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Campfire Ranger
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I know large pistol caliber firearms are roundly hated here on the fire, poor Shrapnel every time he tells us about his Beretta CX4 Storm's gets lambasted mostly from people who just think 9mm, 40S&W suck from any type of carbine etc.
I was speaking to a person at my local gun store today and he has the 9mm storm. He loves the thing, accurate, cheap to shoot.
Tell me again why we don't want a light weight 9mm carbine? Why do we always want a 223?
I would think the 9mm CX4 would be practical for a home defense gun????
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Campfire Outfitter
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Most people just seem skeeered of the 9mm cartridge for some reason. I think a SBR EVO Scorpion or a Sig MPX would be handy in many situations.
Check out the military arms channel on youtube. He did a recent gellatin test with the 9mm.
But on the Beretta CX4 Storm, well, it looks like schitt.
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Oh Travis
This post is calling you
Hank
Thank You Lord for another day,Help my Brother along the way
When you mature,you realize hospitals and schools are businesses,and the Beatles were geniuses
Live Like A Champion Today
NRA EndowmentLife Member,My Daughter is also a Life Member
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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why not the 223 I think is a big argument?
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Campfire Outfitter
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I had a Colt 9mm AR and really liked it for a range gun and suppose it would work just fine at closer ranges. Run one through some drills and the zero recoil makes it easy to look good.
I just think the 223/5.56 offers so much more...
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Most people just seem skeeered of the 9mm cartridge for some reason. I think a SBR EVO Scorpion or a Sig MPX would be handy in many situations.
Check out the military arms channel on youtube. He did a recent gellatin test with the 9mm.
But on the Beretta CX4 Storm, well, it looks like schitt. Far from ugly. You want ugly, look at a Walther. The Storm will out shoot any carbine in it's class. People always badmouth the 9mm too, but you will never hear someone shot with a 9mm say..."Gee, that didn't hurt"...
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I think it's a great idea.
I've added one to "the list".
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Asstaed above, for the sMe size and weight and cost, you get more range and power from a 223/5.56.
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I don't want a 9MM carbine. I don't care though, if others want one. See no need to justify either choice.
Sam......
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Actually I do want one
Just have to prioritize gun money
BMT
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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You never hear someone shot with a .22 or even a pellet rifle saying "Gee that didn't hurt", but it doesn't make it a great choice for self defense. Yes, the 9mm out of a long barrel will do lots of things well, but it doesn't do anything better than the 5.56 except it is a tad quieter and kicks a bit less. As a fun gun, I say go for it. As a self defense gun, go for it. Better than a 5.56? Nope.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I will bet if you looked at the record of people killed throughout he world, with a 9mm, you would find more than a few. Getting more power to make up for personal ineptitude only goes so far. I would also speculate that 99% or more of people preparing themselves for self defense will never have to resort to their choice of firearm.
Massad Ayoob makes a living from selling fear of personal harm. He has written tons on personal defense, and as much as I believe in being prepared, it is guys like him writing all those articles that set up a society with a genuine fear and an artificial solution...
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Campfire Tracker
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My wife does not like to shoot a 5.56 carbine because of muzzle blast but loved a Ruger PC 40. I know it does not have the range or potential penetration of a 5.56 but a 180gr at 1300fps is nothing to complain about. The 165 golddot was right at 1400fps and is the go to load for her. I would much rather have her run the .40 or 9mm carbine she can hit with than the AR she does not like.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Most people just seem skeeered of the 9mm cartridge for some reason. I think a SBR EVO Scorpion or a Sig MPX would be handy in many situations.
Check out the military arms channel on youtube. He did a recent gellatin test with the 9mm.
But on the Beretta CX4 Storm, well, it looks like schitt. I saw that SIG MPX the other day, it is a cool looking pistol, I think the reviews on it are very good.
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I posted a few weeks back about pistol round AR's and received zero responses.
My thought was 45acp or 10mm, heavy bullets, sub-sonic and suppressed would be fun to shoot and beneficial in the rare instance I had to use it inside the home for self defense.
Dave
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Campfire Sage
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I prefer the .223 to just about anything these days. Bolt or semi.
But there are advantages to the pistol stuff in carbines. This was figured out in the 1800's so there's no reason to discuss advantages to commonality. Yes, it's still a pistol round but most people can put rounds on target at greater distance more easier when it's flying out of a shoulder fired weapon. As far as aesthetics, look at all the old Winchesters chambered in pistol rounds. You'd need a PhD in ugly to make a stupider looking firearm but they worked great and so do the Storms.
As far as the AR platform and pistol cartridges are concerned, I have seen some great running Colt's chambered in 9mm and that is where the "good" list ends. I won't even fire a .40 cal version and I've not seen one chambered in .45.
The .45 and the .40 cal versions (to me) are the most practical and the reason for that is sub-sonic stuff comes in factory form and is everywhere. Also, there is an untold amount of handloading info to keep stuff under 1,100fps and the firearms are still going to function 100% because they're built for those type of loads. If you have no desire to go suppressed, then this is of no concern to you. If you think super sonic ammo is "quiet enough" then this is of no concern to you either.
The Ruger carbines are UBER and I think they'd sell like crazy if they reintroduced them today. But they're only going up in price so they are what they are and I wouldn't want to alter one from factory form.
The Storms are not extremely common but they are common enough and can be had for a decent price. Threading is about $200 and if you want to SBR it, it's another $200 and you'll have a very compact carbine even with most suppressors attached.
I know the Blackout gets lots of love but I think if I want to sling 200gr bullets at sub-sonic speeds, I'd prefer to shoot a bullet designed to expand at sub-sonic speeds as opposed to something designed to fly from a 300 Win Mag.
Yes, I know about the Leheigh type bullets but at the end of the day you'll be paying a fugk of a lot more for 1,000 of those than you will for 1,000 XTP's. And for the ranges you shoot 200gr sub-sonic stuff you'll not notice a change in POI if you plink with HAP's.
This is why I don't hate them.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I don't like all that plastic, get a good Colt SAA and an 1873 and call it good.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I don't like all that plastic, get a good Colt SAA and an 1873 and call it good. That's what I told shrap. He won't listen. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Metrosexual. I've got $20 says he's had a Latte with Brad in Bozeman in the last week.
Ever notice in the pics that Shrap is dressed a lot like Paddler?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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At one time you could only get ~15 rd mags for the Storm in 9mm, but I think they finally fixed that problem. I still don't like the molded sight ears, and wish they would just go to a top rail.
I looked hard at pistol caliber carbines for a long time, but have gravitated to an AR in .300 Blackout. You can run it subsonic, or run supers that are hard on the heels of the .30-30.
There is one guy (CNC Gunsmithing) building an AR lower which accepts M2 grease gun .45 mags, which are cheap and plentiful. Pair it with a Oly Arms .45 upper, and you have a real interesting .45 carbine.
I won't say I'll never buy a 9mm carbine, but for now I am covered with what I have.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Outfitter
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I don't know why you wouldn't want a 5.56 for indoor self defense. Don't you like it when your ears bleed? 
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Metrosexual. I've got $20 says he's had a Latte with Brad in Bozeman in the last week.
Ever notice in the pics that Shrap is dressed a lot like Paddler? 
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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But on the Beretta CX4 Storm, well, it looks like schitt.
Need an MP-5... DF
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Campfire Outfitter
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But on the Beretta CX4 Storm, well, it looks like schitt.
Need an MP-5... DF I think the Sig MPX is more, for less. The current shortage of magazine availability is the only thing keeping me from getting one right now.
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Campfire Tracker
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"I think the Sig MPX is more, for less. The current shortage of magazine availability is the only thing keeping me from getting one right now."
I like the MPX, but after pricing the Mag's (plenty avail. at $80 or $90 each) an AR 9mm starts to look pretty good.
Jerry
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The MPX is a cool looking 9mm, but what can it bring to the party that a Colt 6920 cannot bring? What can it do that a colt cannot do? I like the idea, counting the plus signs I count lower cost practice ammo and less recoil for the MPX, then higher cost proprietary magazines, less range, less effectiveness on targets as the cons.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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The MPX is a cool looking 9mm, but what can it bring to the party that a Colt 6920 cannot bring? Nothing. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I have convinced myself against any 9mm carbine. I got to thinking of the deer and pigs I have killed with a 5.56 gun, and considered that a 9mm of any ilk would possible not have killed some of them.
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Campfire Outfitter
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You should be alright on using one on a small SE deer, I would think. All about the bullet.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I think I am just going to pass on it, I don't see anyone else trying a 9mm on a deer around these parts. I do have a story about a sheriff's deputy that dumped 2 full 9mm mags into a deer that got hit by a car and it was still moving... 
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I prefer the .223 to just about anything these days. Bolt or semi.
But there are advantages to the pistol stuff in carbines. This was figured out in the 1800's so there's no reason to discuss advantages to commonality. Yes, it's still a pistol round but most people can put rounds on target at greater distance more easier when it's flying out of a shoulder fired weapon. As far as aesthetics, look at all the old Winchesters chambered in pistol rounds. You'd need a PhD in ugly to make a stupider looking firearm but they worked great and so do the Storms.
As far as the AR platform and pistol cartridges are concerned, I have seen some great running Colt's chambered in 9mm and that is where the "good" list ends. I won't even fire a .40 cal version and I've not seen one chambered in .45.
The .45 and the .40 cal versions (to me) are the most practical and the reason for that is sub-sonic stuff comes in factory form and is everywhere. Also, there is an untold amount of handloading info to keep stuff under 1,100fps and the firearms are still going to function 100% because they're built for those type of loads. If you have no desire to go suppressed, then this is of no concern to you. If you think super sonic ammo is "quiet enough" then this is of no concern to you either.
The Ruger carbines are UBER and I think they'd sell like crazy if they reintroduced them today. But they're only going up in price so they are what they are and I wouldn't want to alter one from factory form.
The Storms are not extremely common but they are common enough and can be had for a decent price. Threading is about $200 and if you want to SBR it, it's another $200 and you'll have a very compact carbine even with most suppressors attached.
I know the Blackout gets lots of love but I think if I want to sling 200gr bullets at sub-sonic speeds, I'd prefer to shoot a bullet designed to expand at sub-sonic speeds as opposed to something designed to fly from a 300 Win Mag.
Yes, I know about the Leheigh type bullets but at the end of the day you'll be paying a fugk of a lot more for 1,000 of those than you will for 1,000 XTP's. And for the ranges you shoot 200gr sub-sonic stuff you'll not notice a change in POI if you plink with HAP's.
This is why I don't hate them.
Travis
^^^This guy is right. Again. ^^^ Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Outfitter
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CX4 can be tweaked if one so desires... ![[Linked Image]](http://static1.squarespace.com/static/51cf349fe4b0d391142a399e/t/5355ebdde4b08b5970d54684/1424780683560/FrankenStorm+3+cropped%2C+resized+for+web.jpg)
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I do have a story about a sheriff's deputy that dumped 2 full 9mm mags into a deer that got hit by a car and it was still moving... That's more a lack of brains than a lack of cartridge! 
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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All I know is there were more than a few slants and krauts sent to hell via pistol cartridge 'carbines' ![[Linked Image]](http://worldwar2headquarters.com/images/weapons/american/thompsonMachineGun.jpg) Seems the Brits liked the sterling
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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