Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Case Closed: FBI Says 9mm Is The Best Pistol Round

Do you prefer number 4 buck or 00?

If you take a statistics class they would say you need to shoot one hundred people with each pistol/ammo combination in order to have a valid
study. Does the FBI do this?
whelennut

And right there is the crux of the matter. There has never been a 'shortcut' to the ability to use a substantial sidearm under pressure.

It requires intimate familiarity with your sidearm. Aside from being politically incorrect, that requires a commitment of time, money and effort on the part of the shooter. It is simply easier to issue a smaller caliber that kicks less; and to compensate for lousy shooting with hi-cap magazines. A federal LE agency lowered the bar to accommodate today's non-shooting candidate. Big surprise there.

On a personal note, I've shot a few deer with handguns; carried a gun in harms way most of my life and had to use one on occasion. Most people will quit their mischief if you shoot them with lug nut from a wrist rocket.

Determined, drugged and jihadist assailants are another story. So are attacking carnivores, once they've decided they're going to separate you from your on-board sources of life support and recreation. All those have to be busted down and shot to the ground.

No way in hell I'd choose a 9mm as my primary carry. But I don't mind if you do.

Yes and no.

Most of the field data is ascertained by reports from all departments and agencies in the country.

The actual apples to apples (read laboratory) comparisons are done at Quantico.




Travis

Those who prepare these studies assign arbitrary value factors to whatever qualities they decide to.

This is not the first time that the Fat, Bald, and Ignorant have closed the case on cartridge selection. Likely not the last.

They use data from the field to determine importance.

And the report is for finding the optimum cartridge for law enforcement departments/agencies. Not every citizen in the country.




Travis

In another 10 years, there will be another "stunning revelation" of some sort, saying bigger is better, and all the previous reports were wrong. It's a goobermint entity, it's bound to eff up whatever it's talking about.


I don't own any 9mms currently, so I guess I'll just stick with that old Colt pistol that is working well enough. It's not a 9mm, so I guess I'll be undergunned a bit, but I can shoot that thing, so I'll muddle thru with my .45 for awhile longer, and just hit what I'm shooting at.

I've comfortably carried a lot of different 9mms in the past, I like them, but I like the 1911 in my hand better. Not to say a BHP or CZ-75 isn't good, or even a G19, they all work if you shoot them straight.

None of them work worth a damn if you don't hit what you're shooting at. Maybe the Feds oughta work on THAT instead of the tools.

Dave

yeah, the F.B.I. source of all knowlege. Talking to one of them a few years back counting the days to retirement, at the time pretty close. He was carrying this little ankle semi auto with these 9mm pills i had to order out of state. Think about 30%over sammi spec for the caliber.
He was also a firearms instructor at quantico. After a class some of the new agents asked him what he meant by a "wheel gun." He was shaking his head.
I have nothing against the 9mm with the right loads in it.
But i think you are trying to find a common denominator that works for all kinds of people, not considering some might be more capable than others.

The "all kinds of people" in the FBI's case includes lawyers, accountants, linguists and IT types that most police agencies don't need in great quantities. While the "high end" people may do better with the 9 than other calibers, the real need probably is to get the non-gun/specialty-field types through the qualification.

I doubt they can write that in a published report.

It's the I'm a tough guy thing . Just like teaching firearms or self defence class who listen best men or women (as a general rule )

The army determined that in 1946. There has never been any test, study, or research that proved 45 was any better. But most people believed it so because they heard someone say it was. From a purely ballistic standpoint I believe 40 or 10mm has a slight edge over either 45 or 9mm. But not enough to offset the negatives.

You tend to do that when you're employing 20-30,000 armed personnel.




Travis

I just went back and reread this. The FBI is not saying the 9mm is the best cartridge for gunfighting. They are saying that considering all the factors that are important to their agency it is the best option for them.
Huge difference.

Almost.

They're speaking to law enforcement in general.



Travis

Heaven forbid a group of people who carry guns for a living should ever re-evaluate their choice in firearms or ammunition or even (gasp) change something.

We really should all be carrying flintlocks. I mean, if you change your opinion about something that's pretty suspicious.

LOL! Gun forum people probably change things much more frequently than the FBI.

I remember when they thought a 2.5" Model 66 S&W
was the cats ass.
whelennut

MontanaMan,

thank you for the good words. i enjoy reading your very informative writings on the 1911's...


Sarge, as always--a well written post.


while not necessarily applicable to the given topic--i thought i might share these thoughts:


without a doubt, most will agree that hangunners using decent 9 mm rigs do better in speed and precision than with .40 S&W or .45 auto. (of course those same handgunners do better with the .22 LR given a respectable rig, such as a High Standard, Ruger mk2, Beretta Jaguar, etc.--a cartridge that can be "sufficient"--yet not ideal).

i consider the 9 mm a fine rig for CC, and like the 9 mm rigs alot--especially the H&K p7 m13 platform. without a doubt it is my favorite handgun cartridge to go out to the range with.

i've little use, or respect for the .40 S&W--in my mind an "answer" to a problem that didn't exist. the round is hard on rigs, and in my experience is not very accurate at the unusual "longer handgun ranges" of 35--50 yards.

while most self defense rigs are likely to be utilized at the shorter ranges of about 3--12 yards, i think it is important to have some level of accurate capability with the rigs--out to 35 yards, and even 50 yards (refrain from the "that's what a rifle is for" type of comments).

over the years, i've noted that at the 50 yard line if firing at either a paper plate, or a milk jug--i can make fairly consistent hits with a cross section of various .45 auto rigs. my success with the 9 mm is less frequent--in fact, i've found that the plate or jug needs to be at the 35 yard line for near equal accuracy. with the .40 S&W the success rate is much lower yet.

i find the .45 auto to be the most accurate of the 3 cartridges, and the round is fairly easy on rigs. if toted in a H&K USP, loads can be increased, to some advantages in some situations--ie., in the woods settings, etc.

i don't concern myself too much with the "goblins", and whether or not the 9 mm is adequate. most informed handgunners know that it can be sufficient. it's the big, aggressive dogs (and in wood's settings, other critters), that concern me--one only has to be bitten once by an aggressive dog to fully understand this--for they can cause significant injury.

in the mid 1960's, i was bitten by a dog out in the country. a fair amount of damage to my leg, requiring a visit to the ER. i was the 4th victim to that dog, and subsequently, the dog was ordered to be put down. this bite still causes some problems today--nearly 50 years later.

in the 60's it was German Shepherds that were popular, in the 70's it was the Dobermans, the 80's and 90's the Rottwielers--and today--the Pit Bulls (read that "land sharks"), and Canarios, etc. while on a walk the other night, i saw 3 Pits in a half hour's time. last night a person pulled up across the street and got out with a large Pit--he had a hold on the collar, but it was lunging, trying to get loose from him to get at the neighbor's cat that the dog spotted in the hedge.

my oldest brother just retired from 3+ decades in LE. he mentioned that large, aggressive dogs were often an issue for them. while it may not be a real significant, pressing issue, if a handgun is needed for defense/protection, in my opinion i believe that an indivdual CC citizen--or LEO--is likely to do better in a situation involving the bigger attacking dogs when launching somewhat heavier, bigger diameter pills...and this is at least one reason why i prefer the .45 auto to the 9 mm...

000 for me, bigger is better.