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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,563
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,563 |
I have had some people tell me how darn cool that are I have been doing some mall cop research online I have not been able to shoot one but for the cost I dont see it being that cool
If it were 600 to 700 looks like a cool toy but at 1600 to 1800 it looses a bit of luster
Am I just missing it?
Hank
Thank You Lord for another day,Help my Brother along the way
When you mature,you realize hospitals and schools are businesses,and the Beatles were geniuses
Live Like A Champion Today
NRA EndowmentLife Member,My Daughter is also a Life Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
I'm not sure either. The guy that does my transfers aquired one recently. He changed out the trigger and raves about it. He says it's accurate, fast and handles well. I've handled it but haven't shot it yet. Most of it's mass is further back than on an AR and it feels good shouldered. The part that I don't think I would like is the muzzle is pretty close to my face. I bet it's loud.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,563
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,563 |
The cool thing its its sold as a carbine no stamp required and still has a 15in barrel for velosity
Hank
Thank You Lord for another day,Help my Brother along the way
When you mature,you realize hospitals and schools are businesses,and the Beatles were geniuses
Live Like A Champion Today
NRA EndowmentLife Member,My Daughter is also a Life Member
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 19,495
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 19,495 |
It's a nice bullpup. But, in handling one, it seemed very unbalanced to me. But it is a nice convenient and compact carbine.
Retired cat herder.
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
I have had some people tell me how darn cool that are I have been doing some mall cop research online I have not been able to shoot one but for the cost I dont see it being that cool
If it were 600 to 700 looks like a cool toy but at 1600 to 1800 it looses a bit of luster
Am I just missing it?
Hank I felt the same about the AUG too. Bought one, it was cool, but expected more for an $1800 rifle. For half that price, I'd buy another, but I think most of the price is because it's foreign.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
a fellow firefighter loves Israel, all... and so bought one.
I'm not overly impressed with it, but then again I"m SO used to a normal AR that has an effect on my opinion.
When you pay that much to have a less accurate piston gun that has to have the trigger replaced with an expensive one to start with.....
Now if someone gave me one, tis possible to get used to it and end up liking it more... you never know.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300 |
What can it do better than a 16 inch ar?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Well, being OAL shorter, it could be handier in tight quarters, where triggers and accuracy doesn't much matter.
You could learn to deal wiht the balance either better or worse, but only running a couple thousand rounds through one could answer the question for each person.
Beyond that, I dunno, I never was after polished chrome wrenches. Don't even care if the wrench has a bit of rust as long as its solid and works right.
Can't say if this is chrome or not. I'd say its mostly a chrome thing IMHO.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,164
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,164 |
What can it do better than a 16 inch ar? ^^^This^^^
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 |
Bullpups are one of those ideas that seems great on paper, yet falls far short in reality. When tested and measured for accuracy, speed, handling, manipulations- pretty much every aspect that matters for a practical/combat carbine, they pale in comparison to the M16/M4 family of weapons. Their sole "benefit" is reduced overall length with a longer barrel for higher velocity. Yet not only is that not always a good thing when trying to hit targets, it is no longer a problem.
There is ammo available that will expand/fragment in excess of 400m from a 10.5in barrel. Anyone issued 10.5's in the military have at least two types and civilians have no such problems.
The balance of bullpups are only in carrying them. They suck for shooting. There is a reason (or lots and lots of reasons) that every single unit/organization that has a choice, chooses an M4 based weapon. Even in countries that issue bullpups- the "special" units use M4's or a variation thereof.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Thats interesting info on the spec forces in all countries running an M4 type instead.
I still have no interest in trying, and certainly not at that cost. As the current platform works.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
What can it do better than a 16 inch ar? ^^^This^^^ This^
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,199
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,199 |
What can it do better than a 16 inch ar? It lets you pivot and watch your six in a shoulder width underground tunnel without lowering your weapon. Just saying
Last edited by Bushmaster1313; 09/05/15.
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,336
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,336 |
What can it do better than a 16 inch ar? This^^^^^^ I went through a bull pup phase. I just absolutely thought I had to have. I had an MSAR and a RFB. I have neither now. Lol
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,158
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,158 |
Bullpups do what they do well...be compact. But reloading is arduous and a long transfer trigger mechanism is almost impossible to make crisp.
TRUMP- GABBARD 2024
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,508
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,508 |
It's a nice bullpup. But, in handling one, it seemed very unbalanced to me. But it is a nice convenient and compact carbine. You get used to the difference in weight distribution fast. You're just used to the forward heaviness of an AR carbine. You also quickly appreciate the intuitiveness of the operations compared to an AR. It does, however, require a switch out of the issue trigger component to a Geissele drop in replacement. The original trigger is god awful. With the Geissele, it's an awesome rifle. Piston operated, too, so clean and reliable. Not to mention, you have what's functionally an SBR, without the paperwork and government supervision, and without giving up a normal length barrel.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,508
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,508 |
What can it do better than a 16 inch ar? ^^^This^^^ This^ Because of the rearward weight distribution, you can actually hold it at the ready, and able to fire it, with one arm while using your other arm to open doors and such.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
I have had some people tell me how darn cool that are I have been doing some mall cop research online I have not been able to shoot one but for the cost I dont see it being that cool
If it were 600 to 700 looks like a cool toy but at 1600 to 1800 it looses a bit of luster
Am I just missing it?
Hank Junk. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,508
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,508 |
You've wrung one out pretty good, have you? What about it causes you to conclude it's junk?
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,168
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,168 |
I picked up a Tavor a couple months ago. SO far it's so-so. Trigger is horendous to put it lightly. My trigger scale goes to 10lbs and it takes considerable force beyond that! Accuracy is decent and I'm only shooting it with XM193 ammo and an EoTech with a 3x magnifier on it and aging eyes. It's heavy and doesn't balance that well IMO but you can hold it at the ready for a long time due to the weight distribution.
If the SHTF I'm grabbing my 1.5" AR though as it's lighter, more accurate, has a better trigger and is easier to work on.
I will probably sell it next year as I live by the motto "the one who gets to play with the most toys wins"
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