Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles 223 reduce loads

looking for some data using blue dot in the 223 for reduce loads, I know its been covered here but cant find it. My trail boss powder is slowly going down so I don't want to use it in my 223 and since I just picked up 15 pounds a blue dot for reduced loads in the 223 I'll leave the trail boss to the bigger calibers

Your load should be somewhere around 13.6 to 14.0 for 35 and 40 grainers. I run 13.8 and it shoots great.

Seafire should be along any time now with a link to his data, he's done all sorts of voodoo with reduced loads.

He also set me straight with Blue Dot in another case, there's a fill ratio that you can use as a basis. Pour a case full of Blue Dot, dump that into a scale, weigh it. 60 percent of that weight should be close to a top load of Blue Dot.

When converting to Fireball, that rule worked well.

Sounds good something like the ratio for trail boss fill the case up to where the base of the bullet will be, weigh the powder and that's you max load

Anyone else

PM Seafire. I have shot his loads and they are amazing.

Who's this Seafire Character you guys refer to?

I have read that he is the guy the wants to blow everybody up, esp. small children, and women when teaching them how to shoot..

Anyway that's what Hot Core use to say over at "accurate reloading"..
He musta' have tried Blue Dot loads on the sly when no one was looking and blew his own sorry ass up, cuz he hasn't posted there in years..

He's the guy that got Ingwe thinking about 'Bunny Loads'.....

I have also read of this mythical Seafire character, in my search for reduced .223 loads. Please expound upon that info here.

Just some nut in Southern Oregon.

I don't know the guy...


But if any of you can use this, you're more than welcome to copy it....read that it was safe in someone's firearms when tested...
but you know how internet rumors go...


Blue Dot Range Report: 223 Caliber ( Full )

Bullet Weights Tested:
1. 35 grain Hornady V Max
2. 40 grain Hornady Vmax
3. 45 grain Sierra SP
4. 50 grain Sierra SMP
5. 52 grain Sierra Boat Tail Match
6. 55 grain Winchester FMJ

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, VT 26 inch Barrel, Stainless Steel First yr Model

Case: Lake City Surplus, previously fired

Primer: Remington 6 ½

Powder: Blue Dot

Charge Weight Tested: 4 grains to 14 grains.


Weather: Sunny, NO clouds, 80 degrees, NO wind,

Altitude: 2000 ft

Humidity: Very Low


Field Results:


35 grain Hornady V Max:

4 grs: 1284 fps
5 grs: 1488 fps
6 grs: 1862 fps
7 grs: 2163 fps
8 grs: 2392 fps

9 grs: 2636 fps
10 grs: 2722 fps
11 grs: 3076 fps
12 grs: 3205 fps
13 grs: NO Reading
14 grs: 3518 fps



Hornady 40 grain Vmax:

4 grs: 1161 fps
5 grs: 1538 fps
6 grs: 1798 fps
7 grs: 2148 fps

8 grs: 2243 fps
9 grs: 2539 fps
10 grs: 2771 fps
11 grs: 2956 fps

12 grs: 3013 fps
13 grs: 3218 fps
14 grs: 3375 fps


Sierra 45 grain SP

4 grs: 1239 fps
5 grs: 1447 fps
6 grs: 1688 fps
7 grs: 1880 fps

8 grs: 2118 fps
9 grs: 2363 fps
10 grs: 2553 fps
11 grs: 2811 fps

12 grs: 2875 fps
13 grs: 3008 fps
14 grs: 3164 fps


Sierra 50 grains SMP

4 grs: 1064 fps
5 grs: 1345 fps
6 grs: 1624 fps
7 grs: 1788 fps

8 grs: 2033 fps
9 grs: 2257 fps
10 grs: 2466 fps
11 grs: 2655 fps
12 grs: 2779 fps

13 grs: 2882 fps
14 grs: 3038 fps


Sierra 52 grain Boattail Hollow Point Match

4 grs: 1061 fps
5grs: 1460 fps
6 grs: 1632 fps
7 grs: 1916 fps

8 grs: 2142 fps
9 grs: 2225 fps
10 gr: NO Reading
11 grs: 2673 fps

12 grs: 2782 fps
13 grs: 2879 fps
14 grs: 3012 fps


Winchester 55 grain FMJ

4 grs: 896 fps
5 grs: 1264 fps
6 grs: 1568 fps
7 grs: 1825 fps
8 grs: 1994 fps

9 grs: 2201 fps
10 grs: 2328 fps
11 grs: 2453 fps

12 grs: 2677 fps
13 grs: 2821 fps
14 grs: 2915 fps



Notes:

1. IN the evaluation of the 223, I came further to the conclusion of the versatility of the 223 in the use of training new shooters, and for a very versatile varmint caliber.
2. Essentially the 223 can be loaded to the specs of a 22 Long rifle, a 218 Bee, a 221 Fireball, a 222 Remington, a 22 Hornet, and a 22 Win Mag., while allowing the shooter to be able to pick the type of bullet that he prefers.
3. Bullets were limited to use of 35 grains to 55 grains. Heavier bullets will not serve any purpose unless a 223 is to be used for deer hunting. I do not believe that their would be a significant difference in the use of a 55 grain bullet vs a 60 grain bullet.
4. The recoil on the lighter loads using 4 to 6 grains of powder had minimal recoil if any at all. These would be ideal for young shooters being trained.
5. Noise level on the lighter loads ( 4 to 6 grains) were on par with a rim fire. An increase in noise level was very noticeable above 7 grains, but still very acceptable. ( No sounding like a rim fire any more)

Noted Observations:

1. It was noted but not considered part of the testing, with a tree used as a back stop for some of the testing, that all bullets ( 45 to 55 grains)penetrated thru the tree at a distance of 20 yds.
2. The diameter of the tree was measured at 5 inches.
3. The 40 grain Vmax loads failed to penetrate the tree at loads above 10 grs, above 2771 fps. However at 10 grains and less, the bullets penetrated thru the tree and did a large amount of damage ( like turning the wood into tooth picks) on the exit side of the tree. The penetration stopped at the 5 grain load.


Some of the Authors Conclusions:

1. I learned some significant items beyond the versatility of the 223 with the bullets tested, but focusing on its use in the field, got some ideas.
2. A light rifle such as a Winchester Featherweight or Rugers Compact model with a 16.5 inch barrel or the Ultra Light with a 20 inch barrel would make a good combo with the use of Blue Dot.
3. Since the powder is burned cleanly in the first 10 to 12 inches of barrel, the shorter barrels are not handicapping velocity in the lighter shorter rifles.
4. The penetration of the 40 grain Vmax into the tree did make me ponder the use of those plastic tip varmint rounds as potential loads for small deer for youth shooters. Just like my observations in the larger calibers, the plastic tipped bullet seem to do a lot more damage, at velocities under 2700 fps. The Vmax surprised me. This is a decision any shooter will have to test on his own and make their own decisions. I am just passing on that I saw potential merit in the application.
5. Although one has to weigh out the potential of Plastic Tipped Varmint bullets on bigger game like deer and antelope, some of these loads in real life use, utilizing Barnes X bullets in 22 caliber I can recommend. They make a 45 grain, 50 grain and 53 grain bullet. The way I saw much better penetration and more damage in wood, at the lower range velocities, 2200 to 2700 fps, this would make a good deer load in many parts of the USA, and recoil is minimal.


I did not test any bigger bullets as I feel that those tested would be represent the best potential with the powder. 60, 63, 64, 65 grain bullets and then the larger match bullets did not give what I considered useful velocity when I have shot them before with Blue Dot, in respect to their field design uses.








Here is the following info on that range report:
this should help you out.. remember to charge a case and then seat the bullet before going onto the next cartridge, that will eliminate the chance of an accidental double charge.. blue dot is bulky tho.. near max charges will not be a problem...

223 Range Report

Powder: Blue Dot

Bullet: Berger 30 grain HP, Varmint

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 VT

Barrel Length: 26 inches

Primer Used: Winchester Small Rifle

Bullet O.A.L. : 15.55 mms

Cartridge O.A.L. : 57.93 mms


10 grs: 2844 fps

11 grs: 3082 fps

12 grs: 3210 fps

13 grs: 3407 fps

14 grs: 3712 fps

15 grs: 3797 fps

15.5 grs: 3814 fps

16 grs: 3873 fps

16.5 grs: 3957 fps.

Accuracy Potential:
Load of 15 grains of Blue Dot, 30 gr Berger, WSR primer:
5 shot group size@ 100 yds: 0.4260 0.224 bullet diameter = 0.202 group size
Scope: 6.5 x 20 Simmons.. setting at 10 Power.

Personally my max load is 15 grains.. the extra 150 fps between that and 16.5 grains is not much gained..

Again, these are for academic reference only, anyone using these do so at their own risk, as I can not be responsible for other people loading techniques.. these proved to be accurate in my firearms¦

Thanks for posting this again Seafire!
Any chance you could post or send me a Pm with your 243 data?

Also, bluedot is pretty scarce around my area, but I have a bunch of 4198, I seem to remember that it makes some nice reduced loads too, do you have any info for it in the 223?

I'd have to hunt around for my 243 data...

I've got guidelines that I use for my own...

funny you should mention 4198 and the 223...

along the lines of Ingwe's Bunny loads, I've been playing with or working with, creation for a bunch of data results
using 4198, RL 7, 3031, 4895, AR Comp just to name a few..

stuff that will work good for Ingwe's Bunny Loads and also work real well, for me to do a lot of off season shooting, with reduced velocity at 100 yds and smaller targets to simulate longer distances...without wearing out a barrel over the winter...

I have laid in a good supply of Hornady SP bullets, along with some Noslers Varmint stuff from the Pro Shop.. 63gr Varmaggedon SPs...

maybe I'll post some of those results on line here....

the short version on 4198 is...

14 grains with about any grain bullet you want to use, that corresponds with the ability of your twist rate...is accurate enough for small popcan sized varmints...head shots no less...

and 14 grains is not position sensitive with a regular Small Rifle primer...

14 grains will also yield exactly 500 rounds out of a pound of powder....

applies to both Hodgdon and IMR 4198s, and also RL 7 loads...

15 grains of 3031, 4895, AR Comp, RL 10 will also do the same and yield 466 rounds out of a pound of powder...

all giving groups that you can cover with between a quarter to a half dollar ( 50 cent piece) at 100 yds out of a high mileage Remington ADL in 223...

and I've done testing with bullet weights from 40 to 75 grains with these loads.. out of the Rem ADL and the Ruger American Predator...for the bullets requiring a faster twist...

Midway Pistol targets with 4 targets on an 8 1/2 by 11 sheet of paper.. 5 shots per target...

5 sheets of paper and 100 rounds make a leisurely shooting trip to the range...

if I get the time, and get off the laziness... and folks desire to see the results, I might get around to posting target results...

oh and its easy as hell on the brass...

three shots out of the brass, without even having to neck size it, just deprime and reprime...10 shots neck sizing and still not having to bump the shoulder back...

still annealing every 4th shot, just due to habit...

John I loaded up some of your 223 loads with 4198....12.5 grains and a 50 grain bullet and am waiting to try them in the new 'build'...

Thanks Seafire and Ingwe. great info.

I have a small mountain of 55 grain hornady sp bullets and want to get a lower blast, lower recoil load going in the 223 for my son (he is 4 1/2 years old and loves shooting rimfire but wants to shoot the "big guns" too).

Any idea of velocities of the 4198 loads?

If I dust off the old chrony graff and can get out in between rain squalls.. I'll try and toss a few across it and answer that question if you can be patient for the answer...

they're in the neighborhood of between 22 Mag speeds and 30/30 speeds...if that helps out...

the chrony would be specific, but that is ball parking it..

they are more than capable for 150 & to 200 yds if you understand your trajectory...and know how to use a little Kentucky windage...

I tell ya Tom... if they are as accurate as out of my Ruger American Predator, you'll be pleased...

5 shot groups out of it, at 100 yds with the scope on 10 Power, the groups can be covered with a dime if I hold still and a nickel if I am not so still...

yet there is enough velocity there, and the bullet still has enough integrity, that they still do some impressive penetration...

but won't over penetrate to upset Jeff O...

Dude, Ive been shooting that bullet in front of 8.0 grains of Trail Boss...havent clocked it but trajectory says its about 1900fps+ Noise level is that of a .22 mag....



As mentioned, still waiting to try the 4198 loads.

270 Dude....

for the 243 with 4198....

with any bullet weight, start out with 20 grains... and work yourself up to 25 grains...

think you'll find some accuracy and tamed recoil that you'll enjoy...

30 grains with a 100 grain bullet is getting close to max in a 243... so as you can see, with any weight under that, you're not pushing the pressure envelope at all...

yet there is still quite potential ooomph, to drop a deer at grandpa's 30/30 ranges...

You two should get together. You are both pretty darned nice guys and I think you might have a lot in common.