Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats 585 HE --- Cases by the Barrel --

Ready-- thankyou..

Biebs-- No I can't change dandles, don't have tools and
experience for that. Most that I do is cut them and
straighten and weld up. a real amature job

Yes changing handles csn be done by an experienced smith.ED

Ok I did find a way to change to straight sporty handle
on Enfields, which is to cut them off before the dogleg
bend an inch away from the bolt body, then I'm able to weld
ona nice handle extension I found.

Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like. Usually
set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
size to 577NE, to the 585 Nyati with the picture of Ross Seyfreid
shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over,
to our 585HE the strongest yet.

The 577NE is an offshoot of the 24 gauge caliber, only they went
eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.

Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
stamp the caseheads 24 ga.

For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.

Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.
.Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.

Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed

Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
Sabots hold leafd as well as jacketed.



Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.




Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.

The here being the US, as well as our group with barrels, dies, cases,
and McGowen with .585 barrels in stock, CH4D with 585HE dies
in stock, gunshops with # 31 shellholders.
And later few retail outlets setup with cases in stock... . Ed

Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.



I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice
like me can do.....



A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed

For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH
here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light
bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil
but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but
with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay
in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about
mach 4 with a top load..



Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.
It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow
sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980" ..The 5th, 6th,
7th blanks on bottom are straight 1.375" 585 regular twist blanks.
One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed

Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a
hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and
fairly streamlined..



But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed

In Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs,
and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE
handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention.
We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent
here. Another pallet load of cases coming.

Here is picture of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case,
will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range
target work.



Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two
piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the
front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band
on the front. Ed

Here is comparison of our 585HE and Trex case, and while
we have barrels of cases and more coming and many available
in stock in AUS, many are finding Trex cases scarce...



Here is picture of a neat falling block that could work for our
585HE with little work, the Wickcliff.




Here is picture of the singlestack mag box we built for Enfields
fitted to the bottom of BBK action.Very little changing and
it fits a lot of different actions, as a fixed magazine, with its
own feed lips,and we load from the top.Ed

Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a
singleshot test gun. We used a composite stock we
adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs.



And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is
just finishing up one in a Ruger #1.

Here is one reason to like 585 calibers is bullet varieties,
this picture is only about half the bullets and slugs
we know of, and most can easily found. Ed

There is couple 585 videos on Swann Gunsmithing's Facebook site;

Of our 585HE in first Ruger #1, that was done in Australia, set up

for the poster Tankhunter on the AR big bore forums. That gun killed

the first buffalo that I posted picture of above. You can go

direct to the page and click on the videos to watch the test firings..

https://www.facebook.com/swanbarrels/videos


Here is picture our 585HE in a Montana PH action in a MPI stock, with the

style of a CZ stock, that a guy is setting up. The stock will be finished brown

and metal finished with a Gun Kote finish...Ed

One of the first of modern 585 caliber wildcats, since WW2, the 575 Miller Greiss Magnum,
was first in records in the fifties, It was made from BMG brass shortened to 2.70" long
and necked up from 50 cal to .585" with what looks li\ke a little sharper shoulder..

They rebated the rim quite a ways to .618" to maybe fit 98 Mauser bolt.Used a special action.
Listed as a shooting 750gr bullet about 2400 fps. It holds about 150gr of ball powder under
a 750 gr bullet, maybe little less than 3" 50cal spotter case, where our 585HE holds
180gr under a 750gr'.

We made one for experimenting on a full length BMG case.With rim left same as the base
and would need a BMG sized bolt and action. I'm glad to be a big bore wildcatter,
and happy to be in the company of big bore nuts, old and new. Years ago when
guys did big wildcats they took what was available, to rework, and maybe
they could have used the 3" spotter case if they could have found couple barrels full.

But it takes a lot of work to reform cases that much, with the multiple dies,
multiple annealings and case trimming and extreme reworking of regular rifle actions,
which is why I like our cases, simple and straight, any regular long bolt action,
falling block, break action, etc, the 585 good for dozen or more heavy loadings,
moderate loads, last forever..

In making our 585HE we made it a size, a new belted size, to fit regular size guns,
not BMG actions,that didn't have to be used from a tripod, and could be put in a favorite,
the Ruger #1, other falling blocks, without taking metal out of the feed trough.
And to get the same and much more powder space like a cut back,
real short, fat, BMG wildcatted cases to 585, we made longer case and worked
with a group buy to get a factory run. We thank gun nuts for the help.

Here is picture from the great site, cartridgecollector dot net, of the M&G Mag .Ed

Probably first 375 caliber cartridge made from 585HE necked down, the 375 Warlord.

Guy did a real nice job, with what looks similiar to a Weatherby style shoulder.

Kinda outdoes Weatherby & Cheytac. We have cases with no headstamps for wildcatters.

First picture I got sent me today off of facebook and this one is from the great sniperforums.





Another fellow is planning on shortening the 585HE to maybe 2.4", for use Marlins and Henrys,

and other leverguns, redoing their 45-70s. With the belt they will have good headspace control.

Without a rim that takes up circular space, say like our 24ga FH, a 585 bore, but which is perfect

with a rim for break actions like our 24ga FH in a Magtech...Ed

Sorry to be away so long. Health and money problems.
Here is how the top of the singlestack magazine looks that we
made to use in Enfields and other bolt actions. The lips that hold the
cases are springy, and we can load it from the top. The inside of action
below feed rails are relieved a little and that allows feed lips to
move and work ok.



Here are couple 24ga FHs break actions, a CBC with monoblocked
585 barrel in it, and a guys NEF he had a 585 barrel monoblocked in.
The 585 barrels are perfect fit for 24ga, and 585 Minie Bullets
are a perfect for barrel and 24ga case fit.






Another matter---It seems strange for me to ask for help when
I ask guys on the net for help at times. . But I really am in a bind.

That is truth, Our small income disappeared from our farms truck
garden business, as my my knees are shot and can't hardly
walk, I can't do field work, etc. And the wife's lung condition
got so bad she can't work.. So we finally had to quit that,
but were and are in debt. We need little extra money to try
to keep our health fixed up and pay bunch of back bills and utilities.
As well as needed for traveling to doctors, treatments,drugs, etc.

Could you all maybe get together with others on these forums
and kinda take up a collection to help get me out of my troubles and
debt. Like 10 or so bucks each put into our paypal account as gifts.
And if you want to mail it, contact me to get you
my mailing address.

The Paypal email is jegunownerstv.com

Best Regards- Ed

PS-- I really need help. Not astronomical amounts, but fairly fast.
Just a little from each to help. A quick boost so to speak.
We never made anything on the 12ga FH, etc, work and research.
The little coming from sale of 585 brass, dies, barrels,etc,
goes to pay to the places, where rest of the money
is owed, for getting them made..Ed

Another action we found/researched that isn't priced 3 grand

or more that will work great for our 585HE is the

Stiller bolt action that is made for Cheytac based

cases. Less than 1200 dollars. Compares in size

to the Montana PH actions( four of them) we

have put the 585 in.Ed

Here is picture of 375 Warlord next to our 585 case he made it from.
He is going to make couple later necked down to 416, and 458.
There is another guy working on doing one necked down to 357 wildcat.



Here is a picture of our poster Biebs on AR, 585 HE, in a MPI stock.
He used a big Enfield action, with a fancy jeweled bolt.



We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can even feed really
long overall length loaded cases, like 4.5" long or more, if you are
using long pointed bullets for real long range target and hunting work.
One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is Stiller Cheytac actions
made similiar, justa newer version. Both actions come in 1.45" diameter
and a 1.60" diameter recievers.

And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work, decent prices, has
these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He has, working with
another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good working, single
stack, center feed, magazine..He has our 585 HE reamer on hand, we have
barrels, cases, and reloading dies..Ed

Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE
in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock.
Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
The scope rail is a piccatiny,. if you need long range work.





The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole
Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.

About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
is a huge job needing special jigs, etc, Not really, just use one for a jig
with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed

Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields.
On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down
and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom section of
weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight.
Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight
like a compact UTG sight...



If we have a welded up Enfield rear bridge, then we can use sight
like on this gun a guy is doing. Has a rosewood laminate stock.
He will have it checkered, sanded, with fancy finish.



Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by
a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb
stock, handles recoil great... Ed




More about 585 BB short case for lever guns, pistols,AR Uppers,
Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70.
One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with
Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel,
to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case
that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet
Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.
Or rolling block rifles and pistols....Ed

Here is a picture from the back, of a big Lawton action that
our 585HE fits in nice. Scope rail on there is tapered
for long range shooting.



Here is what our wildcatter buddy is making from our
585HE brass to see how they look and experiment with.
He is getting reamers, dies, and gun setup first for the 375.





In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.
By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....
Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site. Ed

A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''..
That is neat term , and very glad that folks are catching the big bore fever.

Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized
bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns.
I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat
bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.



Another picture of the 585 HE one of our guys put in the MPI stock..





On straight sided cases like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander
die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always
felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight
roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the
bullet or slug, shortens case life.

So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of
of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small
amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads,
with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less
work that has to be done in the press ... Ed

Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun case, holding
a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with.
This one with light slug supposed to do over 2000 fps.




Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN.
Known as, Rocky Mtn Rifles, video on Youtube of them testing our
585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are
shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vzQjRGfT1A

Allan and Grant Swan in Australia are building 585HE for a guy,
the second they built. First one killed the buff pictured earlier .
AHR and Vestals will make folks here in US a 585 HE.
Here is another view of a Lawton action big enough for 585HE..




Here is picture of Rossi SS with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it,
chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, to do testing in a light rifle
with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to
put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got plenty of cases Ed