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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,852
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,852 |
Yes, there is a reason we call em fool hen around here.
Is it sporting enough if you hunt them with a tree limb, or a rock. I have done both, and had grouse for dinner each evening.
As a kid I spent a week one time riding the mountain roads on the back of my cousin's XL350. He would holler "GROUSE" and slide the bike to a stop in the middle of the road. I would hop off and step off the road, then shoot the birds head off with a 20 ga modified 870. I got my limit five days in a row, and we ate every one of them cooked over the fire.
I used to climb off my horse to shot them with a model 70 in 30-06. 165 gr bullet over 60 gr of H4831. The rifle shot dead on at 300 yds. I have killed grouse out far enough that I had to hold five inches low to take their head off. Ain't that giving the bird a chance???? Just watch the back stop. I can not remember ever losing any meat to the shot.
Though I did watch my buddy turn a couple to grouse burger. One was hit in the breast with a 270, 130 gr speer boat tail at max velocity and about ten yds range circa 1980. We all got meat rained upon. The other, he hit too low with the 357. A Speer 125 JHP at max velocity. No, he did not believe in leaving any airspace under the bullet.
As long as the meat gets ate, and all kills were within the F&G regs. There is nothing to be ashamed of.
Though today, I would not want to bet that rocks or sticks are legal methods of kill. I sure hope the statute of limitations has expired at fifty years.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2008
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Good on you Shrap.
Paddler come down here to the Lowcountry Marshes and shoot some marsh hens with me when you can and bring your nicest double.
I also have a big boar gator I would like to show you, he isn't aggresive or anything like that.
BTW anyone know what I can get for a lightly rusted Piotti with a little pluff mud on it?
Lowcountry Wildlife Management Knowing Wildlife Beyond Science [email protected]Genesis 9;2
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 874 |
May apply here:
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
That Bill looks like a really cocky azzhole to me. Just sitting there all skinny.
Last edited by fredIII; 10/03/15.
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Posts: 9,209
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,209 |
If you are going to use a pistol, at least shoot over your shoulder with a mirror.....to keep it sporting.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,778 |
So, you ride around in a side by side ATV and ground sluice grouse? And guys here think that's cool? What about the rules of fair chase??? Ever heard of sportsmanship? The only thing you should shoot grouse on the ground or in a tree with is a freaking camera. Paddler, sometimes it's "to each their own". I kinda like the type of hunting you describe and wish I had a nice double and a good bird dog myself. However, I personally don't believe what Shrapnel did is considered "ground sluicing". To me ground sluicing is shooting more than one bird/animal, standing in the road, with a shotgun maximizing the amount of game taken with one shot. I personally would like to have the option for grouse in my state with my 25-20 revolver, as I would carry that while deer/elk hunting but it's not allowed due to caliber restrictions during centerfire seasons. I think it takes a high degree of skill to head shoot a grouse with a 4" bbl pistol. Not really "unsporting" in my book, But that's me. I bow hunt with a "stick and string" longbow that weighs all of a pound with silencers on the string. I use wooden arrows with fixed broadheads. I've never taken anything with it because the shots I've been presented "I" couldn't take ethically. Do I wish to stop others from using compounds, sights, releases, range finders, and mechanical points? Do I consider that equipment "unsporting"? Not really. I do wish, from my standpoint, that more jurisdictions would go to split season for modern and primitive archery. The same goes for muzzleloaders. Many times I wear handmade moccasins (my hands made them) or sometimes hunt barefoot depending on conditions. I wear wool and cotton (again condition related), very few synthetics in my wardrobe. Do I think it not very sportsmanlike for folks to wear the latest "Scent lok", Windstopper, Gore tex, super dooper fleece along with their scentproof knee high latest version of rubber boots? Short answer... NO. I do hunt at times with "modern" firearms of various calibers. I'm not into "long range" hunting. Do I believe it's not "fair chase" for guys to shoot game at 500, 600 or more yards? Maybe a bit risky given the things that could happen, but not unsporting really. A question for you, my fellow campfire attendee: I have a pump shotgun. Is that OK to hunt grouse with? It legally holds 3 shells, should I only load two so as not to be less "sportsmanlike" than folks with double guns? Perhaps when I go pheasant, quail, chukar hunting this season I should go to the local pawn shop and pick up a single shot first? And find some 2 1/2 inch shells as those 2 3/4 or god forbid 3" ones could be seen by some as not very sporty. I don't hunt "varmits" like prairie dogs, gophers, gray diggers, rock chucks, groundhogs and stuff but a lot of folks here do. I sometimes think it would be more "sporting" of them to stand in the middle a PD town with a sharp stick or ball bat and have them get the little f'rs like "Whack a Mole" (it would be hilarious to watch too, have you seen pics of some of these old guys? ) I don't mind if they do it the way they like to do it, it's just not something I'm going to put energy into. I'm about done putting energy into this reply so let me close with this idea. Perhaps to be more sporting, in the spirit of fair chase, you might consider taking to the grouse woods the next time, after canoeing in or perhaps riding on your trusty steed, dressed in a capote with a possibles bag around your shoulder (containing real black powder), while carrying a smoothbore flintlock trade gun. No dog, you would have had to eat him a week or two back as you were nearing starvation. That's some folks' idea of "sportsmanship" Or better yet, like some "primtive" peoples hunt, naked except for a "nutsack" tied to a string around your waste while using a blowgun to harvest a spruce chicken (no I DO NOT want to see pics of any of you other old dude take me up on this!! ) I honestly hope you enjoy your fall seasons. When I manage to get some time off work later this fall, I intend to enjoy mine, in the sporting manner I see fit. Geno PS, Travis would have said all this with just a few letters. PPS, now I've got less time tonight to do serious stuff on the 'fire. Like research .223 AI, Cermalube, and new cartridges based off another. Geno, I hunt with a recurve, a 33 year-old Howatt Hunter before they were bought by Martin. I make my own cedar arrows, too, with 2 bladed Zwickey broadheads. The quiver below was made from green deerhide, per Saxton Pope's description in his classic, "Hunting With The Bow and Arrow". If you haven't read it, as a traditional archer I'm sure you would find it fascinating: I don't kill much, I only hunt archery elk a couple days per year. Don't even hunt deer anymore, even though as a lifetime licensee I get a tag every year. I just don't want to eat one. I won't ever use a compound, I'll just hang it up when I can no longer handle a 70# recurve. It's more important to me these days not what I kill, but how I take game. Sportsmanship matters, which for me means taking game birds only on the wing. If you're going to shoot birds on the ground, just go buy a chicken. Aldo Leopold said, "The value of any trophy from the field depends not on its size, but on the magnitude of the effort expended in its pursuit." Riding an ATV road hunting grouse is a failure, those who condone it are a sorry lot. Nothing beats a dog getting birdy, freezing on point, the flush, and more often than not, the missed shot. I understand it's all legal, ATVs, shooting sitting birds with a variety of weapons, but what a miserable way to hunt. Leopold again: “Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal.” ― Aldo Leopold
Last edited by Paddler; 10/03/15.
The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport. Saxton Pope
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
So, you ride around in a side by side ATV and ground sluice grouse? And guys here think that's cool? What about the rules of fair chase??? Ever heard of sportsmanship? The only thing you should shoot grouse on the ground or in a tree with is a freaking camera. Paddler, sometimes it's "to each their own". I kinda like the type of hunting you describe and wish I had a nice double and a good bird dog myself. However, I personally don't believe what Shrapnel did is considered "ground sluicing". To me ground sluicing is shooting more than one bird/animal, standing in the road, with a shotgun maximizing the amount of game taken with one shot. I personally would like to have the option for grouse in my state with my 25-20 revolver, as I would carry that while deer/elk hunting but it's not allowed due to caliber restrictions during centerfire seasons. I think it takes a high degree of skill to head shoot a grouse with a 4" bbl pistol. Not really "unsporting" in my book, But that's me. I bow hunt with a "stick and string" longbow that weighs all of a pound with silencers on the string. I use wooden arrows with fixed broadheads. I've never taken anything with it because the shots I've been presented "I" couldn't take ethically. Do I wish to stop others from using compounds, sights, releases, range finders, and mechanical points? Do I consider that equipment "unsporting"? Not really. I do wish, from my standpoint, that more jurisdictions would go to split season for modern and primitive archery. The same goes for muzzleloaders. Many times I wear handmade moccasins (my hands made them) or sometimes hunt barefoot depending on conditions. I wear wool and cotton (again condition related), very few synthetics in my wardrobe. Do I think it not very sportsmanlike for folks to wear the latest "Scent lok", Windstopper, Gore tex, super dooper fleece along with their scentproof knee high latest version of rubber boots? Short answer... NO. I do hunt at times with "modern" firearms of various calibers. I'm not into "long range" hunting. Do I believe it's not "fair chase" for guys to shoot game at 500, 600 or more yards? Maybe a bit risky given the things that could happen, but not unsporting really. A question for you, my fellow campfire attendee: I have a pump shotgun. Is that OK to hunt grouse with? It legally holds 3 shells, should I only load two so as not to be less "sportsmanlike" than folks with double guns? Perhaps when I go pheasant, quail, chukar hunting this season I should go to the local pawn shop and pick up a single shot first? And find some 2 1/2 inch shells as those 2 3/4 or god forbid 3" ones could be seen by some as not very sporty. I don't hunt "varmits" like prairie dogs, gophers, gray diggers, rock chucks, groundhogs and stuff but a lot of folks here do. I sometimes think it would be more "sporting" of them to stand in the middle a PD town with a sharp stick or ball bat and have them get the little f'rs like "Whack a Mole" (it would be hilarious to watch too, have you seen pics of some of these old guys? ) I don't mind if they do it the way they like to do it, it's just not something I'm going to put energy into. I'm about done putting energy into this reply so let me close with this idea. Perhaps to be more sporting, in the spirit of fair chase, you might consider taking to the grouse woods the next time, after canoeing in or perhaps riding on your trusty steed, dressed in a capote with a possibles bag around your shoulder (containing real black powder), while carrying a smoothbore flintlock trade gun. No dog, you would have had to eat him a week or two back as you were nearing starvation. That's some folks' idea of "sportsmanship" Or better yet, like some "primtive" peoples hunt, naked except for a "nutsack" tied to a string around your waste while using a blowgun to harvest a spruce chicken (no I DO NOT want to see pics of any of you other old dude take me up on this!! ) I honestly hope you enjoy your fall seasons. When I manage to get some time off work later this fall, I intend to enjoy mine, in the sporting manner I see fit. Geno PS, Travis would have said all this with just a few letters. PPS, now I've got less time tonight to do serious stuff on the 'fire. Like research .223 AI, Cermalube, and new cartridges based off another. Geno, I hunt with a recurve, a 33 year-old Howatt Hunter before they were bought by Martin. I make my own cedar arrows, too, with 2 bladed Zwickey broadheads. The quiver below was made from green deerhide, per Saxton Pope's description in his classic, "Hunting With The Bow and Arrow". If you haven't read it, as a traditional archer I'm sure you would find it fascinating: I don't kill much, I only hunt archery elk a couple days per year. Don't even hunt deer anymore, even though as a lifetime licensee I get a tag every year. I just don't want to eat one. I won't ever use a compound, I'll just hang it up when I can no longer handle a 70# recurve. It's more important to me these days not what I kill, but how I take game. Sportsmanship matters, which for me means taking game birds only on the wing. If you're going to shoot birds on the ground, just go buy a chicken. Aldo Leopold said, "The value of any trophy from the field depends not on its size, but on the magnitude of the effort expended in its pursuit." Riding an ATV road hunting grouse is a failure, those who condone it are a sorry lot. Nothing beats a dog getting birdy, freezing on point, the flush, and more often than not, the missed shot. I understand it's all legal, ATVs, shooting sitting birds with a variety of weapons, but what a miserable way to hunt. Leopold again: “Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal.” ― Aldo Leopold Quoting Aldo, eh? Leopold managed to be damned right, or close to it, more often than not. Yet, he was never a sanctimonious prick. Those are two feats he managed that you haven't even come close to, and by all signs never will.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,468
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,468 |
One hasn't "sluiced" until they have experienced the epiphany of holding a foot under a mess of huns on blacktop.
GE
Disclaimer: not that I would have eve ... oh F that, I knew there was a statute of limitations for a reason.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
And there are those cretins amongst us that consider birds a source of white meat, a welcome change in the diet, and prefer to transition them into biomass by the most expeditious way possible. .....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
Ive killed countless numbers of grouse with revolvers, pistols, rimfire rifles, shotguns too.
I killed one with a beer bottle, i even too one away from a hawk that had just killed one but couldnt quite lift it to fly with it.
They have all tasted great!
I cooked 2 of the yesterday that my 11 year old son shot with his winchester 9422M (lever action 22 magnum)
shrapnel, nice truckload of food. style points awarded for the wheel gun.
Something clever here.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 366
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 366 |
[/quote]
“Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal.” ― Aldo Leopold Quoting Aldo, eh? Leopold managed to be damned right, or close to it, more often than not. Yet, he was never a sanctimonious prick. [/quote] Aldo was a [bleep] wolf hugger.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,534
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,534 |
[quote=Paddler]So, you ride around in a side by side ATV and ground sluice grouse? And guys here think that's cool? What about the rules of fair chase??? Ever heard of sportsmanship? The only thing you should shoot grouse on the ground or in a tree with is a freaking camera.
There is little chance of a sporting hunt or any other "ethical hunt" on a bird you can catch in your bare hands...... They ain't half as smart as most barn yard chickens. I know you being an elitist upland bird hunter has standards ,but grouse are too good to eat to shoot with a shotgun......
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,515
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,515 |
2 more reasons for the ATV...
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,519
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,519 |
Paddler - stop being a sanctimonious prick. Legal take for grouse includes a list of many firearms. I take a shotgun and try to kick them up for fun when I'm just hunting grouse, but I'll sometimes take one with a 22 pistol on the ground or on a branch if I'm big game hunting - but not opening weekend.
There's nothing unethical about shooting a grouse with a pistol - They've got a better chance of living with a pistol on the ground than a shotgun on the wing.
Last edited by WyColoCowboy; 10/04/15.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 56
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 56 |
I killed 28 grouse and 67 rabbits one fall using a Remington Model 7 223 with a 50gr. Sierra and 10grs. of Unique and they all tasted great and no shot to pick out.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,778
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,778 |
2 more reasons for the ATV... Oh, you mean you want to teach them to be lazy slob hunters, road hunting instead of exerting oneself, shooting birds on the ground instead of following the rules of fair chase. You're an excellent example for the next generation.
The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport. Saxton Pope
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
Another chicken-schitt, anonymous fraud running his mouth.
What a surprise.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails. William Arthur Ward
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
Paddler can take his self assumed wing shooter superiority and stuff it up his ass.
It's been a long time pet peeve of mine, the idea that a timber grouse has to be flying or you can't shoot at it.
I get it, you like dog chewed, lead BB filled meat with feathers and guts trailed all through the meat. That's awesome, for you.
Not for me.
Something clever here.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,084
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,084 |
One hasn't "sluiced" until they have experienced the epiphany of holding a foot under a mess of huns on blacktop.
GE
Disclaimer: not that I would have eve ... oh F that, I knew there was a statute of limitations for a reason. That my friend, is quite a nice description of "sluicing". I do understand that it "may or may not have" happened, as described. You're running for local office soon, right (already elected? ) I'm not as holy as some....... I inhaled ( I think, I'm not so sure as I'm getting old and don't really remember much anymore?) Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,276
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,276 |
We've got some pretty smart grouse here. I hunt them each fall by walking the mountains and flushing in cover. It's hard work. I don't eat many grouse! Of course, I see most of them standing in the road. I'm with Paddler on this one. Those get a pass, I just drive on by. If anything, I'll let my dog chase them up a tree so she can fill her nose with scent. She isn't real bright so she needs all the help she can get.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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