Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders A bad cleaning habit finally exposes itself

Got into a bad habit lately cleaning my muzzleloader barrels. After applying the cleaner on the patch and centering the 2-1/2" round over the muzzle, I would run it slowly up & down the barrel..... usually three times for each patch.

Today, I checked the bore containing Birchwood-Casey Bore 2 In 1 Cleaner after shooting the ML during mid-week using Blackhorn 209. I wanted to see how good the cleaner soaked overnight. Well the dry patch came out real light gray, so I thought I was real close to just adding the gun oil for storage.

So I grab my Ballistol spray and apply some on a patch. Not sure what prompted me to do this, but I ran that Ballistol-soaked patch up & down the bore fast instead of slow. Not only fast, but I added about seven more laps. So instead of three up & downs, I ran 10 fast and hard.

That patch and the next 34 patches I ran today (all in the same manner) have come up almost black. That Knight Vision barrel only has 60 shots on it. I swore I ran some JB Bore Paste down the bore a few times when new, to get all the packing grease out.

The first 30 shots with this gun was using real blackpowder. The next 30 has seen Blackhorn 209 fired thru it. So can someone here please tell me how many more Ballistol-soaked cleaning patches I need to get the patches turning white again?

I have never used JB bore paste, but think I probably should. Is this what you are talking about?

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleani...ing-compound-sku083065025-1160-4123.aspx

The Knights come from the factory with Dyna Tek bore coating to make cleaning easier. Regular bore solvent should be all you need for BH209. The JB may have scrubbed your coating out, leaving you with a bare bore; I don't know. Ask Mule Deer on the Gunwriters' forum. He's a big Dyna Tek guy.

JB is for removing copper fouling and is mildly abrasive. I wouldn't use it like you did myself.

I shoot both a 50 caliber TC Hawkin and a TC Black Diamond using only Black Powder.

Two patches soaked with Windex gets 95% of the fouling out. The third comes out fairly clean. Three dry patches and usually the third is about as clean as when it went in.

Then I run a wet patch down the bore of Denatured alcohol.A dry one, blow it out with a compressor then a coat of Bore Butter and I am done

No water-based cleaners with Blackhorn 209 powder. Actually, cleaners aren't my issue here. It's when I use the CLP oils like Ballistol, Breakfree, Birchwood-Casey......etc. That's when my patches turn streaky-black.

Barrel baths in soap and water produce clean patches. But when I add oil patches later, that's when the black appears.

Sounds like I have a buildup and it may take another 34 patches to alleviate it.
Sounds like I've been too gentle patch cleaning - not allowing any soaking hours with my cleaning rituals.

Just did a hard patch scrub with my Omega barrel and it's showing the same symptoms. I better get over to the sporting goods store tomorrow and buy another 200-pk of Pro Shot 2-1/2" round patches.

I have an older .50 caliber CVA Hawken and use Swiss or Goex Black Powder in it. I clean it the OLD, recommended way using very hot water with very little liquid soap in it.

After removing the barrel from the stock and removing the clean-out screw from the drum (I leave the nipple in place), I put the bottom end of the barrel down into a small bucket of VERY hot, slightly soapy water maybe 4-inches deep and run a new, clean patch on the jag up and down in the bore maybe 10 or 12 times... drawing the slightly soapy hot water up to and out the muzzle on the "up" stroke and out the open screw hole on the "down" stroke.

Then I take my wooden cleaning rod with a cleaning jag on one end and a .50 caliber NYLON bore-brush on the other end which I had built to be used strictly as a "cleaning" rod with threaded brass pieces on both ends to accommodate attachments and push the NYLON .50 caliber brush DOWN and and pull it UP the bore several times, twisting it a quarter of a turn once it clears the top of the bore after each down and up motion to insure I touch all areas in the bore with the brushes bristles.

I don't use a bronze bore-brush because it is very difficult, if not impossible, to pull back up the bore once it is pushed to the bottom whereas the nylon bore brush comes back up easily and still does a fine job of cleaning out the "crud" from the lower edges of the rifling. At this point, the bottom of the barrel is still sitting in the smallish, plastic bucket of water.

By then, the soapy water is beginning to cool off and is very dirty, so I pour it out and replace it with clean VERY hot water only (no soap) to clean the suds and soap out of the bore.

I add a new, clean, cotton patch to my cleaning rod's jag and work the jag up and down in the bore while the bottom of the barrel is sitting in the clean, hot water maybe 10 times or so... and then, removing the barrel from the water, I remove the barrel from the bucket and put the bottom end of the barrel into a clean, just-emptied waste basket to "catch" any water and blow compressed air from my very small air-compressor down the barrel to blow out all the water. I then turn the barrel over and also put a "shot" of compressed air into the open screw-hole in the drum while the muzzle is inside the waste basket to insure the flash channel is also dry.

I then put the tiny bore light down the bore and look things over. The bore should be bright and clean with no dark areas near or at the bottom of the grooves.

Normally, by then... the bore is VERY clean and shiny... and the barrel is still very warm from the use of the very hot water. I remove the bore-light.

I then blow compressed air from my small air-compressor down the bore again to blow out any remaining water... and I also blow compressed air in the open screw hole again in the drum and the flash channel to blow out any remaining water in that area as well.

Then I run a very oily patch lubed with Ballistol on the cleaning ram-rod's jag down and up in the bore a half a dozen times, rotating it a quarter of a turn each time the jag comes out of the top of the bore until I'm sure all areas of the bore are oily.

Then I spray a little Ballistol from a small, pressurized can of Ballistol into the screw-hole in the drum, then I blow compressed air down the bore and into the screw-hole as well to insure a Ballistol oily coating remains, but not in an excessive amount. Then I check the bore's lube by sliding the small bore-light down the bore and checking it out.

At that point, the work is over... so I clean up the outside of the barrel and put the barrel back into the cleaned out stock and store the rifle, muzzle DOWN, with the muzzle resting of a folded over paper towel to absorb any remaining lube that might drip out of the bore.

Next time at the range, firing a single percussion cap with the muzzle pointed at some grass or something that will be moved by the percussion cap's "blast" is all that's necessary to insure the bore is open and dried out enough so no oil will contaminate the load of black powder when I load the rifle to shoot at the target.

Using the above cleaning methods, I have never had any light rust on or "in" the barrel, the bore has remained perfect and like new... and firing a single percussion cap just prior to loading the rifle at the range was always adequate to insure the rifle is ready to be loaded and fired without any further precautions.

Plain, clean HOT water with a tiny bit of liquid soap in it cleans the rifle's bore out perfectly and a rinse of clean HOT water removes any soap left over. Yes, it's the "old cleaning method and it still WORKS really well !!!

You don't need any fancy, costly bore-cleaners to do a fine job. Give this inexpensive method a try... you won't be disappointed.

Incidentally, I read a report recently about a test conducted by the use of scientific methods concerning the use of various oils and rust-preventives and their effect on pieces of raw steel coated with these various items and left out in the weather for 3 months.

Only 2 of the raw steel plates had absolutely NO RUST on them after 90 days... one on which a very expensive rust preventative was used and one on which Ballistol was used. All 48 of the other raw steel plates coated with many well-known oils and lubricating products had some or considerable rust on them... so using Ballistol is an excellent idea.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Almost exactly what I do, with the same results. Windex with ammonia is as good as it gets for bp fouling.

RonT.One thing to watch out for in your cleaning method is that water gets under the bridge that is between your ramrod and barrel. Years ago I found Ihad significant rust build up under it.

Much as I like Ballistol for BP and as a smokeless powder solvent, I don't like it as well for BH or sabots. I think you may have plastic residue in your barrel. Hoppes or the BH solvent might be your best choice, something that will dissolve the plastic. Also, a bore brush seems to be required here, nylon or brass.

Nah Pappy. My Birchwood-Casey 2 In 1 Bore Scrubber is a good BH Solvent. Doesn't smell-up the house like Hoppes either. I've never used a jag when cleaning. Always use a bore brush, even at the range.

I am convinced I have a buildup caused by my slow, few runs up&down patch-cleaning. Caused by not allowing any solvent-soaking time in the bore. Since I've developed this more fast & furious ramrod-thrusting in the bore, it's forcing all the krap out of the bore.

After reading the replies here and also at the shootersforum on another website where I posted the same thread, I'll get it all out eventually. I'm just surprised it hasn't created havoc with my shot groups at the range. But that could be attributed to tight sabots I use. Had I loaded loose bullets, I may have noticed my target groups go south by now.

If you have sabot fouling try boiling hot water. It works as well as any normal CF solvent. I doubt its sabot fouling unless you shot with a hot barrel.

I sold a gun to a guy I know, it had been shot a decent amount but always cleaned well. To the naked eye (and on the patches) it was spotless. He used JB to "take it down to super clean" he said. Once he ran the JB in it, it appeared dirty - the plastic fouling showed up. So it may be possible that is what you are dealing with. This was an older gun, so no packing grease, etc. I have never used JB like that, so I can't comment from personal experience.

That's my next step tomorrow.... JB Bore Paste.

I figured it out finally.

For the last three range sessions with my blackpowder muzzleloaders, I was using a nylon bore brush. When I began cleaning the guns the other day, I found a unopened pack of phosphorous bronze bore brushes.

Every time I wiped the bore tonight with the nylon brush, patches came out white / clean.
Every time I used the brass bore brush, patches were dirty.

The oddest part to this is the nylon brush is tighter inside my bore and will not clean good. The brass bore brush goes down the bore relatively easy and cleans like a champ.

End result?..... a dirty bore accumulation after the last three range sessions. What's the lesson learned here?...... don't buy nylon bore brushes for your muzzleloaders.

I'll finish it tomorrow with the JB Bore Paste. I can see the Finish Line Ahead. Thanks to everyone that replied, for all your help.

some cleaning solvents react with phosphorus bronze brushes and they say to use a nylon
like the bh 209 solvent I think
I hope that you aint wearing away the barrel coating with the jb like another poster said

good luck either way
life is a lot easier for me using 777 and butches black powder shine now than what it was the past 2 years using bh209

fords and chevys
blondes and brunettes

When new, I used a couple patches of JB Bore Paste ..... maybe 20 laps altogether (10 + 10). That's very minimal use of this stuff. I expect the same this time around, except used more vigorously up & down the bore. I've done this with every new ML I ever owned. I would think it would take a 100 laps or more to even begin wearing down whats inside our bore, when used exactly by what's prescribed in the directions. Hardly anyone I've read includes oil in their ritual. That's what helps cut the wear factor some users see. I include the use of oil when I treat my bores with JB Bore Paste. I apply it exactly like it's written on the back of the jar.

I'm not going to debate this stuff with more added posts. I'll leave that to someone else. Thanks everyone once again for their help.

good shot of amsoil powerfoam and a few patches i'm done.

If someone answered my question, I missed it. Is the JB bore paste you are talking about the same as "JB non-embedded bore cleaning compound" ?

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Thanks for the "head's-up", S.S., but I use VERY hot water and then BLOW out all the liquid using 100 lbs of air-pressure from my air-compressor. Even after I blow out all the liquid, the barrel's steel is still very warm.

And so, I doubt that there is any liquid (aka "water") left anywhere in the bore and flash-channel... but I appreciate your thoughtfulness in warning me about the problem you had.

Ron T.

Not meaning the flash channel or bore. My Hawkin has a piece of metal between the barrel and where the ram rod goes about 15" long. Moisture got under that