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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638 |
First of all you have ZERO chance of claim in Court.
Secondly your claim needs clarification"
Except for a single 1/2" group it is a 11/2" rifle.
I don't even Understand.
Your SO CALLED guarantee needs to be established in a court of law.
There is NO help available. sorry! Good lord you're stupid
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638 |
Secondly, without a written performance guarantee, signed by both party's, the buyer doesn't have a Maidens prayer. It is hearsay inadmissible in a court of law.
Fourth: When the buyer threatens to return the rifle, all the provider has to say is NO. Then it's an impasse. The two choices are #1. Swallow your pride and keep the rifle with the knowledge that you have been duped.. #2. Go to court for recourse and recovery. Which you will LOSE if it's a verbal agreement.
It may come as a shock but I was in the contracting business for years with State Governments as well as Federal Governments and local private contractors. I know the rules and requirements for compliance.
So you're a legal expert too? Laffin.......
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,910
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,910 |
What loads/bullets did this rifle shoot the small groups with?
Sometimes they can be fickle and it takes some playing to get it just right.
Hope you get it figured out.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Willie says: It may come as a shock but I was in the contracting business for years with State Governments as well as Federal Governments and local private contractors. I know the rules and requirements for compliance. No shock whatsoever to see your verification that you are a product of "Government" contracting experience. Abject stupidity, coupled with truly mind boggling arrogance typify that game, and a dishonest streak's a real carrier enhancer. All in all, you seem very highly qualified. GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,207
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,207 |
Willie says: It may come as a shock but I was in the contracting business for years with State Governments as well as Federal Governments and local private contractors. I know the rules and requirements for compliance. No shock whatsoever to see your verification that you are a product of "Government" contracting experience. Abject stupidity, coupled with truly mind boggling arrogance typify that game, and a dishonest streak's a real carrier enhancer. All in all, you seem very highly qualified. GTC Sucking chit from Wayside latrines don`t take to much smarts. 
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,626
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,626 |
Why it is that the 95% plus of good guys here and the owners, moderators and SYOPS tolerate these spoilers.
One of the best hunter, shooter, re-loader sites ever is being sullied and sabotaged by these dysfunctional, perverted halfwits.
![[Linked Image]](http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/bobmarleyneilyoung/Mobile%20Uploads/box-of-rocks-meme-generator-this-is-a-box-of-rocks-please-try-to-be-smarter-than-it-2d8dba_zpszxl2pd7v.jpeg)
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 670
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 670 |
Hey Guys:
Help me with this. What is a 11/2 rifle?
1/4" guarantee. What does that mean ?
I have a .25-06 Neidner Wildcat that shoots a 1/4" bullet. I may be wrong but it could be .257" diameter. How do I get a 1/4" group ?
The OP says he contracted for a 7-08 whatever that may be. Isn't 7mm - .284". How can you get a .250 group.
How does one measure group size?
Last edited by William_E_Tibbe; 10/12/15.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804 |
One way is between the centers of the bullet holes. The diameter of the bullet doesn't matter.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,842
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,842 |
One way is between the centers of the bullet holes. The diameter of the bullet doesn't matter. Or outside to outside - bullet diameter.
Me
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804 |
Very few rifles meet what I'd call a 1/4" at 100 yards guarantee.
"This is a 1/4" rifle" should mean something on the order of the following:
Assuming good range conditions and ammunition the rifle likes, the guarantor should be able to use the rifle, on demand, to shoot a set of five, five shot groups averaging no more than 1/4" at 100 yards.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804 |
One way is between the centers of the bullet holes. The diameter of the bullet doesn't matter. Or outside to outside - bullet diameter. That's common, but it under reports group size.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,842
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,842 |
I just think it's easier to find outside edges than to "guesstimate" the center of the bullet hole when measuring groups.
Particularly as people tend to report groups to 3 decimal places.
Me
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,993
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,993 |
The OP says he contracted for a 7-08 whatever that may be. Isn't 7mm - .284". How can you get a .250 group.
How does one measure group size?
Willy, if you've handloaded, wildcatted, and shot for 70 years, how is it that you never learned what a group is?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
.4 - .7 Three shot groups might be more realistic in a sporter 7/08.
Run one hole 5 shot groups from a 700 Varmint -
140 BTs over 4064 - edged out Varget in accuracy.
Use best brass. WW if not Lapua or Norma. Primers can matter. Seating depth MATTERS - A lot....close or into lands worked best for me, but some folks do well with a jump. For 1/4 " me thinks a jump won't cut it. But not many spotters do 1/4" consistently. Perfect rifle,load, conditions, and injun.
Also- Mathman gave good advice.
If me, I would run 140 AB/BT, 140 VLD, 150 BT. The 150 Sierra MK is a very accurate bullet but not my choice for hunting.
Good luck.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
The OP says he contracted for a 7-08 whatever that may be. Isn't 7mm - .284". How can you get a .250 group.
How does one measure group size?
Willy, if you've handloaded, wildcatted, and shot for 70 years, how is it that you never learned what a group is? It really depends what "level" you're thinking on. Pick a level, any level. I think the inside of this Tibbe's head must sound like a ball mill running completely empty, on badly worn bearings.
Last edited by crossfireoops; 10/12/15.
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 11,735
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 11,735 |
For the half dozen 7-08's I have owned the magic load is 44-45grs of R15 with a 120 Bal Tip at 2.800-2.810. The 120 is heavier constructed then a 140.
I can't remember one that didn't shoot consistently under an inch.
But as for me and my house we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil. 4:13
I DON'T NEED A WSM AS I HAVE A WEATHERBY!
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,804 |
I just think it's easier to find outside edges than to "guesstimate" the center of the bullet hole when measuring groups.
Particularly as people tend to report groups to 3 decimal places. Yeah, and for a lot of purposes it's really moot. That said, I just did a test. I have a target on my desk with two groups shot by a 7mm rifle. The bullet marks are well defined. First I measured directly center to center as carefully as I could. Then I measured outside and subtracted a bullet diameter. This second measurement produced a smaller number. Then I measured the diameter of the bullet hole marks. They were .25" to .26". Call it .03 under bullet diameter. Care to guess what the difference in the group size measurements was?
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
I'd run from any maker that guaranteed a 1/4" in a sporter...
Because telling lies doesn't bother him.
And even if he could pull it off, 98% of the people who shoot rifles aren't' capable of consistent 1/4" groups. myself included.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,437
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,437 |
I'd run from any maker that guaranteed a 1/4" in a sporter...
Because telling lies doesn't bother him.
And even if he could pull it off, 98% of the people who shoot rifles aren't' capable of consistent 1/4" groups. myself included. True that!
μολὼν λαβέ
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 670 |
I just think it's easier to find outside edges than to "guesstimate" the center of the bullet hole when measuring groups.
Particularly as people tend to report groups to 3 decimal places. Yeah, and for a lot of purposes it's really moot. That said, I just did a test. I have a target on my desk with two groups shot by a 7mm rifle. The bullet marks are well defined. First I measured directly center to center as carefully as I could. Then I measured outside and subtracted a bullet diameter. This second measurement produced a smaller number. Then I measured the diameter of the bullet hole marks. They were .25" to .26". Call it .03 under bullet diameter. Care to guess what the difference in the group size measurements was? _________________________________________________________ No, I try to avoid guessing. But tell us !
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