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Glynn Offline OP
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The boot salesmen always say "you can stand in a bathtub of water with them, won't leak", but hiking through wet grass is what I consider the real test.

We got blocked out of our pack-in camp this year and settled for a hike-in camp a mile away with some great new territory that came as a surprise. Anyway, luckily we had an extra pair of boots to swap out as needed as the ones we were wearing in wet grass would just get filled with water. Pulling those on in the morning really sucks. My partner swears he will never buy GTX again.

He had Danners and a pair of Merrells, I had two pair of Merrells. Fit and performance was fine, just wet in some cool temps was the problem.

Are there goretex boots that don't take on water hiking in wet grass or do we need to move on to waxed all-leather boots? We wore gaiters.

We just take one pair when we pack in, so would like to have dry feet next year. Do you have to spend over 200 bucks for uninsulated boots to have feet that aren't all pruned up?

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Gaiters? I have hunted in snow, rain and wet grass with several different brands of boots with goretex liners (Merrell, Vasque and Salomon). If I am expecting wet, other than shallow streams or puddles, I wear a light pair of OR gaiters or some fleece gaiters with goretex. No wet feet.


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I've been wearing Gore-tex boots since they came out. I rarely spend the day in the rain, but wet grass is common. I've had one pair of Gore-tex boots let my feet get wet. And that as an older pair. I've worn some Danners for 10 years and they kept me dry.


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How high were your boots? Socks that wick water will wick it in as well as wick it out. If your socks got soaked above the boots, they will wick it to your feet. The gaiters should have been a help there.


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Glynn Offline OP
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One of my pair of Merrell boots is three years old, they stayed dry through a week of rainy days elk hunting the first year before succumbing . The other pair (same model) was wet the first day I hiked in wet grass this year. I also sprayed them liberally with silicone before departure.

Maybe they were just inferior products. I take precautions to not let water wick in from my sock tops, good gaiters.

So a boot like the Salomon Quest 4D should take care of it?

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I've never had wet feet in my Danner or Redwing GoreTex boots.

Last edited by chlinstructor; 09/12/15.

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You were probably seeing wet socks from sweating


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Originally Posted by rcamuglia
You were probably seeing wet socks from sweating
yup.....I've never had wet feet while wearing goretex boots....unless, of course, I went in over the tops of the boots.

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Irish Setters have always kept my feet dry.I like the ones that have the heavy leather above the rubber soles.I do not like boots with the molded glued on soles.If the sole starts to separate,it will trap water under you foot and make its way through the Gore-Tex.These will not leak.


http://www.6pm.com/irish-setter-black-bear-804-dark-brown

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/irish-setter-black-bear-hunting-boots-waterproof-insulated-for-men~p~7632x/?filterString=mens-boots~d~137%2Firish-setter~b~9349%2F&colorFamily=01

Last edited by baldhunter; 09/12/15.

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Originally Posted by Glynn


Are there goretex boots that don't take on water hiking in wet grass or do we need to move on to waxed all-leather boots? We wore gaiters.




All leather for sure.

Gore-Tex is a joke.


My current 3/4 wore out pair of cowboy is 10x more waterproof than a couple pairs of 'techno' styled goretex hiking boots that I have owned in the past.

Same for rain coats, goretex and it's spin offs turn into a heavy wet POS after an hour or so of rain.


I've had terrible luck with it.

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I've had goretex boots that kept my feet dry, and goretex boots that leaked like a sieve.

Any "waterproof" membrane is only as good as the boot it's sewn into.



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Many years ago, when GT was invented, they sold it to manufacturers with little or no instructions on how to use it. Boot and clothing makers didn't bother sealing the seams and most of their stuff leaked. GT got a real bad rap and about went bankrupt. Then they went on a campaign to get it right. They wouldn't sell the membrane to manufacturers unless they passed rigid tests on how they used it. Quality jumped fast but it took years for GT to get it's name cleared. The membrane is good but if it isn't made right, it will leak.

Back in the 70's, I bought a pair of Vasque boots, one of their 1st with GT. They were a joke. My tennis shoes were drier. That was before Gore made them start following directions.

One mistake I've made: I've removed the insoles on boots to make room for heavier socks. That exposes the GT seam under my feet and it will wear out quicker and start to leak. Those insoles are in there to protect the seams so leave them in.


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Glynn Offline OP
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Well it must have been the design or execution with these boots. His Danners were several years old, maybe the seams were compromised from side hilling and hard work. Two of the pairs of Merrells were like new. Not bagging on them, just saying they didn't work and it was not nice. Mine were the Reflex model.

Couple of times we took them off, you could wring a cup of water from your socks. Not sweat. After kind of a short morning hunt one day I took mine off and the tops of my smartwools were still dry where the gaiters and pants covered them. Definitely coming in from the front of the boots like it was being forced through the bootie.

He swore he would never wear boots made with it again, I am asking here, from guys who wear them mountain hunting in wet grass, if it was just the cheaper boots. I will gladly pay more to have dry boots in the morning on a backpack hunt.

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Glynn: don't bet the house on the Salomon Quest.
My first pair did great for year 1.
Year 2 leaked immediately at even the sight of wet grass.
They are comfortable enough that I bought another pair I found on deep discount and that's the only way I would buy them....on sale.

Regardless of the boot, I think with time the Gore tex liner will develop creases and eventually wear thru and leak. Better quality boots have the liner constructed in the boot so that this takes longer. Cheap boots can be poorly stitched and leak immediately. For me, all GT boots are temporarily waterproof.

Waxed all-leather boots may be able remain waterproof for more years but require more maintenance, sometimes more break-in and are usually heavier. I'm sure there are exceptions to all these characteristics.

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If you're walking through wet grass that's higher than your boots it's not the boot's fault that you had wet feet. Your pants got wet and the water ran down into your boots.

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Gore-Tex the membrane is waterproof.

The idea behind Gore-Tex is that expanded PTFE results in a membrane the pores of which are many times smaller than liquid H2O and many times larger than gaseous H2O.

So, liquid H2O cannot physically pass through Gore-Tex, and gaseous H2O readily can.

Issues:

1). Seams. They need to be sealed. The better the seam seal the longer stuff stays waterproof.

2). Gore-Tex degradation. GT is a membrane. To the extent it is protected by exterior and interior layers, it will remain intact and therefore waterproof.

3). Profuse interior moisture. This is often my challenge. Interior moisture cannot escape through the GT membrane if it is liquid, i.e., sweat. Thankfully, you can turn a whole LOT of sweat into gas, as anyone sweaty who has taken off a garment in cold weather can attest. But, I tend to overwhelm the membrane with too much moisture ... I create it faster than it can a) turn to gas, and b) pass through the membrane.

This is the proverbial "internal storm."

A couple of things:

1). I have seen some discussion about exterior layers "wetting out" and purportedly inhibiting moisture transfer through GT membrane.

The opposite is true, especially if it's cold out. Cold water on the exterior of the GT membrane will greatly enhance the transfer of moisture from the interior.

2). The "feeling" of being wet when wearing a GT shell.

Numerous times I have been in prolonged rainstorms wearing a GT shell and felt that, after a while, my shoulders were getting wet. The feeling was unmistakable.

Invariably, at least with my shell, when I later took it off, the undergarment was dry. I finally tried it with a t-shirt under my shell during a rainy round of golf, and after hours in the rain, the t-shirt was dry under the shell.

What happens is that the cooling effect of evaporation occurring on the other side of a very thin shell can make you feel wet. It is not as bad as actually being wet, but evaporation will still chill you. Since the shell is hanging from the shoulders and the membrane is therefore very close to the skin there, the "feeling" of evaporation, i.e., cold wetness, can be felt through the shell after a while.

The answer is a layer of insulation. I like fleece.

3). The greater the discrepancy between interior and exterior temperature, the more readily moisture will transfer.

Proper Gore-Tex membrane is waterproof. Stuff that truly leaks does so for other reasons. Internal moisture is by far more likely to be the culprit if you are wet wearing GT. Sometimes you can feel wet, but really are not.


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for extreme wet conditions i like all leather boots liberally coated with sno-proof. i have old leather rockies that i coat with sno-proof, jamming it into the seams with an old tooth brush and melt with a hairdryer and they have never leaked in wet grass, snow, streams, whatever. leather and beeswax is a tough combo to beat.


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The Zamberlan Ibex GT Pros are an incredible hunting boot for keeping your feet dry. They are the best boots that I have worked with for this in my life. I probably walked more than a mile with my pack in a moulin down the glacier this past and the inside of my boots didn't get a bit damp. I know that I am only 46 but I buy a good pair of mountain hunting boots every year whether I need them or not. (German Meindls from AB Brooks/Hoffman boot company, Hanwag GTX Trappers, Kennetrek Extreme 400s, Lowa Tibets, Lowa Sheep hunters, Cabela's Meindl Denali Hunters(before they got cheaper), and now Zamberlans. Boots are your very most important piece of gear-bar none. The Zamberlans run north of $400.

There are $100 dollar goretex boots that will not keep your feet dry. When I see people complaining about that I just grin a little. Same folks probably have a 20K travel trailer and 20K UTV but can't see spending more than $100 for a pair of Cabela's Meindls from the bargain bin.

I use rubber bands with my rain pants rather than running with gaiters.

What Rem141r says is golden. Treat your boots, shape your boots before the pre-season, during the season and after the season. I use Oberhauf's boot conditioner that works like sno-proof. I met Oberhauf this last summer- he is a character from another time.

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I have used all the tricks on good leather cowboy boots and new Hawthornes. Slather on the snow seal......set em out in the sun at a 105 degrees. Melt it in with a blow dryer. etc,,,etc.

I have never had a pair of leather boots stay water proof for more than 24 hours in extreme wet or soggy snow conditions.

On the other hand, my Meindel gore-tex boots from Cabelas kept my feet dry for ten days last year wading through bogs and creeks. And this was the second year for this pair of boots which I wear all day, every day at work.

Oh, my feet did get wet the first day riding into camp on the horses. A thirty MPH wind driving rain and sleet sideways with a pair of jeans on. It is a bit much to expect any boot to keep your feet dry when the water is running down your leg and into the top of the boot.

But after drying the boots, they stayed dry for the rest of the hunt.


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I agree with Rickbin's post. GT makes a great membrane but they can't fully control how it's made into clothing. If it's not done right, it will leak.

One problem I've run into isn't a problem with the GT. They make boots with the GT booty on the inside and insulation outside. If you're in cold wet conditions, the insulation will get soaked while your feet are dry. It's like standing in a bucket of ice water with your feet in plastic bags.


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