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Just an observation here. Christians and Navy Seals have a lot in common, in that everybody that claims to be one, ain't. miles


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Originally Posted by milespatton
Just an observation here. Christians and Navy Seals have a lot in common, in that everybody that claims to be one, ain't. miles


X......wrong!

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Everyone is SOOOO lucky and appreciative of your self-proclaimed, indisputable observations.

Originally Posted by milespatton
Just an observation here. Christians and Navy Seals have a lot in common, in that everybody that claims to be one, ain't. miles


"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

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Everyone is SOOOO lucky and appreciative of your self-proclaimed, indisputable observations.


I thought so too. Glad that I am getting the recognition that I deserve. grin miles


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Originally Posted by milespatton
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Everyone is SOOOO lucky and appreciative of your self-proclaimed, indisputable observations.


I thought so too. Glad that I am getting the recognition that I deserve. grin miles


Most of us have recognized your brilliance for years...... even when you are just stating an obvious truth.


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Originally Posted by MojoHand
Many of the response to this thread were just...WOW!

George, RWE, Werner, Eyeball, JGRaider...

Just...WOW!

They are the ones who others referenced as Christians who drive others away.


How so, if I may ask?


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Originally Posted by MIKEWERNER
Everyone is SOOOO lucky and appreciative of your self-proclaimed, indisputable observations.

Originally Posted by milespatton
Just an observation here. Christians and Navy Seals have a lot in common, in that everybody that claims to be one, ain't. miles

They are more accurate than yours because the proof can be seen


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It seems to me that the human mind is constructed in such a way that we can never accept a negative proposition with the same degree of certainty we accord a positive affirmation.

God either IS....... or He is NOT.

Once a man has become CONVINCED that He IS, in a Supernatural method of conviction, the question is forever settled in his mind.

It is impossible for the Atheist to hold his unbelief with the same conviction.

I think that explains in part why they continually attempt to engage in debates with believers.

It ain't US they are arguing with.

It's either themselves... or SOMEONE else. grin


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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by MojoHand
Many of the response to this thread were just...WOW!

George, RWE, Werner, Eyeball, JGRaider...

Just...WOW!

They are the ones who others referenced as Christians who drive others away.


How so, if I may ask?

All you have to do is read and be honest with yourself.


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Originally Posted by BobinNH
I'd rather leave the question of the true existence of a deity open,neither proved nor disproved. I am not interested in absolute answers. Some matters are best left to faith.

On the issue of "honesty", you are as likely to be screwed over by an atheist as a Christian,and more likely by members of certain sects whose religion considers it an obligation to lie to infidels.

Honesty is probably a Christian value of human conduct,along with others that we hold as self evident in our society,and TRY to practice but no one, regardless of belief or religion,can follow scrupulously.Because we are humans. But this does not mean that we can't have "standards" of conduct.And religion and faith have provided those "standards",whether you are an atheist or true believer.We see them everywhere in our legal system.

I do know one thing.....in the political context,you better believe in something. Because if you don't,you open the door to questions such as where your rights come from;whether you are born with them, or whether they are granted by men through government.And if so, they can be taken away by those men or governments.

This is the underpinning of our Constitutional system. Attack religion,abandon it altogether,and the rest crumbles. Watch out what you do.


Great answer, yup.

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Perhaps I am not exposing the appropriate buttons to push. grin

Originally Posted by Snyper
Originally Posted by MIKEWERNER
Everyone is SOOOO lucky and appreciative of your self-proclaimed, indisputable observations.

Originally Posted by milespatton
Just an observation here. Christians and Navy Seals have a lot in common, in that everybody that claims to be one, ain't. miles

They are more accurate than yours because the proof can be seen


"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by oldtrapper
"Our world is amazing, wonderful and complex, but we can explain it all without invoking a creator."

A very bold assertion, indeed. Just saying.

When you can create or destroy matter or energy, get back to me.


We are already able to destroy matter and convert it into energy. We do it with nuclear power plants, and with atomic and nuclear weapons.

We are also able to smash protons into subatomic particles that quickly decay in particle accelerators.

So on this question, you are about 70 years behind the times.




BWahahahahha. Since when is converting one thing to another destroying it? You can't. But an ok try, I guess. While we are at it, why don't you tell us how to change the rules of nature, ya know like gravity. And further, where did they come from?

Your hubris is complete, grasshopper. ;-{>8


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OP: "Are Atheists more honest than Christians?"
Having thought about that question (also having read many of the responding posts, and thought about a few) I have just about decided that the question is not answerable as posed (at least, not by me). The scope of the inquiry leads to some questions:

Which kinds of Atheists vs. which kinds of Christians?

From whence comes the definition of "honesty" to be used in the assessment - some human definition of honesty, or some definition provided by God in the Holy Bible? Or?

What criteria are being used to determine "more" honest?

(Just for openers.)



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bottom line is that conditions remain as they always were. that is: we don't know from whence we came, where we are, and least of all where we are headed next. I think the Great Mystery has taken all of our mindsets into consideration as the game moves forward.

or as some Buddhists are fond of saying: just keep paddling or swimming. the far shore is out there.


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Originally Posted by curdog4570
Thanks for your story. I grew up hearing such tales told with the same conviction, so when I've been the recipient of such "visions" as yours, I was not quick to try and explain them away.

Those "Riff-Raff Pointers", as I knew them, were crosses between English Pointers and English Setters.

When you mate two dogs that each point birds, you are almost certain to get pups that will point birds.

But a couple of human Believers are apt to beget a child that declares from the outset that there ain't a damned thing in the Universe superior to his own intellect.



You are the first person I can remember in years who recognized the term riff raff pointers. Best bird dogs ever - and they hunted in male/female pairs with incredible work ethic and strategy.

Last paragraph ... well stated. Very well stated. Nice analogy.


Originally Posted by curdog4570
It seems to me that the human mind is constructed in such a way that we can never accept a negative proposition with the same degree of certainty we accord a positive affirmation.

God either IS....... or He is NOT.

Once a man has become CONVINCED that He IS, in a Supernatural method of conviction, the question is forever settled in his mind.

It is impossible for the Atheist to hold his unbelief with the same conviction.

I think that explains in part why they continually attempt to engage in debates with believers.

It ain't US they are arguing with.

It's either themselves... or SOMEONE else. grin


That is probably one of the more eloquently expressed ways of saying we're not going to ever change their minds, that I have ever read.

With that, ironically, the pushed verse from my Daily Bible app this morning was from 2 Timothy 2:2 "and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also."


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Putin and Hillary are great examples of living by Atheist values.


Islam is a terrorist organization.

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Originally Posted by eyeball
Thanks for probably the best post ive ever read, however some here would ask why you didnt get a picture of your young grandad and others can explain your experience away due to stress, fear or fever. You know, if it didnt happen to them ....


... you're right, and I've heard it all over the years - although I rarely share the story.

Guys from my old unit, when we have our reunions, they always ask me to retell it. Others have their own stories to tell - many of us have experienced similar things.

It's a shame really, but the millennials are being taught to be disbelievers of all things spiritual. Yet humans have existed as spiritual beings for millennia. It all seems against nature IMHO ... and it will backfire on us - once we disengage ourselves, as a species, from our precarious connection to this world.


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Originally Posted by BarryC
Putin and Hillary are great examples of living by Atheist values.


... and Obama for that matter.

As a matter of fact that's another irony we are witnessing these days from the anti-religious religion. The atheists' playbook, including Obama and Hillary, is Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals.

Some people are aware that Obama refers to it as his bible, and that Hillary was close personal friends with Alinsky to the point where many claim she had an affair with him as evidenced by her letters to him as his disciple.

BUT, even fewer are aware of the preface to Alinsky's book and the dedication to Lucifer, as follows:

Quote
“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer


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Originally Posted by MIKEWERNER
Perhaps I am not exposing the appropriate buttons to push. grin

There you go again, thinking it's all about you.


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if memory serves, Jesus was a dissident if not totally a revolutionary.

disrupting the status quo will cause much dissonance.

that's what this country and the world is facing now.

technology serves to unbalance the status quo.

looking at a global picture of the Urth reveals no boundary lines whatsoever.

but what could that possibly mean?


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