Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Debating my 1st custom build

Hello everyone,

I'm debating whether to build my 1st custom rifle. I'll put upfront that I'm left handed so that limits some of the custom action options.

I mostly shoot paper so it's more of range rifle but I also was want to keeping my options open if I wanted to use my first custom rig also as big game rifle. Is it possible to build a dual purpose custom without too much compromise?


Here's some of my rambling thoughts. Please let me know if I'm way off base here.

Action: Still Predator S/A 308Win (left handed)
Barrel: Krieger in Remington Varmint Contour, 26" 1:10 twist
Stock: McMillan Sako/Hunter ( monte carlo stock seem to fit me better)
Scope: Undetermined. Probably put a Leupold scope that I have on hand for now. (Leupold VXIII 3.5-10x40mm, FXIII 6x42)


My second thought (yes I'm jumping around) is that since I'm mostly just shooting paper and fun range gun, build a nice left handed 223rem for what I am doing right now.
Action: Stiller S/A 223rem (left handed)
Barrel: Krieger #2 or #3 contour with 1:8 twist
Stock: McMillan Sako/Hunter.

Appreciate your feedback. Please by candid. This is a lot of $$$ to me, so don't want to [bleep] this build up. Rather have you be brutally honest than go down the wrong rode and mess up a custom build.

For a dual purpose, shorten the barrel 4-5" on the .308 build and I like it a lot!

No flies on your .223 plan either.

Let the alternate chambering and AI comments commence.

As has been said a million times on here already...start with the bullet that you want to shoot and build around it.
I see no reason for a 26" barrel for a .308. Build for balance. Use the barrel contour and length to achieve balance. I like my rifles to balance on the front action screw.

Here is a lefty 223. Does okay with 6x milquad on it. I'd go light.

30338, nice lefty rifle and good shooting!


deerhunter5555, I haven't really thought about what bullet/weight for the 308win. For the 223rem, I was looking at the 75gr amax as target bullet, and the 62gr ttsx for hunting. Both recommend a 1:8 twist in 223rem.

Both will stabilize with a 1:8 twist - it's not optimal. If I'm buying a .224 barrel it's going to be 1:7.

David

Canazes, thank you for the tip regarding twist rate for .224barrel

Also send your Gunsmith a dummy round loaded with the bullet that you choose loaded to max magazine length. Have him throat the barrel to this dummy round.

No problem.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

Bullets are getting longer, not shorter. 7" leaves a lot of doors open and closes none.

David

deerhunter5555, I did not think of that. Thank you for that tip.

Canzes, you make a good point!


To All, What's your opinion on detachable magazine vs floor plate? I was thinking of staying with either floor plate or possibly blind mag so as not to be constrained to COL due to detachable mag length. That seemed to be a big complaint with AR's not being able to use/load the 75gr amax.

I keep having rifles built and sending them down the road, each time they get lighter, think I am at peace now with #1 and lighter contour barrels.

I agree, pick the bullet, twist and have it throated correctly.

Yes...and they seem resemble a Kimber Montana more and more.

If Kimber made a lefty Montana, a lot of things would get obsolete. That lefty 223 has a pacnor 8 twist 3 groove and that target is with 75 amax. Don't hear many say they'd like a heavier rig.

Sometimes being a left is curse or blessing depending on how you look at it.

I'm in the same boat as you rifle will be for target and longer range hunting. I decided .260 rem varmint contour. Picked up a rem hunter edge from McMillan for 450. I am now wavering on cerakote color and barrel length. 18" or 20"? I am going to move some stuff in the next couple weeks to cover the .223:)

If it's really mostly a paper puncher and by big game hunting you mostly mean deer hunting, I'd go .223. You'll shoot it more since it's cheaper and a lot of fun to shoot.

If .308, it'd be a 22" barrel at most.

The barrel would be stainless steel either way.

Wrangler13--
For a .260, I would go longer and thinner on the barrel. Why spend extra $$ for edge construction and then add back way more weight in the barrel contour? The balance would be awful. But if you are a fixed position (i.e., benches, stands and blinds) hunter, that may not be a big deal.

To the OP--
As a budget constrained left handed shooter, I have been building low dollar customs since about 1982. I have gradually decided that you have to figure out clearly what you want the custom to do that you otherwise cannot get in factory gun; otherwise you have just duplicated an over-the-counter item for three times the money. Sometimes for me that just means I want a chambering different that is available to lefties (ever find a factory lefty in .257 Roberts, 338-06, or .416 Rem?). The most common performance profile I am building for is light weight, better (but not pseudo-BR) accuracy, and absolutely stable point of aim. So I tend to use factory actions, thin barrels (mostly stainless, but not always), and good synthetic stocks (mostly McMillan, but some Brown and Bansner thrown in for good measure.) I have therefore never sprung the money for one of the precision Remington clone actions, although I certainly see the appeal. I have also learned how to replace triggers and do passable bedding jobs, and have small number of gunsmiths I use who do a fine chambering job for not too much money or months of waiting. I scrounge for parts and donor actions, and figure that my guns cost 40% of what going to a well known gunsmith with an 18 month waiting list would charge for a turnkey build.

But my design preferences are also shaped by my hunting style and region. I just got back from a cow elk hunt that took 3 days and probably 15+ miles of hiking in steep country, about half of which was by headlamp after dark. A gun that doesn't have 400 yards of effective range or that weighs more than about 8 pounds all up tends to get left at home.

An 8" will handle anything 82 grs and under which is optimal, if 90's are on the menu than a 7" is the way to go, I don't see a lot of guys using the 90's, I know I don't have any use for them in a 223!

The stupidity you display in your inability to use a twist rate calculator when the link is supplied and your lack of reading comprehension is duly noted.

David

I'll take this marginal stability all day long.................

More marginal stability................3 more heavy's @ 400

Factory 8" twist...........

Congratulations! You've discovered that you don't need optimal stabilization to achieve accuracy at short range!

I'm guesing you bought a barrel recently and it's important to you that others are as short sided as you in their selection?

What were the downsides to extra twist?

David

Keep guessing...................

I'm not guessing about you being an ignorant dumaba$$.


What were the downsides to additional twist again?


David

You might actually try shooting some time...............

It's a wise choice for you to avoid discussing any particulars. It's the only real choice you had.

David

Seriously is that the best you can do?

maybe you can hang some pics of your 8" twisted 223 that won't stabilize the heavies............

I have an 8" twisted 223, shoots 75amax's beautifully. For a factory rifle available off the shelf it was a good choice. If I'm going to buy a custom made barrel I'm going to get it in a 7" twist so that it will fully stabilize the 75amax and perhaps some future bullets that aren't being made yet (22cal Barnes LRX comes to mind).

The difference between fully stabilized and marginally stabilized is fully explained in the link I provided. It also very clearly states that it may be possible to shoot really good groups w/ marginally stabilized rifle/bullet combinations. The main improvement is increased BC.

Increased BC with the same projectile is a free ride that's always appreciated - moreso in a case of limited capacity. The increased twist rate has no negative effects, group sizes don't suffer, light bullets still shoot great, you don't lose any velocity. Seeing how there is no downside and a small (but noticeable) upside to the faster twist, I would specify a faster (7") twist on a custom ordered barrel.

Start another thread if you want to discuss it in more detail quit hacking up the OP's thread. I'm done responding to you in this thread.

David

I would caution you on that heavy of a barrel for the 308. I have a varmint contour 260 thinking it would be a good learning tool for shooting long. In Indiana, it's not that easy, as you know to find a place to shoot long. I'd opt for something in the 8# or so range. You'll like it better when you take it hunting and it's plenty heavy enough to enjoy at the range.

pointer,

yes, I was re-thinking the heavy barrel contour thing on the 308Win. Agree with you on the Indiana thing.

If only building one rifle, I'd split the difference and do a good magnum-sporter weight rig in a SA 6.5mm chambering, like the Creed or the 260. With a 22"-23" #3 or #4, it wouldn't be too terribly heavy and would be enjoyable at the range. Like others have said, build for balance. A standard-fill stock would work better here than an Edge. A 22" #3 contour Creed in a McMillan Hunter would be hard not to like, and good factory target/hunting loads abound, should someone get in a position to not handload.

This is a splendid idea. And perhaps it's because it describes my recent Creed build to a tee.

I'd build an 8 or 7 twisted .223. #3ish contour finished @ 20". No more than a 1" shank.

Make sure you know what your limit is going to be for COAL. Seat some dummy cartridges accordingly and make sure the smith understands why you are including them in the box.

DBM's can limit COAL, they can also increase COAL. Depends what we're going to use on the build.

If this is going to be primarily a range toy and hunting from a blind, I'd not hesitate to go heavy as fugk on the barrel and put it in an A5. Just a thought.

I wouldn't look past a 10X Super Sniper for glass. Maybe the 3-9X HD if you want a variable.


Travis

Well, I'd say you chose wisely..... grin....

I wanted something for (mostly) range time, but that would double over for light BG in open country, and pestering coyotes and other varmints. The result is a short Rem 700 action,Timney trigger,a #3 fluted Benchmark barrel at 25", and an Echols Shrike. Chambering is 6.5 Creedmoor.



It's being bedded now so I don't know what it weighs. Not a big concern because I was not trying for a super lightweight rifle but think it will come in around 8 pounds,but if it goes a bit heavier I'm not concerned. Considering it's intended use it's a belly gun anyway,and I suspect it will do what I want.

I hear the Hornady factory ammo is excellent so am laying in a supply,along with brass,bullets, and dies. Im guessing this will be a cakewalk. We'll see.

You have been given a lot of advice, some good and IMO some not so good. Threads like these invariably bring out responses of what folks would like to build for themselves.

First of all you need to define "big game". If big game is deer then you are just fine with the 223 idea. I can guarantee that you will shoot a 223 much more than a 308, you will also enjoy shooting it much more than a 308, and you will save some money in powder and bullet costs.
If deer is to be your big game and you go with the 223 I disagree with the fast twist/heavy for caliber bullets. It is a fact that the slower twists, even 1-12 stablilize a 55 gr very well and give the best accuracy, if you have any doubts about this take a look at what the benchrest boys shoot for twists. In order to kill a deer a premium 55 gr bullet will do just fine (take a look at some of Ingwe's posts).

Why not build a custom in a caliber that you will enjoy shooting, shoot a lot and if you should decide to hunt big game (larger than deer) buy an appropriate caliber off the shelf rifle for that endeavor. Especially since you have stated that you are mostly just shooting paper and a fun range gun.

Just my opinion like everyone else who has posted but I do enjoy the small calibers and of them for what you mentioned it seems that a 223 would fill the bill.

drover

Lots of money spent on LH customs that will not shoot as well as the cheap Ruger LH Americans. Some things I do not like on them but tough to argue with results. 6.5 # LH rifle that is under $400 and they are very accurate.

This is the exact route I am taking. 6.5 Creed. Mine will be a 23" #4 Schneider that mikes about like a Rem sporter. If I had gone .223, I would have gone #3. Bansner custom stock w/adjustable cheek piece ( LGS fabricates his own). I already own a Tikka 8 twist .223. Although I don't have it in hand, I am comfortable based on LGS and much advise from here. Primary purpose is long range target, coyote, and backup big game (think deer, etc).

IM(left handed)O a rifle along these lines fits YOUR criteria perfectly. The 6.5 Creedmoor is an outstanding cartridge, and I suspect the more you shoot it the more you'll like it. The .308 is good too, but with the excellent Hornady factory ammo, less recoil and longer ranging capabilities the 6.5 Creedmoor is better.

Also WRT to calibers, stay away from the .223 in a full size action. Don't get me wrong, the .223 is an excellent caliber, but everyone I've had in a full size action with a box magazine has had feeding problems, which is extremely irritating in a custom build. The chances of a 6.5 Creedmoor feeding properly in a full size action are much higher. Plus in a standard twist barrel of 1/12" with 50/55 grain bullets it peeters out after about 350 yards.

I know you said this is mostly a range gun, but if sometime in the future you decide to attend a rifle training course, which are a LOT of fun and well worth the expense, the 6.5 Creedmoor will be perfect. The .308 would be good too, the .223 not as much.

I also like the idea of using a fiberglass stock instead of a carbon fiber edge for your first custom because it's been my experience the edge stocks are just a little harder to shoot well.

As for scopes, I'd recommend either a Bushnell 3-12 LRHS or a Zeiss HD5 2-10 with RapidZ 600 reticle depending on your focal plane preference and whether or not you like to dial or hold over/out.

Lots of experienced riflemen are building similar rigs, myself included. If you go this route, your first custom will be very nice. Good Luck!

LJB

My next build might be something like this:
6.5 Creedmoor
GAP Templar SA
Bartlein 2b 6.5mm 8 twist, 22"
3/4" shank max
Badger M4 alloy bottom metal
Manners EH-6 Elite Gap stock
probably seekins rail and rings
LRHS scope if the 25 oz don't mess the balance.

Wow! A lot of 6.5 creedmor being built!

Thank you for sharing what you're putting together.

Meh, that might work.

*grins*

leomart,

I forgot the parallax zero on the HD5 2-10 with the RapidZ 600 reticle is set to 300 yards/meters. This is a great feature for longer range shooting, but if most of your range time is at 100 yards, its the wrong scope. The HD5 2-10 with Plex type reticle, or what you have on hand are better choices. Sorry about that.

LJB

LJB,

I'm from Indiana as is pointer, who pointed out that there isn't much opportunity for true long range shooting here.

The longest range my sportsman club has is 300 yards. I think this will be a good start. Then maybe mid-range, say 400-600yards. I doubt I'll ever get as good as you guys shooting 800yards, 1,000 yards or longer.

As other have mentioned, a nice fast twist 223rem will probably get me there cheaply enough. As for my "big game" talking white tail deer and wild boar if I want to travel.

Perhaps, I'm thinking wrong, but I'm looking at economical cartridges to shoot that will allow me to shoot a lot relative cheaply. Thus my choice in 223rem and 308win.

223 wins hands down for what you're looking to do. Once I picked up a 223 with a varmint contour barrel it became my #1 range rifle. I will eventually rebarrel it with a fast twist tube but I just don't get to shoot long often enough and figure I might as well burn out the factory tube first with the couple thousand bulk 55gr sp's I have on hand.

The real question is how do you hunt? If spot and stock I'd go lighter with a 6X, if from a stand or blind with longer shooting lanes go chunk and 10X.