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One thing I notice about "new" rifle models is that they all seem to have these "problems". Especially as they move from "custom" status to mass manufacturing methods. None of them seem to work right and shoot perfectly....at least some of them.

Seems to take awhile before the monkeys are worked out and makers get their act together.Which is why I generally sit back and watch before reaching for my checkbook.

Just more evidence that CNC and computer driven machinery and holding parts to tiny tolerances,synthetic stocks,and modern barrels are not the only answer to a quality rifle.

They still have to be assembled just "so". It's the difference between a great rifle, and a POS that's frustrating to own.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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My "problem" with all this is not that there are some issues associated with the launch of a new rifle. It's the apparent lackadaisical attitude in getting it right with the customer. I mean, taking a miffed customer's rifle out to the range to verify whatever is a sign to me that they don't know what to do about it, or don't really care. Good grief, give the man a brand new, proven rifle muy pronto and worry about the non-shooters later.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Originally Posted by JGRaider
My "problem" with all this is not that there are some issues associated with the launch of a new rifle. It's the apparent lackadaisical attitude in getting it right with the customer. I mean, taking a miffed customer's rifle out to the range to verify whatever is a sign to me that they don't know what to do about it, or don't really care. Good grief, give the man a brand new, proven rifle muy pronto and worry about the non-shooters later.

Yep.

They could call Kenny Jarrett for advice on handling clunkers. But if they chop sawed their bloopers, how many would they have left??

The way they're handling this is a bigger problem than the problem with the rifle, IMO.

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If it takes a company this long to sort out a poorly shooting rifle it means:

A) They don't care.
B) They're incompetent.
C) They have a myriad of issues they're dealing with.

Me takes C for $1400...

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Originally Posted by BobinNH
One thing I notice about "new" rifle models is that they all seem to have these "problems". Especially as they move from "custom" status to mass manufacturing methods. None of them seem to work right and shoot perfectly....at least some of them.

Seems to take awhile before the monkeys are worked out and makers get their act together.Which is why I generally sit back and watch before reaching for my checkbook.


I would say that the Nosler 48TGR in 338 Win and 48 Patriot in 26 nosler were both accurate out of the box. My Cooper model 52 in 3006 is also very accurate.
My JOC Tribute is very accurate with a smaller contour barrel. I would imagine that with the extra care that went into it and its price point that it fits in this space.

What I find interesting and I will soon find out if I am part of the group of those disappointed is that many of the Kimber owners are only reporting accuracy potential with an after market barrel.

I am curious about one minor thing that when I say it will make everybody go hmm. I notice that the Boddingtons have a 300 Win and 280 AI in professionals and that they are very accurate at least on camera. I also noticed that they had Talley scope mounts. I am wondering if the bases that are supplied with the rifles have been examined? Bases with irregularities can cause lots of problems.

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I bet Boddington's rifles didn't just "roll off the line"


Originally Posted by shrapnel
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle.


Originally Posted by JohnBurns
I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Originally Posted by JGRaider
My "problem" with all this is not that there are some issues associated with the launch of a new rifle. It's the apparent lackadaisical attitude in getting it right with the customer. I mean, taking a miffed customer's rifle out to the range to verify whatever is a sign to me that they don't know what to do about it, or don't really care. Good grief, give the man a brand new, proven rifle muy pronto and worry about the non-shooters later.



I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I figure Bansner, Brown etc know WAY more about warranty issues than 99.9% of the people here that always bitch and moan about a poor shooting rifle.

Originally Posted by JGRaider
I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I figure Bansner, Brown, etc know way more about it than 99.9% of the people here that always bitch and moan about twist rates.


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Originally Posted by kaboku68


What I find interesting and I will soon find out if I am part of the group of those disappointed is that many of the Kimber owners are only reporting accuracy potential with an after market barrel.


I can't speak for the other Kimber owners that had their rifles rebarreled, but mine was capable of meeting the LAW 3-shot MOA guarantee as delivered. When I first got it I had a problem because I didn't realize the Talley supplied screw was too long for the front base - that isn't a Kimber problem. Once I got that sorted, the rifle shot pretty good. I never bedded it with the factory barrel, that probably would have improved it some also.

David


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
Originally Posted by JGRaider
My "problem" with all this is not that there are some issues associated with the launch of a new rifle. It's the apparent lackadaisical attitude in getting it right with the customer. I mean, taking a miffed customer's rifle out to the range to verify whatever is a sign to me that they don't know what to do about it, or don't really care. Good grief, give the man a brand new, proven rifle muy pronto and worry about the non-shooters later.



I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I figure Bansner, Brown etc know WAY more about warranty issues than 99.9% of the people here that always bitch and moan about a poor shooting rifle.

Originally Posted by JGRaider
I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I figure Bansner, Brown, etc know way more about it than 99.9% of the people here that always bitch and moan about twist rates.


You're an expert smartass, as verified by you taking "shots" at a kid with one good hand, and one hand missing. Remember that pearl? Bet you're a nice guy in person though. Nevertheless, I'd still bet those LAW's mentioned do indeed know way more about it than 99% of the posters here, including you. It's their motivation to please a customer that bothers me.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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I have a stock kimber mountain ascent in 280AI. It's meets and exceeds sub moa. Really wish I would have bought another kimber instead of the LAW that is currently sitting 2000 miles away in PA.

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Originally Posted by JGRaider
My "problem" with all this is not that there are some issues associated with the launch of a new rifle. It's the apparent lackadaisical attitude in getting it right with the customer. I mean, taking a miffed customer's rifle out to the range to verify whatever is a sign to me that they don't know what to do about it, or don't really care. Good grief, give the man a brand new, proven rifle muy pronto and worry about the non-shooters later.



I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I figure Bansner, Brown etc know WAY more about warranty issues than 99.9% of the people here that always bitch and moan about a poor shooting rifle.

Originally Posted by JGRaider
I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I figure Bansner, Brown, etc know way more about it than 99.9% of the people here that always bitch and moan about twist rates.


You're an expert smartass, as verified by you taking "shots" at a kid with one good hand, and one hand missing. Remember that pearl? Bet you're a nice guy in person though. Nevertheless, I'd still bet those LAW's mentioned do indeed know way more about it than 99% of the posters here, including you. It's their motivation to please a customer that bothers me.


Show me where I EVER took a 'shot' at a kid? You're reading comprehension rivals that of rock.


Sweet Jesus you are one stupid Mofo


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More funny stuff. Wondering why others care what someone uses to load cases, then jumping in with both feet on the 222 Rem thread getting into others for using it to deer hunt. Of course all of this is based upon your vast experience.


Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by EdM
Folks are actually weighing each charge?


Why some concern themselves with how others reload is an ongoing mystery of the universe.


Isn't that the truth.......






Originally Posted by JGRaider
Obviously the pics by experienced hunters prove a .222 will kill a deer. Why someone would choose it, when they have other options, is beyond me.






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The ASTUTE saw this coming from the get go...but the fhuqking Texans are still stumped. I can only lead the STUPID Fhuqkers to water and very much enjoy it,when they don't drink.

Never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't.

The GLARING Obvious

Hint.

Laffin'!

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You're not worth the time or effort to search for it. Tom264 remembers it well I bet, as it was his kid you took a shot at. Pretty pathetic, but par for your course.


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Originally Posted by Canazes9
Originally Posted by kaboku68


What I find interesting and I will soon find out if I am part of the group of those disappointed is that many of the Kimber owners are only reporting accuracy potential with an after market barrel.


I can't speak for the other Kimber owners that had their rifles rebarreled, but mine was capable of meeting the LAW 3-shot MOA guarantee as delivered. When I first got it I had a problem because I didn't realize the Talley supplied screw was too long for the front base - that isn't a Kimber problem. Once I got that sorted, the rifle shot pretty good. I never bedded it with the factory barrel, that probably would have improved it some also.

David


Mine was an early model with a problem barrel that Kimber didn't seem as excited about as I was. I could see a constriction with the Hawkeye and feel it with a tight rod, around 2" from the muzzle.

A 23" SS light contour Broughton 5C sure cured that... cool

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Greetings All,

I have been away from the forums for a bit but want to let you know that in May I began some new career adventures and am no longer working for or associated with LAW. I have had a few PMs and have directed them to the LAW Website. I’m sure that my former colleagues at LAW will get things worked out with a bit of time. Mark is a superb gunsmith with a proven record and I wish them the best of luck in their endeavors.

Thanks
Paul

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I hate to laugh but holy [bleep] this is hilarious
Unless you bought one of LAW's tomato stakes .condolences to those that didn't drink


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Covert Trail Cameras are JUNK

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Bansner will be jumping ship next.

Anybody seen the ads for NEW Legendary Arms Works?

Last edited by Pappy348; 10/01/15.

What fresh Hell is this?
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Haven't seen the ads... what makes you think Mark is leaving?

Still waiting for my rifle to be shipped back to me. Bob assures me that they have gone through the frifle with a fine toothed comb and will be over - nite shipping it back to us on Monday. Communication has not been good. I continually have to call for updates after being assured they would provide them regularly. This will be the last trip this rifle makes to PA. If it still doesn't shoot it will become a donor action, stock, and trigger for a new project. Unfortunate. The Mrs had big plans for this rig this season.

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Don't know anything of the sort. There are no ads (that I'm aware of). It was just a remark based on the post above announcing the departure of Mr. Reed, which may or may not be related to the problems described here. Bansner has a great reputation and this is probably driving him nuts. Looks like another example of the difficulty of carrying the quality and detail of a custom product over into a semi-custom or production environment. I wish them well, but someone had better get a handle on this soon or they're done before they really get started.

Last edited by Pappy348; 10/02/15.

What fresh Hell is this?
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