Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Is the 222 Too Light For Deer?

I've had only limited experience with the round and was wondering if it is adequate for mule deer?

I recently got an experienced Valmet 300 series O/U in 12ga and 222. Would it be best to have it re-chambered to 223?

I haven't checked the twist rate. What's customary for the 222?

Thanks in advance for your help and opinions.

Choose the wrong bullet and you will have a fine mess on your hands.

I'd look to either the 60gr NPT or the 64gr BSB.

I've been using the 222 with 50 gr Sierras for years.

Never lost one and I've killed a bunch of carolina white tail.

Typical is a 1-14" twist, I'd not count on either of the ones Sniper suggested stabilizing if it is indeed a 1-14" twist, but you can try.

Re-chambering ain't gonna help twist. That said, I'd throw some 55gr Hornadys through it and rock on.

I just worked up a load with 45 gr TSX's for my .222. Haven't shot anything with them yet, but am seriously contemplating it for my deer tag this year.

Yeah, 45's wouldn't suck either.

Common 222 ROT is 1-14".

If it's a 1/14 twist, that could depend on his altitude. At sea level, you could be right. In Colorado, then might stabilize.

Mines a 12 twist.

It will stabilize a flat base 63 gr bullet; I'll let my daughter use it this year.

We are at about 600 ASL

I assume that 63gr is the Sierra game king?

That should work just fine at .222 velocities.

I hope she gets a chance to try it out.

I've seen RWE's .222 sluice deer just fine.

IIRC, it stabilizes the Nosler flat base fine, as well as Sierras.

If only his full-grown adult rifles were as reliable...

I hope its not too light for mule deer, cause Im planning on using mine, with 55 grain Hornadys in it this fall....



I know the deuce works on even big whitetail...

Match it up with a Sierra 1365 55 grain SBT Game King and go kill your deer. The 223 doesn't offer enough more to worry about.

And when you're done deer hunting the Valmet will make a great calling rifle and that bullet is a good fur bullet.

Elevation ranges from 5,500-9,000 feet.

I just found an old box of Sierra ".224 High Velocity 63gr Semi-pointed" among my many various boxes of 22 bullets.

They are a bit short for weight, and I think they might be the answer if I can conjure a load.

Then you should be good with the 60gr NPT.

Anecdotal and sample of two, but I have cleanly killed two mule deer with my 222 and 65gr Sierra GameKing. 1:9 twist and one recovered bullet that weighs 62.9gr.

Obviously the pics by experienced hunters prove a .222 will kill a deer. Why someone would choose it, when they have other options, is beyond me.

I have no doubt

I've killed a few with it loaded with 52-3 gr HP. Put 'em in the ribs and it's a non-issue.

Not a gun writer but Dober, who used to post here and I believe was considered knowledgeable said the 63 gr semi-pointed Sierra was a good deer bullet.

Bruce,
The Valmet is almost certainly a 14 twist, I have owned a couple 412s that were, but the 63 SMP should still work well in it. If you don't have a Sierra manual I can send you the data it lists. Hodgdon also lists data for the 63 Sierra. I've used that bullet on a bunch of deer in 22 CFs and it's hard to beat.

If you want to use a 55 then I would first look at the 55 hornady Sp with cannelure. It's a tough accurate little bullet. Truthfully at Duece velocities about any 55 grain bullet will work.

+1

Have been hunting deer all my life and have never considered using my .222, perhaps out east where the distances are shorter it might be more viable. out west where the distance can be long at times I know there are always better options. I will keep my .222 for hunting coyotes,rockchucks and shooting prairie dogs.

well, there was a time when I didn't have other options.

I do now, but considering I'm killing them like a slaughterhouse, I decided not to bother other optioning.





OK I lied.

I'm going to use a RAR in 223 this year.

And let my daughter use the deuce.

In a 222 (M70, 1-14") I once had the 63 Sierra SMP shot very well (good enough for gopher shooting). It also shot the 64 Powerpoint well enough to easily place lethal shots in deer-sized game to 150 yards or so. The 60 Hornady SP however would not shoot in that rifle. (I reckon shooting on the coast of the Bering Sea qualifies as "sea level" for the intent of atmospheric awareness. )

It worked fine for my daughter. Shot was only about 35-40 yards and it ran about 30 yards.. With "bow" range like shots, it works fine. This fall I am hoping she uses her 6.5 Swede, but I wouldn't be heart broken if she used the 223 I've got either. At close range, they seem to work fine.

Rates a two-cool!


Out here a 100 yard shot is close range, and 150-300 are the common distances. Maybe I should use the 308 version.

A Swede would be sweet!

Bruce,
my late oldest brother used a 340 savage in .222 for mulies, blacktail, and whitetails for years. after he was killed my nephew used it for years on same. after he became a felon I got the gun. took many mulies with it.

That's a recommendation I value for sure.

BRAVO !!!

The .222 is probably my all time favorite cartridge.That said, the world is full of better deer cartridges.

Isn't it illegal in most places, or at least unethical to used a .222 on deer?......

Yes, and yes.

Next time I pole axe one at 3000 fps, I'll marry it and sodomize it, just to get the hat-trick.

You are a bad person.


Savage 99 told me so.

On a similar topic, my new Ruger #1 in .222 will shoot 55 grain Hornadys into little groups but at only 2950 fps.
Is that enough to kill a deer?

You should be banished to Accurate Reloading for using 'unethical' and .222 in the same sentence.

Savage 99 convinced me to use enough gun, so I have my 250 Savage 700 Classic ready to go.

Are you sure thats big enough???

No.

this is a metric issue.

it takes 900 meters per second to kill a deer.

that's 2952' 9" per second if you use U.S. Survey feet conversion.

Screwed. You are.

Damn..........

If it isn't I have my real cannon 300 Savage 700 Classic ready too. 150's just under 2700, big time!

I hope ya'll knock 'em dead, literally. I seldom get a standing broadside perfect shot though.

Yep.

In the real world, you don't always get perfect bullet placement.

The luxury is the stand is 30 yards behind the house, and it overlooks a corn field, which will be cut in another month.

The gun season lasts 2 months.

So.....

every week day, I will pick her up at 4pm from school; we will haul ass home and be in the stand by 4:30.

Then sit for an hour.

The shot will present itself.

If it ever becomes harder than this, I will rethink the strategy.

That said, I used the 222 on weekends when I went deep in the brush or woods and rarely got a good broadside shot. Get your heresy chimes ready, because I'm going to say "head and neck shots".

Most .222s have a 1 in 14 twist. I have a Sako Vixen that's been rechambered to .223 and it shoots lights out with a 55 gr. bullet. I don't think it's likely to stabilize a 60 or 64 gr. bullet, but you may just have to try it. Miracles do happen!

Well, I consider the .222 a fine deer cartridge. My brother and I have killed more deer with a Hornet though and never lost one. If I am "horn" hunting, I use a .280 or 7x57. Meat hunting or culling I now use a Fireball or .222.

I like neck shots. Generally they are either a DRT or a clean miss.

We've used this bullet a fair bit and it works real well on whitetail.

So you've got this buck at 225 yards.........do you really wanna have a .222 in your hands?







.....or this one?







....or maybe this pig? Not me.....ever.

I see you have decided to go straight to a "Stopping Rifle", when you know perfectly well, that whitetail deer rarely charge, even when wounded.

I get carried away sometimes.

I've shot the bottom out of Coke bottles at 210 yards, I'm betting I could find a way to make a connection with one of those at 225.

I'd want something spun other than 1-14", but I'd not be skeered.

No benches out there. If the wind's blowing 15mph+ you're screwed x2.

Not a writer. When I was a rookie trooper in a lightly populated area, my one and only gun store guy told me that the duce was the most popular cartridge for his poacher customers. He was correct, and they seldom bought beef. Smallish deer, head and neck shots, and relatively quiet all worked for them. Using the same thinking, if one has the discipline to use it, it will work in legal circles as well.

I have taken many ferrel goats with head shots from a .218 Bee and a total of one cull deer with a between the eyes shot with a .22LR. All DRT.

JACK

The second deer I ever killed (1967) was with a .222 shooting Norma factory ammo...50 grain bullet...nowadays I have "stepped up" to .223 with 65 grain SGK's over 27 grains of Varget.

I don't shoot off [bleep] benches.

Yeah, putting a bullet into a target the size of a basketball at 225 yards with 15mph winds is a real motherpuker.

You'd obviously not know, since you've never killed anything remotely that big, unless you shot yourself in the mouth somehow.

Not sure what you consider "shorter" but I have killed them out to 400 yards in the east. Last one I killed with a .22 CF (223) was right on 275 yards.

Maybe you could hit this one though....he was just standing there.....too old and fat to leave maybe.

[img:left][/img]

I'm with JGR on this. The 15 or 30 mph winds in west Texas, changed me to an 06 pushing 180s at respectable speed. That is much more than needed to kill deer, but absolutely needed to hit them with careful hold off.

Jack

Hold off for wind is BC, not weight, dependent.

I have shot a few loads in a couple of Texas gals, I'd not be surprised if one or all weren't related to you.

How many deer have you shot with a 22CF, FA Graider?

When the .222 first hit the market, a friend bought a new 722 in .222.. that fall he shot 11 mule deer bucks with it.. But deer were thick in those days, and I suppose he did not shoot very far as he had only open sights at the time... But he mostly used his model 70 .30-06..

I have shot at least 60 head of big game with .22 caliber rifles.. But I picked my shots, and took no chances.. None were trophy size game..

It will do the job for sure, but for big bucks, I want a bit more for deer hunting on public land..

Never had the desire to use wood bats when I could use aluminum, not even when I was broke.

Gotcha, no [bleep] experience, just talking out your ass.

Jeez, what an idiot. Aluminum over wood? Guess he never found the sweet spot on anything.

Amazing what a good hitter can do with a wood bat.....

I would imagine that Pat, like myself, has "threaded the needle" more than once...

You don't count scenar........but even Ted Williams himself would get more hits with aluminum.

He's a wannabe/pretender.

JGR: I wouldn't choose the .222 as my first choice for deer, but Ive never been in a situation deer hunting when I would have felt inadequate with the .223AI


That said...Im hoping to use the deuce this fall...meat, not trophy hunting, so the shot will be carefully chosen.( as it should be in both cases actually...)

Keep in mind I never said it wouldn't work. If I were going whitetail doe culling, aoudad ewe culling, etc, I may try it with head shots, etc, but it would never be my choice for a big deer, big aoudad, or big whitetail killer. Also keep in mind I don't hunt out of stands,etc and usually have as many moving shots as standing still ones.

Shootin' in wind like that must be crazy!!!




Travis

I've got two 8 point bucks hanging here on the wall that were killed with a Remington 788 .222 and handloaded 55 grain Nosler solid base bullets. The bigger of the two is a pretty nice buck for here and dressed 172 lbs.. He was taken with a quartering away lung shot from 125 yards and went straight down.

it will do the job just like any other when properly applied. I never shot a deer anywhere than behind the ear or between the eyes, no matter the flavor of caliber for the first thirty years of my life. then I learned from the experts in magazines like G&A that that was all wrong. all that I shot with that placement were on the ground before they heard the shot. Now that I have taken to using the experts placement of behind the shoulder in the last 30 years of my life I have become a better tracker.
its all good.

Yea, we don't get to bait them, or tie them to mineral blocks in the back yard out west.

I have shot over 25 deer with my 222 with 55 grain Sierra hp, including 1 mule deer scoring 175. Big bodied,to be be sure. I have shot them in the neck,head and through the lungs,and it works really well. Shoot with confidence.

Bruce,

Aren't you glad you started this?

Once hunted musk ox with an Inuit from one of the islands in the Arctic Ocean, and he was a firm believer in anything MAGNUM, because he used a .22 Winchester Rimfire Magnum on polar bears, and had never taken more than one shot to kill a bear, and never lost a bear either.

Which is why I would much prefer the .222 MAGNUM....

I recall the Remington Nylon 66 ad from the 60's with the rifle lying in the bottom of a umiak in a pool of blood and seawater. The .22 was their rifle for seal hunting.

A very good friend of mine has an eye problem. He has a wonderfully beautiful custom #1 Ruger in .338 Win. Mag. that he's been using for his deer and whatever hunting for many years, but developed an eye problem, and can't take recoil any more. He took his old Browning 1885 BPCR and rebarreled it to .222, and that's going to be his "deer rifle" from now on, due to his inability to take recoil wihtout it causing him to go blind in all liklihood. His plan is to shoot then in the head or neck, and I have no doubt at all that he'll do very well indeed, and that no deer will either be wounded, or be able to take a single step after he fires.

Another friend grew up literally on the banks of a local blackwater river, and shot his first deer at age 6, and was only 8 the first time dark caught him in the swamp. He's done a lot of cropping for the local farmers, and has shot more deer and wild hogs than most people will SEE in their lifetimes. Many of both have been with the .22 LR. He'd typically keep his gun in his truck, and after work, just cruise through the areas he's been told to police, and sometimes a .22 was all he HAD, so .... that's just what he used.

Deer are really easy to kill IF .... and THAT is the important part .... you just hit them well and use whatever weapon you have within its effective parameters.

IF you use whatever you have EFFECTIVELY and within its effective range, AND hit the deer right, you'll eat some very good venison. If you don't, and it doesn't matter which of these specifications you don't fall within, then you're gonna' have a long tracking job or go hungry.

Deer really are pretty delicate as animals go, but they CAN be tough when it wrong, or with the wrong type of bullets. Keep within a gun's range and power limitations, though, and most anything CAN kill deer cleanly. It's just up to the wielder to us it right.

I've known another guy who used a .222, and he was only a so-so shot, but he got a lot of deer with his 788, though he did have to chase a few due to poor bullet placement.

It's got a LOT more to do with the hunter than the gun when we consider what caliber is "good" for deer. They pretty much ALL are "good," IF used within their parameters and the shots are placed right.

The 222 cartridge is adequate for mule deer.

I love it when people with NO actual experience with the subject bring all these other factors in to support their personal bias.

One of the mule deer I shot was [GASP], running.

JG, Any of those deer from your pics above would be in serious trouble.

This one was in trouble too. 7mm 150 BT, quartering away, 175'ish yds, entered right hip, found underneath front left shoulder. Deer weighed 306lbs live. I don't think a .22 would've performed like that, but I'm not sure.


[img:left][/img]

I don't know from personal experience, but I've often heard that the Inuit tend to use small calibers almost exclusively, with anything over .223 being a big gun. I suppose tracking wouldn't be a huge issue for them though, if it were necessary.
I see how well the .22 CF's work on deer size game, makes me wonder if the .243 with 105's isn't all I really need for just about everything. So far I can't quite convince myself to take it for elk, even though I'm pretty sure it would do the job fine. We can't use .22's for big game here, but the .243 is equally easy to shoot and if I still have tags after bow season I'm going to use it.

Exactly.

You don't have a phugging clue. So STFU.

Do you have reamers???

I have killed deer with 22lr through 375 H&H, albeit only two with 222.

My boys and I have killed dozens with 22-250's ranging from reduced loads (sub 222 velocities) to full power. From 30 to 350 yards.

If you do not have any actual experience with 22's, how do you know what you are talking about?

[sarcasm on]
But gosh darn I just know that a 22 shouldn't, couldn't, can't, won't etc.... by golly, gee whiz. [sarcasm off]

You guys need to lighten up a little.....just having a little fun. PG, a sarcasm emoti would be nice for guys like you obviously......you're fixin' to bust a blood vessel there pal.

You are right, because a 53gr TSX out of my 22-250 would not have been found in the front shoulder, from my experience, it would have exited.

I have tried unsuccessfully to recover a 53gr TSX for many years. I did find a petal off of one once, after my son shot a deer through a vertebrae. Another running shot BTW.

JG, you simply need to admit you are wrong. You do not have the experience with 22 centerfires to make credible statements.

Ingwe, Steelhead, Scenar, myself and a whole bunch of people use them with no problems.

Have you ever thought that maybe it's the Indian that has problems and not the bow?

I've always thought anything in .224 was too small for deer. I've never shot a deer with one. There are so many people I know personally here in Texas that hunt deer with that caliber(especially 22-250) and are very successful, that I shouldn't doubt the caliber though. And if you think about it, with so little recoil I bet that a higher percentage of shots hit vitals than with larger calibers because people are more accurate with less recoil.

But then again everything is bigger in Texas - except our deer.

I started deer hunting in 1966.My first rifle was a 222.I killed my first deer with a 222.In the seven years I hunted with it,I killed three deer.I shot at and hit several more,but I took home only three.Those 50gr bullets those days were designed for varmints and didn't give you very much penetration.The last deer I shot with it was about 35yds.I shot that deer right behind the shoulder and instantly a fist sized lump appeared were I hit it,but I never recovered that deer.I don't think it ever made it past the rib cage and into the internal organs.The last time I shot a 222,was in 1984.It was loaded with a 55gr Hornady Spire Point.I killed a 125lb sow at 75yd.That little 55gr bullets hit her right behind the shoulder and dropped her dead right there.I soon traded that rifle for a 6mm because I never really had the confidence in that rifle to get the job done everytime..Will a 222 kill a deer? Yes it will.Will it kill a hog? Yes it will.Is it a really great caliber for those jobs?I have to say,not really.I have to say,there are more bullets to choose from these days that are better suited for the job,but for me,bigger is better.From that 222,I went to a 30-30,then a 25-06,then a 7mag(I really like this one for deer).I never felt under gunned or over gunned with the 7mag and feel it is a great caliber for deer from close to all the way to way out yonder.I've got quite a few rifles to hunt with and several I haven't got to hunt with yet.I've killed a few with the 6mm,270 Win,308,my 300 WSM is a real hammer(I've killed quite a few with this one),7STW(another hammer).This year I've been working with a couple of good shooting 30-06's.I really like the results I've been getting from my loads on these rifles and my give them a shot this year.What can I say,I must be a rifle looney.Another reason I like the bigger calibers is,here in the South Texas brush country,it is very thick and thorny.The quicker you can put one down,the less you will bleed from all those scratches you will receive looking for a deer in the dense brush

Before the TTSXs came out I settled on the 53 TSX as well. Killed a score or more critters with them...and actually recovered one!!! I might be able to find a pic of it.

My wife shot this big mule deer and shot him well, but he decided to try and top out of a knife edged ridge that I didn't want him to get on the other side, so I tried an anchoring shot through the shoulders with the53 TSX out of my .22-250
It worked, broke both shoulders and I recovered it under the skin on the off side, weighing 53 grains...

More power to 'ya, seriously. I'll stick with this though...




I do wonder though......let's say you have just gotten an all expenses paid trip to the Jicarilla, big mule deer are the target. Assuming it were legal, how many would show up with a .222?

BTW, my son and nephew, at the ages of 7-12, killed probably 40 TX Hill Country whitetails with a .223....Win Supreme power point ammo, 60'ish gr. IIRC.....so I have seen them kill stuff.

cup & core you whippersnapper

Good one JGR!

I wouldn't show up with a .222

But ( no sarcasm or contentious emoticon needed...) I wouldn't think twice about taking the .223AI.
I feel it gives me 100 yd comfort edge over the deuce and it is such a sure killer with the 55 TTSX that I wouldn't hesitate.

Everybodys mileage varies, but I personally feel comfortable with 200 yd shots out of the deuce or the .223 and 300 yd. shots out of the 223AI or the .22-250..
For me, that has covered 99.9% of the deer shooting Ive done....and like the cartridge/bullet choice, it all boils down to your personal comfort level. It seems comfort and confidence walk hand in hand.