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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890 |
The same applies to self defense situations as well as hunting.
If a bullet reaches the vitals and doesn't incapacitate, it has failed as surely as one that doesn't reach the vitals and also fails to incapacitate. Explain how a bullet that reaches the vitals leaving a quarter size hole through the heart will fail to incapacitate. You're the one who referenced such failures in your original post on this thread. I'd really rather you explained it, that being the case, if you feel like it needs to be explained. Otherwise, what is this thread even about? You're the one that posted a bullet through the vitals failing to incapacitate, do you are the one that need some or explain that phenom.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890 |
It's about penetration versus the Pressure Wave Fairy, Ethan.
Everybody who's Anybody knows the Pressure Wave Fairy:
Flutters along ahead of your handgun bullet,
Through the sleeve 12th Street Dog's leather jacket & tensed forearm,
Through his jacket again,
And the stolen credit cards and bag of weed in the breast pocket,
Crashes through 3" of well nourished & conditioned pectorals and ribs,
(courtesy of your state prison system)
And once inside, the Pressure Wave Fairy
Whips out his magic pink feather duster, and
Jack-slaps a honkin' big pressure wave up through Dog's brain
Knockin' him senseless and rendering him incapacitated!
Me? I'll be over there behind the dumpster with three magazines of hardball, trying not to laugh. I love the humor posts!
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
You're the one that posted a bullet through the vitals failing to incapacitate, do you are the one that need some or explain that phenom.
That's not true. If the bullet reaches the heart and the advasary continues on, instead of instant incapacitation that is simply the difference from one to another and no fault of the cartridge load combination, because it did the damage. This applies to rifle, shotgun and handgun.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890 |
You're the one that posted a bullet through the vitals failing to incapacitate, do you are the one that need some or explain that phenom.
That's not true. If the bullet reaches the heart and the advasary continues on, instead of instant incapacitation that is simply the difference from one to another and no fault of the cartridge load combination, because it did the damage. This applies to rifle, shotgun and handgun. You mean you don't understand that some run when heart is destroyed and some don't. not all drop like a CNS shot. I thought that was obvious.
Last edited by jwp475; 08/30/15.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,273
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,273 |
Just trying to be logical...
Adequate penetration seems essential.
The bigger the hole, of adequate penetration, the quicker the kill. (not applicable to CNS, obviously)
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890 |
Just trying to be logical...
Adequate penetration seems essential.
The bigger the hole, of adequate penetration, the quicker the kill. (not applicable to CNS, obviously) Exactly!
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Just trying to be logical...
Adequate penetration seems essential.
The bigger the hole, of adequate penetration, the quicker the kill. (not applicable to CNS, obviously) Exactly! Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see the issue with this logic. I don't recall anyone ever saying that insufficient penetration was adequate; quite the contrary. Placement trumps everything, and with placement comes the requirement of penetration. In other words, a .22LR that hits the X ring and penetrates the heart trumps a .45ACP that missed the vitals, even if it has the same depth of penetration. Obviously, if you can hit the same spot and penetrate adequately with a larger bore, then the advantage goes that direction. Yet, nothing trumps placement. jwp, I know that's essentially what you're saying, so I don't get all the fuss over it.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890 |
Just trying to be logical...
Adequate penetration seems essential.
The bigger the hole, of adequate penetration, the quicker the kill. (not applicable to CNS, obviously) Exactly! Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see the issue with this logic. I don't recall anyone ever saying that insufficient penetration was adequate; quite the contrary. Placement trumps everything, and with placement comes the requirement of penetration. In other words, a .22LR that hits the X ring and penetrates the heart trumps a .45ACP that missed the vitals, even if it has the same depth of penetration. Obviously, if you can hit the same spot and penetrate adequately with a larger bore, then the advantage goes that direction. Yet, nothing trumps placement. jwp, I know that's essentially what you're saying, so I don't get all the fuss over it. Couldn't agree more!
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
You mean you don't understand that some run when heart is destroyed and some don't. not all drop like a CNS shot. I thought that was obvious.
Uh... You first said... If the bullet reaches the heart and the advasary continues on, instead of instant incapacitation that is simply the difference from one to another and no fault of the cartridge load combination, because it did the damage. Then... Explain how a bullet that reaches the vitals leaving a quarter size hole through the heart will fail to incapacitate. The first implies knowledge of what you asked me to explain. If you know what you're talking about, why would you need me to explain it to you? Were you hoping I'd correct your grammar and spelling errors or...? IOW the OP states common knowledge which something like four pages later you imply ain't so.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660 |
The same applies to self defense situations as well as hunting.
If a bullet reaches the vitals and doesn't incapacitate, it has failed as surely as one that doesn't reach the vitals and also fails to incapacitate. Explain how a bullet that reaches the vitals leaving a quarter size hole through the heart will fail to incapacitate. No doubt the person will eventually be stopped. But if you completely vaporized the heart, that person can remain conscious for up to 30 second...a LOT of death and destruction can be dealt in 30 seconds. Someone killed in that 30 seconds would say it was a failure to incapacitate.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
I know, let's have a spelling contest.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,273
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,273 |
There's always going to be a variation in reactions. There was a lady cop in L.A. a number of years ago, who was shot in the heart while off duty, with a .357. She not only survived but stayed in the fight long enough to kill the attacker.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,124
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,124 |
Y'all do realize that you don't have to post in threads where you disagree with the basic premise, don't you? Ethan's gotta pad that post count!
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,339 |
Y'all do realize that you don't have to post in threads where you disagree with the basic premise, don't you? Good night, I wish more people understood that!
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Posts: 13,792
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,792 |
There are times when silence has the loudest voice.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Y'all do realize that you don't have to post in threads where you disagree with the basic premise, don't you? Ethan's gotta pad that post count! +1
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143 |
How does one get to nearly 35,000 posts without wasting inordinate amounts of time on the internet?????? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,124 |
You don't! I have over 12,000 posts on one forum in 9.5yrs and it seems like it was not only a lot of work but a huge waste of time as well. I'm not proud but ashamed. Three times that sounds like it would have to be a lot of nonsense spewed for no reason.
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