forced on the Infantry,Armor,Combat Engineers and FA and the worst of the worst will occur. We had at LEAST seven officers relieved by the Battalion Commander because they fuqked up. Women would be nearly impossible to get rid of without SecDef clearance. Firing a man for incompetence is easy. women not so much. Long range this is a very bad idea.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish! ![[Linked Image]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/EvilTwinMar/Sabretooth-1.jpg)
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Reality. These 2 just may have passed real Ranger course. Long range damage is real. As in any other politically correct move, in order to get more "career enhancements" the standards WILL be relaxed. Soon enuff women WILL be forced on the Infantry,Armor,Combat Engineers and FA and the worst of the worst will occur. We had at LEAST seven officers relieved by the Battalion Commander because they fuqked up. Women would be nearly impossible to get rid of without SecDef clearance. Firing a man for incompetence is easy. women not so much. Long range this is a very bad idea.
Oh GOD NO! not the artillery....
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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You detractors are knuckleheads.
Most of the women I know in roles like this worked twice as hard to get there as the men, and I've been in the service for nearly 40 years.
I notice you're not talking smack about all of the men eliminated due to the "lower standards."
These two are trailblazers, and I welcome them into the leadership roles that they have earned. Coming from a man who has, "been there and done that!" Right on David! There's a ringing endorsement... Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
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And what does the female naval aviator have to do with these two female Rangers, except nothing? I expected more critical and strategic thinking from a senior officer or at least it was expected of me when I was one. This is not about two very capable female officers and their admirable achievement. This is about how the country runs the armed services. To say that females do not bring capability to the fight is silly. In my experience serving with them they ranged from really good to really awful, just like men. From a training matrix standpoint they can do the job and increase the readiness of the unit from a paperwork/reporting standpoint. When the train runs off the rails is the burden to accommodate them into the unique environments. This means more berthing and sectioning the ship into increasingly small segments. I'm sure in the ground-based services this is not an issue in battalion but when you get to the field it gets much harder. In addition, it means that you are now mixing sexes of 18-30 year olds in remote stressful environments far away from home. I know what was on my mind when I was 18 (OK, to be fair it's on my mind at 51 too!  ) So ask oneself, does that make us more capable or less capable? Feel free to not like the pregnancy numbers Jorge posted but that does not make them any less true and it's just biology that woman bear the burden of that. It has a very real effect on readiness. That's really the bottom line. Is it worth the benefit to have woman in the deployed services? I can certainly see it in some roles and locations but I find it hard to believe it is worth it as deployed Rangers or in Attack Submarines or some other close quarter isolation scenarios. I'm no bigot here but the Military isn't there to be "fair" or "equal". It's there to be a irresistible force. In some cases woman add to that equation, in some cases they don't. While it's cool to think about that tip of the spear, the reality is the logistics and undercarriage of the military have to support that tip and that gets much harder the further you get in the field. With a few women it gets a lot harder and the benefit is much smaller than the burden.
If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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One can never downplay the role of sex here, and there is no denying, you get prego, you are out of the loop.
YOu won't rid the service of sex, they find it at that age and those circumstances one way or another.
That being said, I"ve always said need to be judged by your performance and nothing else.
Unfortunately how things roll with .gov, that has not happened and won't happen in the future I suspect.
THere are many good points here, I just hate all the derogatory comments about bleeders and such..
There are more than a few women capable, they should have a chance, there are more than a few men that are never capable, they should be weeded out also.
Might be a flip flop of 80/20- 20/80 or such, but to be faulted for your sex is as bad as to be faulted for your race.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856 |
Well, i guess that means youre just another male chauvanist for wanting to hold women back, Pugs. 
Last edited by eyeball; 08/24/15.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2011
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The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,390 |
I expected more critical and strategic thinking from a senior officer or at least it was expected of me when I was one. My replies here might seem quick and trivial, but I have had for some time, women up and down my chain of command. My observation is and will be, after 40 years of critical analysis, that women bring more to the fight than they take away from the fight. Simply stated, but critically analyzed, they are worth the extra effort. I'm all about critical analysis, based solely on observed facts.
Last edited by David_Walter; 08/24/15.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Jorge,
A lot women not in college the age of an E-4 and below are having babies. Just observing out loud.
So are their Navy spouses. However, only the women show the physical signs.
So, what's the point??? The point? the point is the get to stay home and BTW, most are single parent. The Navy, and for that matter the armed forces isn't the place for social experimentation and until someone produces valid and measurable data the services' combat readiness has improved because of females, then we can start to discuss this and even then, you will never get rid of the man/woman dynamic. Women don't belong in the combat arms and had they been any good, we would have been using them since we started fighting wars.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 42,607 |
And what does the female naval aviator have to do with these two female Rangers, except nothing? [/quote] With that comment, I can only assume you have zero knowledge of the combat arms and the physical standards that USED to be a requirement for Naval Aviation. I suggest you read up on the nightmare our flyers, from all branches went through as POWs, evasion escape during Vietnam and other wars and oh yes, what happened to the three (3) females that became POWs during Desert Storm and OIF
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I have better than working knowledge of "Combat Arms." I've had troops in combat and command in combat.
What I know is that under 1% of the population of the US serves in the military, and I can't exclude over 50% of the population from participation if I wish to adequately defend the Republic and the Constitution.
Like it or not, we have to fight with the tools we are given, and improvise and adapt to the realities of now, not of yesterday.
As Jeff Cooper was quoted "The past is a different country. They do things differently there."
I have to fight today's fight with the realities of today. Reflection on yesterday, while a useful tool to prevent repeated mishaps or misadventure, is just that.
The way forward includes women in combat. You'd do better to fight the rising tide than to think you're going to change this reality.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 12,806 |
women bring more to the fight than they take away from the fight.
Simply stated, but critically analyzed, they are worth the extra effort.
What is it that women bring to a fight that men lack?
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Posts: 42,607
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 42,607 |
I
The way forward includes women in combat. You'd do better to fight the rising tide than to think you're going to change this reality. Until we get into a real war. They would have been a BIG help at Bastogne, Iwo Jima, or Khe Sahn.... At least the "rising tide" means we have to accept it even at the expense of combat readiness, sacrificed on the altar of political correctness. Had they been any good civilization would have incorporated them ten thousand years ago. As to fighting it, I KNOW the facts, I was in the middle of the issue when it first came to light thanks to Clinton, most experts as well as historical data told us not to do it, and we did it anyway with predicted results; Lower standards to include discipline and social experimentation with men carrying the water. A stroke of a pen doesn't make them warriors. Besides, I'm retired, and given what is going on today, I'm 61 and IDGAF...
Last edited by jorgeI; 08/24/15.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,390
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,390 |
Jorge,
Obviously, you do GAF or you would not have commented. I GAF, too. My reality is making this work. Have I critically assessed the pluses and minuses? Yup.
I still have to make it work.
Barry,
Women have better long term stamina and a higher pain threshold, among other things.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,091
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,091 |
And what does the female naval aviator have to do with these two female Rangers, except nothing? I expected more critical and strategic thinking from a senior officer or at least it was expected of me when I was one. This is not about two very capable female officers and their admirable achievement. This is about how the country runs the armed services. To say that females do not bring capability to the fight is silly. In my experience serving with them they ranged from really good to really awful, just like men. From a training matrix standpoint they can do the job and increase the readiness of the unit from a paperwork/reporting standpoint. When the train runs off the rails is the burden to accommodate them into the unique environments. This means more berthing and sectioning the ship into increasingly small segments. I'm sure in the ground-based services this is not an issue in battalion but when you get to the field it gets much harder. In addition, it means that you are now mixing sexes of 18-30 year olds in remote stressful environments far away from home. I know what was on my mind when I was 18 (OK, to be fair it's on my mind at 51 too! ) So ask oneself, does that make us more capable or less capable? Feel free to not like the pregnancy numbers Jorge posted but that does not make them any less true and it's just biology that woman bear the burden of that. It has a very real effect on readiness. That's really the bottom line. Is it worth the benefit to have woman in the deployed services? I can certainly see it in some roles and locations but I find it hard to believe it is worth it as deployed Rangers or in Attack Submarines or some other close quarter isolation scenarios. I'm no bigot here but the Military isn't there to be "fair" or "equal". It's there to be a irresistible force. In some cases woman add to that equation, in some cases they don't. While it's cool to think about that tip of the spear, the reality is the logistics and undercarriage of the military have to support that tip and that gets much harder the further you get in the field. With a few women it gets a lot harder and the benefit is much smaller than the burden. Great post Pugs....though points off for not mentioning sandwiches anywhere. 9.6
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Posts: 154
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Jorge,
Obviously, you do GAF or you would not have commented. I GAF, too. My reality is making this work. Have I critically assessed the pluses and minuses? Yup.
I still have to make it work.
Barry,
Women have better long term stamina and a higher pain threshold, among other things. Please spell out your plus's vs. minuses of these 2 women Rangers in Combat? You might be a good Air Force Officer, but you have no clue what you are talking about regarding SOC.
Last edited by PopeYoung; 08/24/15.
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Posts: 42,607
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,607 |
I still have to make it work.
Barry,
"make it work" say it all. Work with less than optimum factors. I also find it telling you didn't address any of the facts I presented, or at most, answered with irrelevancy, like "women get pregnant in the civilian side too". They bring NOTHING to the fight other than distractions and overall MUCH less survivability in sustained combat operations.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806 |
Women have better long term stamina
How do you square that with this woman's experience? https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/i...says-battle-tested-female-marine-captain
a higher pain threshold, among other things.
What advantage has that been in combat? Can you tell us about any mission that would have failed without a woman's higher pain threshold?
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
This man, who is a Ranger and Green Beret of long service, encapsulates this situation very well in my opinion: Well...
Lets look at it this way:
...social experimentation with the military has ALREADY made it legal for two rangers to have sex without fear of reprisal.
...at least now, rangers will be able to have sex with other rangers the way nature intended
silver lining in every cloud gentlemen...
...now get back to work, we have social experiments to conduct
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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