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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697 |
I've been doing this stuff for years... Calhoon's Website got me going on it, with the 218 Bee or Not article...
allows a lot of shooting and is more accurate than a 22 LR...
originally I found that I could reduce load a 223 for less than the cost of 22 Mag ammo, and that was when it was like $7 a box of 50.. plus was more accurate and could be tailored to fit my desires or needs....
I liked the flexibility it offered, the economy of it, reduction in barrel wear, not having to stop and let the barrel cool off.. sure it isn't macho like full power loads, but I don't need that feeling anyway....
people who shoot my loads in my guns, love em...
right now I am messing with 12.5 grains of IMR 4198 in both the 223 and 22.250.... turns them both into very accurate 22 Mag equivalents... and with the right scope on top, gives me a 150 yd load, and if understand the trajectory thing...can easily give me a 200 yd load...
30/30 speeds....which at a 200 yd range is more than enough for my target shooting needs...and works well come varmint season.. ain't all I carry, but is what I do most of my shooting with....yet with the right bullets can be awfully explosive still....
Tom re inspired me to play with this stuff... so these 12.5 grain loads are now my Official "Ingwe Bunny Loads"...
Trail Boss, I've got about 7 lbs of that ( which will go a long way)... especially when 4 grains of it, are my official
"Ingwe 22 LR Substitute Loads"....
and as Tom said, its as much fun loading this stuff up as it is going out and shooting them...
still haven't forgotten my Blue Dot loads either... this just adds more fun to it all...
and Bulk Bullets and Nosler's Shooters ProShop are your friends... l
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,896 |
All this talk on the reduced load thread has me thinking....then using the reduced loads in the field the last couple days has planted the germ of an idea in my head, that I think will fester into a full blown infection.
This....from my OP... Heres the idea: since I have more than enough " Varmint Rifles" and a spare action and stock laying around,I figure to barrel it with a plain jane .223 factory barrel, cut to 22inches, put it in the " Mountain Rifle" synthetic version stock, duracoat it and scope it with a Leupy 3x9 and make it a 'dedicated' reduced load ( i.e. substitute for a rimfire) rifle..... Looney enough?  Whaddaya think? Nothing looney about it. Makes good sense to me....or does that just make me a Looney?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
right now I am messing with 12.5 grains of IMR 4198 in both the 223 and 22.250.... turns them both into very accurate 22 Mag equivalents... and with the right scope on top, gives me a 150 yd load, and if understand the trajectory thing...can easily give me a 200 yd load...
Tom re inspired me to play with this stuff... so these 12.5 grain loads are now my Official "Ingwe Bunny Loads"...
John, Im gonna write this one down and give it a try! But first, you gotta tell me what weight bullet!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: May 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2011
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John, Im gonna write this one down and give it a try!
But first, you gotta tell me what weight bullet! Inquiring minds want to know...
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697 |
Well Tom,
Been playing with it earlier this week, but between my son being in an accident in his ambulance, then the Umpqua College Shooting ( his agency is the one in Roseburg that was called in ) and now I have to go home to Virginia for my aunt passing....I've gotten a little side tracked....
I haven't chronographed these yet, , but am guestimating the MV based on info out of a Lyman Cast Bullet manual based on their data...
but I have tested it this week for accuracy, out to 100 yds, in both the 223 and 22.250, with 50 grain Hornady SPs, 55 grain Hornady SPs, and 60 grain Hornady SPs....
each one was as accurate as my Blue Dot loads...
I can pass on, that with a 12.5 grain charge, IMR's 4198 is a lot more accurate than Hodgdon's 4198 was with these charges...
Since the pressure is so low on these loads also that:
1. Neck sizing is all that is needed for the next 4 reloads...
2. Pistol or Rifle primers work equally well...
a little higher pressure ( I assume) due to a higher point of impact with the rifle primers... but pistol primers worked just fine...
According to Cast Bullet load data, these loads are in the pressure range well under 20,000 CUPs...
as soon as I am back home from Virginia, I'll chronograph these....might be a week and a half to 2 weeks from now tho...I am going there by Road Trip...
In my Ruger American Predator ( 223) and the Steven 200 ( 22.250) these proved more accurate than Trail Boss in these two rifles...
also on the list for the Ruger, is 75 grain bullets with this powder charge... along with 68 grain Hornady HPs...
I am not looking for these to be an alternative to Trail Boss loads...( which I'll be shooting a bunch of this winter), but as a step up...right in the 2000 fps range..
Last edited by Seafire; 10/03/15. Reason: addendum added
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Thanks John. As Always, good info!
I'll try some of these!
Im headed out of town myself this week, so It'll be a few days till Im back.
Last edited by ingwe; 10/03/15.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2013
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I am in utter concordance with this rimfire substitute idea, and have been for a few years. I ended up getting a Lee Bator mold and working up rimfire power level loads for 218 Bee and 223, and assisted my brother in doing the same for his 221 FB, 22 Hornet, 22-250. I opted for Unique and Blue Dot, he decided finally on Titegroup. We both picked two power levels: the lessor at about 1200, using non-GC Bators, and the greater at about 1600 using GC. I'm still working on accuracy problems for power level #3: 2k+. We were using a very soft alloy for the other two, and accuracy falls apart at about 1700 in my bee, and below that in 223. Have some harder bullets ready to load, but haven't gotten to it yet. These cast bullet loads are more accurate than my rimfires.
We moved on to work up loads for 17 Mach 4 and 17 Fireball with 20gr bullets and Titegroup to mimic the 17 M2 and the HMR as well. Accuracy hovers around 3/4" at 100.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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OK...an outing with the 50 gr load ( Vmax) The load seemed to be a tad faster, and more destructive, no worries cause it was nothing but head shots, but the wounds were on par with the 17HMR.....shots were taken out to 75 yards. 20 bunnies in the cooler, all head shots with the reduced 50 grain load... Heres the last nine..... ![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/IMG_1914_zpsjfazmkwk.jpg)
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 44,934
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 44,934 |
OK...an outing with the 50 gr load ( Vmax) The load seemed to be a tad faster, and more destructive, no worries cause it was nothing but head shots, but the wounds were on par with the 17HMR.....shots were taken out to 75 yards. 20 bunnies in the cooler, all head shots with the reduced 50 grain load... Heres the last nine..... BBQ?, hassenpfeffer? Dog toys?  Nice job, where do I apply?  Thnaks for the thread Ingwe. With any luck I'm going to try out the 25-20 with trail boss as my 22 substitute. Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
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Most of those are destined for the frying pan, gravy and biscuits!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 44,934
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 44,934 |
biscuits, gravy, and "furry things",
a man can't get a whole lot better than that.
Time for the hockey game. Nice that I can get them on the 'puter,
Enjoy those bunnies.
Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Joined: May 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,861 |
Most of those are destined for the frying pan, gravy and biscuits! Please advise, I'll bring dessert...
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
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Well, Ive laid in enough of them to last a year, so it'll be happening once a week....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
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OP
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
OK, FWIW my spare rifle is at the Smith getting rebarelled to plain .223 and cut to 22 inches to ostensibly become a dedicated reduced load gun....... I suppose I could shoot regular .223s in it if I ever got the hankering to... Cant have enough .223s....right?
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,861
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,861 |
how fast will you twist the barrel?
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Its gonna be a Rem. take off with a 1 in 12 twist...should handle 50s and 55s no problemo......
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697 |
I've been out testing 80 grain Match bullets in a Ruger American Predator.... need to finish tomorrow...
just in case anyone has any interest in the results...
using 4198 vs Trail Boss...
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,365
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,365 |
I've been out testing 80 grain Match bullets in a Ruger American Predator.... need to finish tomorrow...
just in case anyone has any interest in the results...
using 4198 vs Trail Boss... I'm interested in you charge range of 4198
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,861
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,861 |
I've been out testing 80 grain Match bullets in a Ruger American Predator.... need to finish tomorrow...
just in case anyone has any interest in the results...
using 4198 vs Trail Boss... You know I'll be interested in your results.
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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