Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Different point of impact clean vrs fouled barrel

I have a Traditions muzzleloader that hits 3-4" low on the second and third shot, vrs the impact of the first clean bore shot. This is at 50 yards.

Is this common? Should I swab the bore between every shot, or find a new load completely?

100 grains of pyrodex pellets, and a 295 grain powerbelt.

Any recommendations on what to do with this thing?

I didn't notice any difference in fouled bore impacts with black sabots and 240 grain hollowpoints, which are not legal for my upcoming hunt.

I have always swabbed the bore between shots with my T/C Encore. It will Hold 2-3 shots without cleaning, but in my mind The Clean bore shot is the only one that counts. I shoot 90grs of 777 under a 300gr Hornady XTP. When you are out hunting, its gonna be a cold, clean bore that gets the job done. Run a couple windex soaked patches down the bore, then a couple dry ones. Let the Barrel cool sufficiently, and those groups will close up.

Since your options are so limited, being pellets and a conical bullet, leave everything alone and just aim 3-4 inches low on your 1st clean barrel shot.

Had you been using loose powder and a wad between the powder and bullet, you could fine-tune / tweak it a little. I suppose you could add a wad in shots 2 and 3. That may lift your target holes a little. But there's nothing you can do about the powder, unless you switch to multiple 30 grain pellets, or drop to a 30 and 50. Bullet weight/grain changes would be significant with Powerbelts. You are looking at give-or-take 50 grains moving up or down.

Not much you can do with your current setup otherwise. If it shoots tight groups, I recommend sticking with it and compensating your aim on the 1st clean barrel shot.

BTW.... if you don't own wads, just fill the Powerbelt bullet bottom cup with bore butter / wonderlube. That'll help cut the escaping gas.

My TC Black Diamond will shoot within 3" @100 yards using PB 295 or 348 gr bullets. 100gr a Goex BP. At the range, I swab between every shot with Windex because when hunting, it is the first shot out of clean barrel that will be most important.

Personally I would use loose powder and tweak your loads

Get some ultra bore coat....

Give this a try. Before loading a barrel that has been fully cleaned and oiled, swab the bore with a patch well dampened with 91% Isopropyl alcohol, followed by a dry patch. It will greatly lessen the difference in impact between clean barrel and fouled barrel shots.

First thing I'd do is switch powders, Pyrodex is filthy. With a tight fitting sabot you scrub some of the fouling off on loading and shoot out of a cleaner bore than with the looser fitting Powerbelt. You are shooting it out over more fouling which effects the POI after the initial clean bore shot. That being said, "you don't shoot animals with groups", (quoting a well known 'Fire member here) it's the first shot that counts. If you're going to stick with the same load, then sight your rifle in with a clean bore and swab between shots as MarkG suggested to get tighter groups.

Thanks for the advice. I honestly am thinking of leaving well enough alone at this point. The first shot out of the clean barrel gives surprisingly good repeatable accuracy, But without cleaning the bottom drops out and hits 3-4" lower every time.

I am sighted in for the first shot to be 1" high, and am getting 1" groups at 50 yards with open sights. I'll just have to get it done with the first shot.

For deer I'll go back to using the sabot's and the 240grn hollowpoints, which are much more forgiving.

Thank you all.

I'd stick with your first shot procedure, if you need a quick follow up, charge, ram home a power belt, and adjust for what you expect it to do.

Your plan sounds fine unless you need you make a follow up shot. I always swab between shots (1 spit patch/both sideds followed by 1 dry patch/both sides) and my following shots are accurate and repeatable. That said, I hunt with a fouled barrel.

I shoot Blackhorn 209 powder in my ML, which allows me to shoot multiple shots without having to clean the barrel. I always shoot a fouler before going hunting, as the first shot is always somewhat off target.

That is what I'd do if you plan to not mess with it. First shot is the one that counts anyhow. If a subsequent shot is needed, just make sure to remember you need to adjust accordingly.

And fwiw, many folks have 1st shot (clean bore) flyer issues. It is more prevalent with BH209, than pyrodex or T7 from what I've seen.

I have an older Knight MK-85 that has given me fits with clean vs fouled bore impact. On a dedicated inline board, I saw that some guys were fouling their barrel with liquid graphite lock lubricant on a patch. I tried it yesterday and it worked like a charm. Load was 90 grains loose triple 7 FFFg behind a 300 grain Sierra .458 bullet in MMP orange sabot. Of course, YMMV.

You only told us half-the-new routine.
What did (or what didn't you do) to the bore between the first and 2nd shot?

At the range, I swab with an alcohol dampened patch after every shot. I always followed that routine and until I tried the lock lube, first shot from a CLEAN, DRY bore was invariably 3-4 inches low.