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Anyone here successfully using a 7.62x39 for deer hunting and past 100 yards!!!!?
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Can't say that I have, but wouldn't hesitate to use it at that range coming out of an accurate rifle.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Campfire Tracker
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I shot one a bit past 100, maybe 125, with my Mini-30. I used a Hornady 130 grain SSP. First shot at the fast walking buck hit too far back, second follow up shot hit at the back edge of the rib cage quartering away. Both bullets exited. Internal damage wasn't what you would see from an '06 or similar cartridge, but fatal nonetheless.
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"It's an insecure and petite man who demands all others like what he likes and dislike what he dislikes."
szihn
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It works about like a .30-30 for distance and internal damage. And we know the .30-30 works. That is with soft points of course. Two of my friends bought CZ 527 carbines for deer work. Both are happy with the results.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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nephew loads his with 125 ballistic tips in his AR. I've taken pigs and deer to about 250 with it.
And one yote the other side of 500... we all laughed at the shot, the yote didn't.
Personally I think of it as basically a 200 yard deer gun. 300 not a problem for those inclined to know what to do and how to trail, as there is not a knock down factor in a slow round... but then folks were better at things like that back in the 30-30 days.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Tracker
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I have 2, Cz 527 carbine and a Remington 799. Both have worked well.
The 799 likes Rem soft points, the Cz Win Power Points.
IIRC, longest deer shot was 157, yote about 220.
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It's pretty much a .30-30, so why wouldn't it work? It would make a nifty 200 yard kid rifle especially.
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I put together a neat little 7.62x39 upper for my AR this year. I had short range deer hunting in mind when I put it together, and it goes 7# with a fully loaded 10 round mag. I topped it with a Leupold VX-3 1.75-6x32 with the heavy duplex reticle and I can keep 10 rounds of Federal Fusion in a 2" group at 100 yds firing fairly rapidly off a bench. Plenty good for what I thought it up for. It will do much better if I take my time and, I imagine, if I didn't have that fat duplex in a 6x scope.
The coolest thing is it collapses to about 31" long and is very handy in the blackjack oak thickets on my place.
Hopefully I have an on game performance report Saturday morning.
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Campfire Ranger
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A guy I work with uses one in a CZ 527 for deer. He's killed a bunch with it and says it works well. He claims it's about like a .30-30 but I KNOW it's not. How ? Because I've killed a shytton more deer with a .30-30 over the past 40 years than he has with the 7.62 and have recovered FAR fewer bullets from deer carcasses than he has. .30-30 equivalent my azz.
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He does sound a bit offended.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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It's because the 7.62x39 is metric.
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Strictly speaking, in original loads it drives 123's about as fast as a .30-30 drives 150's. Which would agree with giving deeper penetration out of the old Win round. The roosky round is loaded to only about 40,000 c.u.p. in deference to SKS's and AK's. It would be interesting to see what it would do in a strong bolt action or single shot. Of course, the same applies to the .30-30  I keep eyeing the current run of #1's in the caliber...
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Anyone here successfully using a 7.62x39 for deer hunting and past 100 yards!!!!? Yes, and yes.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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A guy I work with uses one in a CZ 527 for deer. He's killed a bunch with it and says it works well. He claims it's about like a .30-30 but I KNOW it's not. How ? Because I've killed a shytton more deer with a .30-30 over the past 40 years than he has with the 7.62 and have recovered FAR fewer bullets from deer carcasses than he has. .30-30 equivalent my azz. Define "shytton", please, as upstate NY with said bag limits does not a "shytton" create. Is the 7.62 the equivalent of the .30-30? No. In some ways it's inferior and in others superior, depending entirely upon platform each are in. Discount the SKS or AK variant as hunting rifles off the start, though, as accuracy (while possible) is an unlikely happenstance. A .30-30 in a tubular lever action (most common) restricted to flat-nose bullets (not really, but stay with me) fires a bullet with more mass, but the velocity bleeds off fast. Per the OPs question, past 100 yards the 123/125 spitzer of the 7.62x39 is packing as much or more power and retaining it better than the .30-30 FN. Inside 100, the .30-30 delivers more to the target; outside of that, the edge starts going to the 7.62x39 123/125 grain slug. If your 7.62x39 guns the 154 SPs well, then it is even out the gate and stays at least even all the way out. Amazing how folks constantly forget that there are heavier bullets in the little Russian available. Now, if you put the .30-30 in a single-shot or bolt action, then there is no replacement for displacement and the bigger engine room of the Winchester round gives you more gas onto which you can mash the pedal. Putting a ballistically non-handicapped bullet on top just frosts that cake. The little Russian round gunning the factor Remington or Federal SPs is a deer killer; giving up ground to the .30-30 inside of 100, but overtaking it outside the same. The Hornady SSTs should be at least as good (I'll be trying them this year). The 154s, if your rifle shoots them, are as equal to the .30-30 as you're likely to find ballistically. BT/DT, many times over with each.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Kahuna
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A guy I work with uses one in a CZ 527 for deer. He's killed a bunch with it and says it works well. He claims it's about like a .30-30 but I KNOW it's not. How ? Because I've killed a shytton more deer with a .30-30 over the past 40 years than he has with the 7.62 and have recovered FAR fewer bullets from deer carcasses than he has. .30-30 equivalent my azz. Someone say something? Sure there is a difference. And that can be changed by better choices on teh x39 end bullet wise and equaled with stupid choices on the 30-30 end. In the end the 2 rounds are so similar there isn't enough difference between them to matter, except for arguing sake.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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That's some really terrible logic.
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I've killed well over 200 deer total and over 70 with the .30-30. Been doing it for quite awhile and deer tags aren't as limited in NY as many seem to think. 170 grain bullets can safely be driven 2300 fps out of a lever .30-30 if you handload. Like to see the x39 equal that. Nothing out of the x39 will equal the delivered energy of a 160 Horny flex tip driven at 2400 fps at any range.. Period.
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Campfire Ranger
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A guy I work with uses one in a CZ 527 for deer. He's killed a bunch with it and says it works well. He claims it's about like a .30-30 but I KNOW it's not. How ? Because I've killed a shytton more deer with a .30-30 over the past 40 years than he has with the 7.62 and have recovered FAR fewer bullets from deer carcasses than he has. .30-30 equivalent my azz. Someone say something? Sure there is a difference. And that can be changed by better choices on teh x39 end bullet wise and equaled with stupid choices on the 30-30 end. In the end the 2 rounds are so similar there isn't enough difference between them to matter, except for arguing sake. You sre the fugg can't teach me anything about rifles, cartridges, ballistics or killing deer junior. Bank on it.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Well at least you have a few deer under your belt.
Yes, paper says one thing.
Your problem is you have not shot a fair amount with the 30-30 and the x39 to compare each. I have. Maybe on NY deer it could matter somehow.
On our deer, granted they rarely hit 200 and 150 on the hoof is pretty much about average for a buck, until he gets to 6.5 or so of age when he starts heading to 175 plus, there isn't a deer I have taken with the 30-30 that the x 39 cant' have done the same.
But you have your thoughts and I have mine.
I've also seen a LOT of pigs shot with the X 39. and very few with the 30-30, but the x39 has never failed... and on some fairly large pigs over the 250 mark.
Then again when you stick an X type bullet in a gun you have made it larger than it is.
this is about like arguing 308/30-06...when it comes to deer, take your pick, they both kill and are both more than enough.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Ok, now you start with the kindergarten stuff. lots of maturity there. Scream on brother.
And fwiw I've taken close to as many head of game with a BOW as you have with a gun... for starters....
And MIGHT be a known national competitor....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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Your typical 123-125 gr. sp x39 load is no match for the typical 170 gr. sp .30-30 load when it comes to penetration at sub 200 yd ranges. I've recoverd exactly one 170 gr. .30-30 bullet out of dozens of deer killed and that was a lengthwise shot. My co worker has recovered a half dozen 123-125 gr x39 sp's out of deer in the past couple seasons alone. None were lengthwise shots.
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Campfire Ranger
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Ok, now you start with the kindergarten stuff. lots of maturity there. Scream on brother.
And fwiw I've taken close to as many head of game with a BOW as you have with a gun... for starters....
And MIGHT be a known national competitor.... My fuggin azz. You're a bigtime bullshytter though and that's a fact. You can fool the fans but not the players junior. And don't lecture me about childish posts after sticking your big, fat, clueless schnozz into the Rav4 thread yesterday and immediately calling names. Dickhead. Oh yeah, and I might have been a former 3 time state champion in NRA registered 4 position smallbore too. No might about it, I was. Big deal. It isn't relevant in the least here.
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Campfire Ranger
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That's some really terrible logic. Explain yourself Einstein.
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Keep in mind I never said the x39 wasn't adequate for deer. Heck, I've found the .222 to be adequate. But equal to the .30-30 it is not.
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Your logic revolved around comparing two cartridges (coworker says it's [7.62x39] about like a .30-30), one of which you haven't used in the same method as required to make such a comparison with any degree of certainty or authority. Yet, you still made an emphatic and absolute statement to the contrary. You can't "KNOW" anything operating from a position of ignorance.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm the only person who I know who has a bolt action 7.62x39, a Ruger 77, and while it is reasonably accurate, it would be among that last rifles that I would pick to take on a serious deer hunt. Back when you could buy new Norinco SKS by the case for around $75 per unit, I bought a case of them and gave them to some of my FIL's farmer friends to keep as barn/combine/tractor guns. At that time, I thought that the cheap Chinese SKS would be the next high volume entry-level CF rifle, but as time has proven, I was wrong on that count.
Personally, I'd much rather have a Marlin 336 in my hands on a deer hunt than any rifle that I can think of chambered in 7.62x39.
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Campfire Kahuna
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if you think the 30-30 is SO MUCH superior, you have an issue you should resolve.
Now if you were saying the 300 mag over the X 39 I coudl see the difference...
right bullet, right shot placement, the x39 kills better than my 30-30 contender from all the shots I've seen...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I took a doe tonight with my x39 upper and the Federal Fusion load. Shot was slightly quartering away at 18 yards and entered her left side just off the point of her leg and exited the pocket between her body and her offside leg, then it entered her offside leg and broke it before exiting.
Internal damage was extensive. Heart was hit and had a 1.5" hole through it. Also damage to lungs. Blood trail was immediate and very, very heavy. She ran approx 30 yards.
The round and bullet preformed just like I thought it would...about like a .30-30.
Last edited by Petro; 11/21/15.
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Well I just got back from a deer hunt. Used a 7.62x39 fusion bullets and a ruger mini 30 tactical and a ruger No.1 in said caliber.
I can tell you we shot 4 deer. All shoulder shots. All ran. None dropped. Very very little blood
Recovered 2 of the 4.
I hate this round for deer
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How far and what angles were the shots? Recovered 2 of 4 bullets or deer?
Were the shots high on the body?
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I killed a nice 8 point with my Marlin 30-30 Saturday morning. 60 yard broadside shot through both shoulders. Through and through penetration as usual. Deer dropped like a lead balloon, bang, FLOP. 170 grain Federal power shok. The cheap stuff in the blue box.
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Took this one yesterday, with the 7.62x39 bolt rifle shown. 123 grain Federal SP. 85 yards, broadside, dropped in his tracks, full penetration and an excellent exit wound. ![[Linked Image]](http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy204/Forager/IMG_0010_zpsua9yzkob.jpg) Here are three other decent bucks taken with that same little rifle in the last couple seasons: ![[Linked Image]](http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy204/Forager/photo-54_zpsvevdw2bw.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy204/Forager/photo-61_zpst6iwltsz.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy204/Forager/photo-57_zpsg5jpga0d.jpg) I've taken 19 deer with the little rifle since I picked it up a few years back. All were one shot kills. None have gone further than 40 yards, and only three have gone anywhere at all. Every bullet has exited, at ranges from about 12' to over 125 yards. I haven't even started handloading any hunting ammo for it yet, just using either Remington or Federal factory SPs. They shoot very well, and kill very well. As stated before, the 7.62x39 works just fine for deer - if the shooter does his job. It's a very near ballistic twin of the .30-30, and performance on deer is similarly identical; it all comes down to placement and the shooter. I did get a chuckle out of someone questioning Jeff Rost's credentials on this thread, though. That's pure gold right there. About to start overeating for the day, then head back out again to see about killing more stuff with the 7.62x39 as the rifle is fast becoming a favorite (weighs next to nothing, carries well, recoil is basically non-existent, and it just kills stuff very, very dead).
Last edited by 4ager; 11/25/15.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Sure, why not. Like the man said, it's pretty much a .30/30. Plenty of rifle for most Eastern whitetail hunting.
I would prefer one with a .308 bore for convenience sake.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Campfire Ranger
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I used to handload 125 and 130 gr. pointed sp's to 2450-2500 fps in my old Savage 340 bolt action .30-30. I eventually quit using them on deer and went back to 150 and 170 grain bullets because the lighter ones didn't give me the through and through penetration I wanted on a consistent basis. Yet somehow, miraculously, 125 grain sp bullets going 100 fps or so slower out of the 7.62x39 will penetrate like the dickens. My fuggin' azz.
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Campfire Ranger
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I used to handload 125 and 130 gr. pointed sp's to 2450-2500 fps in my old Savage 340 bolt action .30-30. I eventually quit using them on deer and went back to 150 and 170 grain bullets because the lighter ones didn't give me the through and through penetration I wanted on a consistent basis. Yet somehow, miraculously, 125 grain sp bullets going 100 fps or so slower out of the 7.62x39 will penetrate like the dickens. My fuggin' azz. Sounds like you have a personal problem with your azz; either fuggin' it, or talking out of it. As for the 7.62x39, I've yet to have one of those bullets not fully penetrate and exit the deer I've shot with that round. The blood trails, on the three that have actually moved from where they were shot, were excellent. Oh, and those bullets you loaded were not the same in design as the ones in the x39; neither in construction or in velocity performance window. There'd be a few hints there, but I doubt you'll figure them out. Me? I'll keep right on killing stuff with the little 7.62x39, whether you believe it or not. Then again, I've actually hunted with folks on here that have seen me kill stuff with that same rifle and cartridge; so they must be FOS, too, eh? Happy Thanksgiving, all. Time to dive into the dinner prep, then head back out to the woods.
Last edited by 4ager; 11/25/15.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Take it to the jilted, irrational love of bitching and .30-30s thread.
Grow up you bitter ass of a old man.
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That's great. Thanks for sharing. Is that a CZ or something different?
Last edited by Petro; 11/26/15.
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Campfire Ranger
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I think that is a mini mark x.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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It's a daly mini mauser. (Mini mark x as CT says)
Same as my 222 rem, which also kills deer.
Maybe it's the maker and not the caliber?
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I couldn't tell. That's a cool gun.
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Campfire Ranger
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Take it to the jilted, irrational love of bitching and .30-30s thread.
Grow up you bitter ass of a old man. GFY you know nothing azzhat.
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I used to handload 125 and 130 gr. pointed sp's to 2450-2500 fps in my old Savage 340 bolt action .30-30. I eventually quit using them on deer and went back to 150 and 170 grain bullets because the lighter ones didn't give me the through and through penetration I wanted on a consistent basis. Yet somehow, miraculously, 125 grain sp bullets going 100 fps or so slower out of the 7.62x39 will penetrate like the dickens. My fuggin' azz. Sounds like you have a personal problem with your azz; either fuggin' it, or talking out of it. As for the 7.62x39, I've yet to have one of those bullets not fully penetrate and exit the deer I've shot with that round. The blood trails, on the three that have actually moved from where they were shot, were excellent. Oh, and those bullets you loaded were not the same in design as the ones in the x39; neither in construction or in velocity performance window. There'd be a few hints there, but I doubt you'll figure them out. I doubt like hell there are any inner belts, partitions or anything fancy as far as construction in those cheap, factory loaded bullets you've been shooting in your x39. The fact is, the bullets I was using in my .30-30 were most likely nearly identical in construction and you don't know any different. Hornady has always touted the 130 grain spire point as a dual purpose varmint/light big game bullet {there's a HINT for you azzhole}. Any jacketed bullet designed to expand at a measly 2300 fps is going to be fairly light jacketed and soft cored. Speed that same bullet up to 3000 + fps and it's instantly transformed into a rapidly expanding varmint bullet. The 130 gr. Hornady's I recovered from deer were picture perfect mushrooms and retained a good portion of their original weight. The fact is, you don't have a fuggin' clue what you're talking about or what I know or have used so you might better try impressing somebody else there jerkoff.
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Campfire Ranger
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Damn, son. I don't think I've ever run up on anyone who was so offended at a comparison.
I like the 30 WCF. I like it alot, but it isn't a sacred cow.
No need to get so worked up when someone else's experience doesn't agree with yours.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Yup...still not contributing anything worthwhile...
Why don't you actually use the round in question before your spew your irrational and bitter fallacies across the page? That too hard?
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Yup...still not contributing anything worthwhile...
Why don't you actually use the round in question before your spew your irrational and bitter fallacies across the page? That too hard? How would performance differ in any meaningful way if I shot 125 gr. sp's out of a 7.62x39 @ 23-2400 fps as opposed to shooting 125-130 grain bullets out of a .30-30 100 fps faster ? Maybe you aughtta STFU and listen.
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Campfire Ranger
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Damn, son. I don't think I've ever run up on anyone who was so offended at a comparison.
I like the 30 WCF. I like it alot, but it isn't a sacred cow.
No need to get so worked up when someone else's experience doesn't agree with yours. Given similar construction, it's asinine to think that a 125 grain .30 cal {or .311} bullet @ 2300 fps will penetrate as well as a 150 or 170 gr bullet at roughly the same velocity.
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Campfire Ranger
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Given the economic and social situation in this country, it's asinine to think that the American people voted Obama to a second term, but it happened.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Ranger
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The truth is, there is every probability that a 125 or so grain .311 bullet started at 2300 fps WON'T penetrate to the same depth as a 170 grain .308 launched at the same velocity as a 30 WCF.
But, if we estimate the width of a whitetail deer is say, 14 inches, and the Russian penetrates 14.5", while the 30-30 penetrates 20", what difference does it make? (With the caveat that the hunter shooting the Russian is willing to wait for a shot to the armpit.)
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Yup...still not contributing anything worthwhile...
Why don't you actually use the round in question before your spew your irrational and bitter fallacies across the page? That too hard? How would performance differ in any meaningful way if I shot 125 gr. sp's out of a 7.62x39 @ 23-2400 fps as opposed to shooting 125-130 grain bullets out of a .30-30 100 fps faster ? Maybe you aughtta STFU and listen. Let me get this straight...you made a bitter ass of yourself arguing there was a meaningful difference in the field between the .30-30 and 7.62x39, having never shot a x39 at a deer. You touted your "vast" number of deer kills as evidence of your knowledge and as a substitute for actual experience. Then you ridicule someone who is not only a highly respected rifleman, but has killed more deer with a bow than you have with a gun. You make no caveats or offer conditions to your argument, but go all in from a position of ignorance with an absolute statement regarding an intangible and unquantifiable subject. Then you have the audacity to make the statement above?
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You literally just made the same argument everyone else on the thread did.
That 100-150 fps makes not one bit of difference in the field.
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm no smarter than anyone else at the fire, just putting some different words on it.
The Russian is a viable cartridge. Its' user just has to understand the performance envelope he is working with. Much the same as a man who hunts with a flintlock rifle. Are they deadly? Hell yes. Not in the same way as a 12 gauge slug, but when properly applied, they kill things just as dead.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Wow. That escalated quickly !
I just started this thread for some info..... It's turned into something else.
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Try not to be such a dunce petro. Not many folks choose to shoot 125 grain bullets out of a .30-30 at deer, including me. There is a reason for that.
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Campfire Ranger
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You literally just made the same argument everyone else on the thread did.
That 100-150 fps makes not one bit of difference in the field.
Not when both are shooting 125's no. But the .30-30 can drive 150 and 160 grain bullets faster than the 7.62x39 drives 125's. It makes a diffence in penetration and sometimes that matters. If it doesn't, then I just don't get why so many here think they need TSX'S or some such super bullet to kill deer with a .223 when garden variety 55 gr. sp's will kill them just fine.
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Boy
Someone's getting lonely playing on the computer in their parents basement.
STFU!
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Campfire Outfitter
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I used to handload 125 and 130 gr. pointed sp's to 2450-2500 fps in my old Savage 340 bolt action .30-30. I eventually quit using them on deer and went back to 150 and 170 grain bullets because the lighter ones didn't give me the through and through penetration I wanted on a consistent basis. Yet somehow, miraculously, 125 grain sp bullets going 100 fps or so slower out of the 7.62x39 will penetrate like the dickens. My fuggin' azz. Sweetie, hate to break it to you, but you are dumb as [bleep]!
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Campfire Ranger
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I was probably killing deer when your momma was still wiping your azz. You should be taking notes.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I used to handload 125 and 130 gr. pointed sp's to 2450-2500 fps in my old Savage 340 bolt action .30-30. I eventually quit using them on deer and went back to 150 and 170 grain bullets because the lighter ones didn't give me the through and through penetration I wanted on a consistent basis. Yet somehow, miraculously, 125 grain sp bullets going 100 fps or so slower out of the 7.62x39 will penetrate like the dickens. My fuggin' azz. Sweetie, hate to break it to you, but you are dumb as [bleep]! And what, you're a fuggin genius ? BWAAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAaaaa !!! Wait, you're on that "Alaskan bush people" show ain't ya ? Is that you Birdie ?
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Campfire Outfitter
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I used to handload 125 and 130 gr. pointed sp's to 2450-2500 fps in my old Savage 340 bolt action .30-30. I eventually quit using them on deer and went back to 150 and 170 grain bullets because the lighter ones didn't give me the through and through penetration I wanted on a consistent basis. Yet somehow, miraculously, 125 grain sp bullets going 100 fps or so slower out of the 7.62x39 will penetrate like the dickens. My fuggin' azz. Sweetie, hate to break it to you, but you are dumb as [bleep]! And what, you're a fuggin genius ? BWAAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAaaaa !!! Wait, you're on that "Alaskan bush people" show ain't ya ? Is that you Birdie ? Since they ain't even from Alaska, I was under the impression that you were the chick on that show with the thick bush? Haha
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By your own admission the delta v between the .30-30 and x39 is inconsequential.
The same delta v exists at 150 grains. The velocity diff isn't much and isn't of any consequence.
With 170s, I don't know as I haven't loaded that heavy in the x39. I do shoot them in my .30-30 because I don't like the performance of the only 150s I've tried (Winchester Silvertip of 1980s vintage). The 170s stay together better for me, but they still act about the same as the 123s have for me in the x39. You don't need 170s in the x39 because the velocity is low enough with the 150s to be very easy on cup and core bullets.
In my experience the 150 fps bonus gives very little advantage as far as penetration goes, and if anything, the extra velocity usually results in greater expansion which is counter productive to penetration. It's all hairs we are splitting here.
I can't argue this anymore. It's pointless.
I hope you have a great thanksgiving.
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Campfire Ranger
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I was kinda underwhelmed by the 7.62x39 AK, so I bought a Ruger #1 in the caliber. Should prove interesting...
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Ranger
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I had a suspicion that you wouldn't be able to resist those. That ought to make a neat little pig popper.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Looking at getting an encore barrel in the 7.62x39.
308 bore??
What's the best barrel length?
What's the best twist?
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That would be fun. I remember meeting you and seeing your collection of #1s at ASC in Houston 3 or 4 years ago. A damn fine group of rifles you have.
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Yep, I recall that - I had a couple of them out that day. So far this year the #1 .270 has been out a few days. It smoked a jake turkey last weekend, so we had wild turkey for Thanksgiving dinner I'm increasingly of the opinion that where you don't have long shots, or big deer, a smaller cartridge, say .30-30 or smaller, is plenty, and spooks fewer deer in the area. This year I used an old .351 Winchester when I shot a cull buck on opening weekend. Maybe 10-15 seconds after I shot the buck, a doe walked out looking around, curious as to what the noise was. I'm not expecting any DRT shots like you get with a .270, with the 7.62, but I suspect it will do fine
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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The doe I shot last weekend left her running buddy wondering where she went so quickly. The aforementioned pal sat eating acorns until I made it down from the tree 18 yards away and gave her a standing ovation. Had I another antlerless tag or my bow, I'd of had twice the work to do...and the herd better off for it perhaps.
I do like the ease of carrying a shorter, lighter rifle when shots aren't going to be over throwing distance. At that range a premium is needed for anything of high speed, or enough bullet weight to reduce velocity and increase recoil.
I'm not exaggerating when I say this was the best blood trail I've ever followed. It started at the point of impact and was immediately saucer to plate sized in footprint.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yep, I recall that - I had a couple of them out that day. So far this year the #1 .270 has been out a few days. It smoked a jake turkey last weekend, so we had wild turkey for Thanksgiving dinner I'm increasingly of the opinion that where you don't have long shots, or big deer, a smaller cartridge, say .30-30 or smaller, is plenty, and spooks fewer deer in the area. This year I used an old .351 Winchester when I shot a cull buck on opening weekend. Maybe 10-15 seconds after I shot the buck, a doe walked out looking around, curious as to what the noise was. I'm not expecting any DRT shots like you get with a .270, with the 7.62, but I suspect it will do fine Quieter never hurts... and FWIW I am now toying wiht a suppressed.. Lord forgive me, 300/221 with subsonic 194 lehighs, so far have easily killed deer to about 175 yards. And most of the time the others don't run off, they might run with the hit deer, but they calm down right away... It takes a good performing bullet in the right place. It doesn't take horsepower if you are picky about the shots. None of the close to 10 suppressed deer I've shot in the ribcage has made it over 80 yards. 2 of them made it all of 20 or less.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Not to mention the few I've shot with.... gasp.. 32-20 and none of those made it more than 50 steps as best I can recall....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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I will probably tinker some with a .300 Blackout still this year. Maybe a .25-20, too. The Ruger 7.62x39 will require some time to study as I want to push the envelope a bit with it. Between the stout action and the 22" barrel it should beat the AK's performance level.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Now you're just showing off...
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Yeah, I chrony'd a 10 round string of the fusion load with an average velocity of 2305, and very low es.
I'd image going from a 16" to a 22" bbl would be beneficial to some extent. Is the ruger a .308 or .310 bore? A 125 Accubond would be the berries at 2400 +/-
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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125 ballistic tip is what the nephew shoots out of his X39 AR parts gun.
I've shot a few big pigs with it through the shields. I was impressed that it blew all the way through.
Evidently the slower speeds work fine with the BTs.
Of course I run varmint nosler bts 80 grain out of 243 at about 1600 fps and they work just like a normal bullet starting that slow. Kills deer really well too without typical BT blowing up chit all over the place.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Looking at getting an encore barrel in the 7.62x39.
308 bore??
What's the best barrel length?
What's the best twist? Anyone???
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Vast majority of my guns shoot BTs. I think they are the perfect deer bullet. There are other good ones but I love the BTs.
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Campfire Kahuna
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I don't own one, I would not buy anything but a 308 bore. Nephew has no issues with surplus creating pressure in his.
Length? I'd have to know what i was after...
Twist, always depends on what train of thought you follow, Keith or OConnor.
I"m of the thought that since i can shoot 52 bthps in my 223 with 6.5 twist, that fast twist is never really a negative... slow twist can be for sure. I hate oblong holes when I'm trying to work a load up...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Vast majority of my guns shoot BTs. I think they are the perfect deer bullet. There are other good ones but I love the BTs. I avoid the bombs like the plague generally speaking. Having used them early on and huge exit holes, I just don't care for the destruction when its not needed or called for. Just my take on it. Especially since Barnes came along.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You've heard the BT's have evolved, right?
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Maybe I'm just lucky but I have never had the explosive result some people have. I generally don't shoot shoulders and mainly aim for the pocket behind the front leg. Obviously the issue exists, but I've been fortunate to not have experienced it. At the velocities I shoot, generally speaking, it's not a problem.
Edited for copious usage of the word "issue".
Last edited by Petro; 11/30/15.
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I agree that if possible, get a .308 bore. Your bullet selection will be better.
Length? I'd not go for more than 20" as I don't think you'll gain much after that and whatever you do will be at the expense of a handier rifle.
Twist? Mines a 1:9.5" or 1:10".
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Launched from a 308 at 2850 or so I've found the current issue 150 Ballistic Tip to be an excellent deer bullet. I'm not hesitant to put one in or out through a shoulder depending on the quartering angle.
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Campfire Kahuna
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You've heard the BT's have evolved, right? Oh yeah, I'm well aware of that. they changed and are called TSX/TTSX. LOL.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Well I'm done with the federal fusion as well as the winchester pdx
Rounds.
Has anyone tried the federal powershok?
Can anyone reccomend a great factory loading ?
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Campfire Ranger
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Well I'm done with the federal fusion as well as the winchester pdx
Rounds.
Has anyone tried the federal powershok?
Can anyone reccomend a great factory loading ? The PowerShok and Remington SPs work fine. Those bucks I posted earlier all fell to those, as have the other deer I've taken with the 7.62x39.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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1680 looks like the best powder for it. Anyone else have other preferences?
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Ranger
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4198, 4227 and RL-7 should get a look. I've considered trying VN-120 and Lil'Gun as well.
I tried H322 and H335 with heavies but didn't get the speed I was hoping for. In the #1, given that you can lean on things pretty hard, the 174s should get a shake. I suspect you could get them to 2100 or so; 154s to 2250-2300; 123s up to 2500+.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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lean on it hard? Moi? 
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Ranger
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Didn't say you would, only that in the #1 one could...  You can get the 174s to better than 2000 in the little mini-Mauser, so besting that in the Ruger ought to be no problem. '335 won't do it, though, as you run out of case capacity first. 1680 or one of the other powders should get you the top speed with the heavier bullets, though. The 174 Hornady SPs and similar 154s would certainly get a look, were it me, with a No. 1 in the little Russian.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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The kick is that all the banter about the .30-30 being superior to the 7.62x39 assumes the factory listed (and incorrect) velocities for both rounds in hunting rifles. The .30-30 velocities of 2300 for the 150s and 2100 for the 170s are from listed 24" barrels. In actual 20" barrels from 336s and 94s, the velocities that I've gotten and have seen others get average around 2100 for the 150s (occasionally as high as 2200, but 2100-2150 is about the norm) and 2050 for the 170s (generally 2000-2050).
The little Russian can do those numbers quite easily handloaded with 150s or 174s in 20" barrels, but I digress.
The factory loads for the Russian list at 2350, and that's most often from 16" barrels. I've yet to see that number hit in a 16", but in a 20" 2400 or better is no great shakes with factory loads. Call it 2400 FSAG.
At 2100, the Hornady 150 grain RN (i.e., the Remington factory bullet) checks in with 1468 ft.lbs. At 100 yards, it's retaining, via the .186BC, 1690 fps and 951 ft.lbs.
At 2050, the Hornady 170 FP (i.e., the Remington factory bullet) checks in with 1587 ft.lbs, and due to the same BC as the RN 150, retains 1652 fps and 1030 ft.lbs at 100.
At 2400, the 123 grain Hornady SP (i.e., the Remington factory bullet) checks in with 1573 ft.lbs, and care of the .252 BC retains 2065 fps and 1165 ft.lbs.
At 2100, easily factory velocity on the 150/154 stuff you can find from Sellier & Beloit and Cabela's "Herters" steel case stuff, you get a bullet of equivalent weight to the .30-30 150 started at the same velocity (go figure what the energy will be), but with a BC of .271 vs. .186. At 100, that bullet is still going 1817 fps with 1100 ft.lbs.
Even if you give the .30-30 a few FPS more at the muzzle and take a few away from the Russian, the numbers are spitting distance of one another - as is the field performance.
When you get to handloading, and especially when you get into actions that can take someone standing on the throttle, then the conversation changes.
Last edited by 4ager; 12/02/15.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Anyone got corbon numbers for this round??
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Campfire Ranger
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No. Never fired any. In fact, never seen any in real life. I think their 150 SPs are discontinued and have been for some time. Given CorBon's tendency (like many other manufacturers) to inflate their ballistic claims a bit, I'd think their 150s would go more in the 2200-2250 range than 2300, at least out of shorter barrels. 20" tubes should get you the 2300, though. Their 125s should do a legit 2400, though.
Try the Hornady SST/Z-Max stuff, if you can find it. Or, the Remington/Federal SPs. I've had very good luck with the latter.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Late to the discussion but thought I'd add my experience for those future readers. My 11 year old daughter dropped her first caribou bull(300 pounds or so) at 175 yards. Single shot to the neck, using her cz527. Cartridges are handloaded using Sierra Prohunter 125gr .310 bullets and 28.5 gr of AA1680 (right about 2450 fps) and shoots sub MOA. Imperceptible recoil (and a considerable flame out of the barrel) in this great rifle and perfect for kids.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
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The kick is that all the banter about the .30-30 being superior to the 7.62x39 assumes the factory listed (and incorrect) velocities for both rounds in hunting rifles. The .30-30 velocities of 2300 for the 150s and 2100 for the 170s are from listed 24" barrels. In actual 20" barrels from 336s and 94s, the velocities that I've gotten and have seen others get average around 2100 for the 150s (occasionally as high as 2200, but 2100-2150 is about the norm) and 2050 for the 170s (generally 2000-2050).
The little Russian can do those numbers quite easily handloaded with 150s or 174s in 20" barrels, but I digress My brother called this afternoon and wanted to know if I wanted to go to the range. Because I had just read your ignorant post here I said sure, bring your chronograph. I have two types of factory .30-30's on hand. 150 grain Remington core-lokts and 170 grain Federal blue box. Since I needed to check zero on my 20" barreled Marlin 336 for the upcoming deer season anyway, that was the chosen test vessel. The 150 core-lokts averaged 2375 fps for 5 shots and the 170 Federals averaged 2204 fps for 5 shots. This with the chrony set up 12 feet in front of the muzzle and those numbers are not corrected back to the muzzle. I don't know where you've been getting your info on .30-30 factory ammo velocities but suspect you've been reading too much of Nathan Fosters drivel over on ballisticstudies.com and haven't actually chrono'd any yourself. Oh yeah, and one more thing. The factory listed muzzle velocities for 150 and 170 grain .30-30's are 2390 and 2200 fps respectively so your numbers are incorrect there too. The more you post on this subject the more clear it becomes that you're talking out your azz.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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B.S is like as-holes everyone has one .Everyone know these 7.62 x 39 and 30-30 don't kill
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
The absolute LAST thing I feel like doing right now is arguing the velocity of a bullet that can be passed by a kite, hot air balloon, or low flying bird on it's way to the target.
The deal with the 30-30 has always been that with the most popular 1-2 factory loadings that the 150s were only going about 50 fps faster than the 170s. Even though the 150s were advertised as 180-200fps faster. And yes, said numbers were/are quoted with longer test barrels. Argue this all you want, but it is true, and no big secret to anyone.
Handloaded, you can achieve said velocity gain with the 150s.
The end. More whiskey and football.....
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233 |
The absolute LAST thing I feel like doing right now is arguing the velocity of a bullet that can be passed by a kite, hot air balloon, or low flying bird on it's way to the target.
The deal with the 30-30 has always been that with the most popular 1-2 factory loadings that the 150s were only going about 50 fps faster than the 170s. Even though the 150s were advertised as 180-200fps faster. And yes, said numbers were/are quoted with longer test barrels. Argue this all you want, but it is true, and no big secret to anyone.
Handloaded, you can achieve said velocity gain with the 150s.
The end. More whiskey and football.....
No you big mouthed ignorant dypshyt, the long accepted and mamy times, many places published norm is that both 150's and 170's tend to run about 100 fps slower out of the common 20" barreled carbines than the published numbers which are for 24" barrels. Been that way as far back as I can remember and I've read one f*ckofalot on the .30-30 over the past 5 decades.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
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Why did I take your dumbass off ignore?
2100 and 2050 are regarded as the real world numbers. Of course, we all know you live in your own little world, now don't you?
I am watching football and drinking.
GFY....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
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Why did Intake your dumbass off ignore?
2100 and 2050 are regarded as the real world numbers. Of course, we all know you live in your own little world, now don't you?
I am watching football and drinking.
GFY.... Well shyt for brains the numbers I just wrote are the numbers I actually got today from the listed loads. I don't believe for a minute they were far off as I've gotten similar numbers in the past with my chrono. we also clocked some 130 grain factory core lokts from my brothers .270 over the same setup and got 2888 for a 5 shot average. Seems a bit on the slow side there but I don't see any reason we'd have gotten erroneously slow numbers there and erroneously fast just minutes before from my .30-30. Also, the numbers from the 170 federal .30-30's were very consistent for factory with a low of 2188 and a high of 2215. I have never seen numbers as low as you and 4ager are claiming as the norm from myself or anyone else. Never read numbers that low in any book or magazine articles where they tested factory .30-30 loads either. You and 4ager have both been reading Fosters page and taking his wacky drivel as gospel.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No clue who the f'k Fosters is. I do know what the chronograph reads, though.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
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The kick is that all the banter about the .30-30 being superior to the 7.62x39 assumes the factory listed (and incorrect) velocities for both rounds in hunting rifles. The .30-30 velocities of 2300 for the 150s and 2100 for the 170s are from listed 24" barrels. In actual 20" barrels from 336s and 94s, the velocities that I've gotten and have seen others get average around 2100 for the 150s (occasionally as high as 2200, but 2100-2150 is about the norm) and 2050 for the 170s (generally 2000-2050).
The little Russian can do those numbers quite easily handloaded with 150s or 174s in 20" barrels, but I digress My brother called this afternoon and wanted to know if I wanted to go to the range. Because I had just read your ignorant post here I said sure, bring your chronograph. I have two types of factory .30-30's on hand. 150 grain Remington core-lokts and 170 grain Federal blue box. Since I needed to check zero on my 20" barreled Marlin 336 for the upcoming deer season anyway, that was the chosen test vessel. The 150 core-lokts averaged 2375 fps for 5 shots and the 170 Federals averaged 2204 fps for 5 shots. This with the chrony set up 12 feet in front of the muzzle and those numbers are not corrected back to the muzzle. I don't know where you've been getting your info on .30-30 factory ammo velocities but suspect you've been reading too much of Nathan Fosters drivel over on ballisticstudies.com and haven't actually chrono'd any yourself. Oh yeah, and one more thing. The factory listed muzzle velocities for 150 and 170 grain .30-30's are 2390 and 2200 fps respectively so your numbers are incorrect there too. The more you post on this subject the more clear it becomes that you're talking out your azz. Got MV same way you got yours; chrono set up and factory ammo shot over it. As for "the more I post" bit, that Post of mine you're quoting is nearly a year old and goes back the last conversation you and I had on this subject.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No clue who the f'k Fosters is. I do know what the chronograph reads, though. Yeah, me too. But since you obviously can't read what the factory ballistics charts say, why should I believe you ?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The kick is that all the banter about the .30-30 being superior to the 7.62x39 assumes the factory listed (and incorrect) velocities for both rounds in hunting rifles. The .30-30 velocities of 2300 for the 150s and 2100 for the 170s are from listed 24" barrels. In actual 20" barrels from 336s and 94s, the velocities that I've gotten and have seen others get average around 2100 for the 150s (occasionally as high as 2200, but 2100-2150 is about the norm) and 2050 for the 170s (generally 2000-2050).
The little Russian can do those numbers quite easily handloaded with 150s or 174s in 20" barrels, but I digress My brother called this afternoon and wanted to know if I wanted to go to the range. Because I had just read your ignorant post here I said sure, bring your chronograph. I have two types of factory .30-30's on hand. 150 grain Remington core-lokts and 170 grain Federal blue box. Since I needed to check zero on my 20" barreled Marlin 336 for the upcoming deer season anyway, that was the chosen test vessel. The 150 core-lokts averaged 2375 fps for 5 shots and the 170 Federals averaged 2204 fps for 5 shots. This with the chrony set up 12 feet in front of the muzzle and those numbers are not corrected back to the muzzle. I don't know where you've been getting your info on .30-30 factory ammo velocities but suspect you've been reading too much of Nathan Fosters drivel over on ballisticstudies.com and haven't actually chrono'd any yourself. Oh yeah, and one more thing. The factory listed muzzle velocities for 150 and 170 grain .30-30's are 2390 and 2200 fps respectively so your numbers are incorrect there too. The more you post on this subject the more clear it becomes that you're talking out your azz. Got MV same way you got yours; chrono set up and factory ammo shot over it. As for "the more I post" bit, that Post of mine you're quoting is nearly a year old and goes back the last conversation you and I had on this subject. Yeah, and you're still wrong.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Last 3 shot group through the chrono with my standard 336 and 150 grain Remington Hog Hammer Ammo(Barnes TSX bullet) yielded an average of 2400fps.
Those who must raise their voice to get their point across are generally not intelligent enough to do so in any other way.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The kick is that all the banter about the .30-30 being superior to the 7.62x39 assumes the factory listed (and incorrect) velocities for both rounds in hunting rifles. The .30-30 velocities of 2300 for the 150s and 2100 for the 170s are from listed 24" barrels. In actual 20" barrels from 336s and 94s, the velocities that I've gotten and have seen others get average around 2100 for the 150s (occasionally as high as 2200, but 2100-2150 is about the norm) and 2050 for the 170s (generally 2000-2050).
The little Russian can do those numbers quite easily handloaded with 150s or 174s in 20" barrels, but I digress My brother called this afternoon and wanted to know if I wanted to go to the range. Because I had just read your ignorant post here I said sure, bring your chronograph. I have two types of factory .30-30's on hand. 150 grain Remington core-lokts and 170 grain Federal blue box. Since I needed to check zero on my 20" barreled Marlin 336 for the upcoming deer season anyway, that was the chosen test vessel. The 150 core-lokts averaged 2375 fps for 5 shots and the 170 Federals averaged 2204 fps for 5 shots. This with the chrony set up 12 feet in front of the muzzle and those numbers are not corrected back to the muzzle. I don't know where you've been getting your info on .30-30 factory ammo velocities but suspect you've been reading too much of Nathan Fosters drivel over on ballisticstudies.com and haven't actually chrono'd any yourself. Oh yeah, and one more thing. The factory listed muzzle velocities for 150 and 170 grain .30-30's are 2390 and 2200 fps respectively so your numbers are incorrect there too. The more you post on this subject the more clear it becomes that you're talking out your azz. Got MV same way you got yours; chrono set up and factory ammo shot over it. As for "the more I post" bit, that Post of mine you're quoting is nearly a year old and goes back the last conversation you and I had on this subject. Yeah, and you're still wrong. No, I reported the velocities recorded, and that goes for both rounds in question. For some reason - after a year - you got a hair up your ass about this topic again. Only you know why.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233 |
The kick is that all the banter about the .30-30 being superior to the 7.62x39 assumes the factory listed (and incorrect) velocities for both rounds in hunting rifles. The .30-30 velocities of 2300 for the 150s and 2100 for the 170s are from listed 24" barrels. In actual 20" barrels from 336s and 94s, the velocities that I've gotten and have seen others get average around 2100 for the 150s (occasionally as high as 2200, but 2100-2150 is about the norm) and 2050 for the 170s (generally 2000-2050).
The little Russian can do those numbers quite easily handloaded with 150s or 174s in 20" barrels, but I digress My brother called this afternoon and wanted to know if I wanted to go to the range. Because I had just read your ignorant post here I said sure, bring your chronograph. I have two types of factory .30-30's on hand. 150 grain Remington core-lokts and 170 grain Federal blue box. Since I needed to check zero on my 20" barreled Marlin 336 for the upcoming deer season anyway, that was the chosen test vessel. The 150 core-lokts averaged 2375 fps for 5 shots and the 170 Federals averaged 2204 fps for 5 shots. This with the chrony set up 12 feet in front of the muzzle and those numbers are not corrected back to the muzzle. I don't know where you've been getting your info on .30-30 factory ammo velocities but suspect you've been reading too much of Nathan Fosters drivel over on ballisticstudies.com and haven't actually chrono'd any yourself. Oh yeah, and one more thing. The factory listed muzzle velocities for 150 and 170 grain .30-30's are 2390 and 2200 fps respectively so your numbers are incorrect there too. The more you post on this subject the more clear it becomes that you're talking out your azz. Got MV same way you got yours; chrono set up and factory ammo shot over it. As for "the more I post" bit, that Post of mine you're quoting is nearly a year old and goes back the last conversation you and I had on this subject. Yeah, and you're still wrong. No, I reported the velocities recorded, and that goes for both rounds in question. For some reason - after a year - you got a hair up your ass about this topic again. Only you know why. Your chrono setup is bad or the damn thing is just off. Someone brought this post back to the top. Didn't pay attention to who. Read your post that I quoted for the first time today, It was as full of incorrect information then as it is now.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
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The kick is that all the banter about the .30-30 being superior to the 7.62x39 assumes the factory listed (and incorrect) velocities for both rounds in hunting rifles. The .30-30 velocities of 2300 for the 150s and 2100 for the 170s are from listed 24" barrels. In actual 20" barrels from 336s and 94s, the velocities that I've gotten and have seen others get average around 2100 for the 150s (occasionally as high as 2200, but 2100-2150 is about the norm) and 2050 for the 170s (generally 2000-2050).
The little Russian can do those numbers quite easily handloaded with 150s or 174s in 20" barrels, but I digress My brother called this afternoon and wanted to know if I wanted to go to the range. Because I had just read your ignorant post here I said sure, bring your chronograph. I have two types of factory .30-30's on hand. 150 grain Remington core-lokts and 170 grain Federal blue box. Since I needed to check zero on my 20" barreled Marlin 336 for the upcoming deer season anyway, that was the chosen test vessel. The 150 core-lokts averaged 2375 fps for 5 shots and the 170 Federals averaged 2204 fps for 5 shots. This with the chrony set up 12 feet in front of the muzzle and those numbers are not corrected back to the muzzle. I don't know where you've been getting your info on .30-30 factory ammo velocities but suspect you've been reading too much of Nathan Fosters drivel over on ballisticstudies.com and haven't actually chrono'd any yourself. Oh yeah, and one more thing. The factory listed muzzle velocities for 150 and 170 grain .30-30's are 2390 and 2200 fps respectively so your numbers are incorrect there too. The more you post on this subject the more clear it becomes that you're talking out your azz. [/quote Got MV same way you got yours; chrono set up and factory ammo shot over it. As for "the more I post" bit, that Post of mine you're quoting is nearly a year old and goes back the last conversation you and I had on this subject. Yeah, and you're still wrong. No, I reported the velocities recorded, and that goes for both rounds in question. For some reason - after a year - you got a hair up your ass about this topic again. Only you know why. Your chrono setup is bad or the damn thing is just off. Someone brought this post back to the top. Didn't pay attention to who. Read your post that I quoted for the first time today, It was as full of incorrect information then as it is now. Why you have such a hard on to prove the .30-30 is so much better than the 7.62x39 (which it is not; both are deer killing SOBs), is baffling. You act like someone insulted your dog. I use both; I hunt both; I chrono'd both over the same chronograph (so if one set of measurements is off, the others would be off the same way). I reported that. You act like I've hair-lipped the friggin' Pope.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233 |
Last 3 shot group through the chrono with my standard 336 and 150 grain Remington Hog Hammer Ammo(Barnes TSX bullet) yielded an average of 2400fps. Hmmmm, imagine that.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Never said the .30-30 is "so much better" than the x39. I said the x39 is not the equal of the .30-30 and it is not.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 |
Moderator please move this thread to the optics forum.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
A guy I work with uses one in a CZ 527 for deer. He's killed a bunch with it and says it works well. He claims it's about like a .30-30 but I KNOW it's not. How ? Because I've killed a shytton more deer with a .30-30 over the past 40 years than he has with the 7.62 and have recovered FAR fewer bullets from deer carcasses than he has. .30-30 equivalent my azz. Define "shytton", please, as upstate NY with said bag limits does not a "shytton" create. Is the 7.62 the equivalent of the .30-30? No. In some ways it's inferior and in others superior, depending entirely upon platform each are in. Discount the SKS or AK variant as hunting rifles off the start, though, as accuracy (while possible) is an unlikely happenstance. A .30-30 in a tubular lever action (most common) restricted to flat-nose bullets (not really, but stay with me) fires a bullet with more mass, but the velocity bleeds off fast. Per the OPs question, past 100 yards the 123/125 spitzer of the 7.62x39 is packing as much or more power and retaining it better than the .30-30 FN. Inside 100, the .30-30 delivers more to the target; outside of that, the edge starts going to the 7.62x39 123/125 grain slug. If your 7.62x39 guns the 154 SPs well, then it is even out the gate and stays at least even all the way out. Amazing how folks constantly forget that there are heavier bullets in the little Russian available. Now, if you put the .30-30 in a single-shot or bolt action, then there is no replacement for displacement and the bigger engine room of the Winchester round gives you more gas onto which you can mash the pedal. Putting a ballistically non-handicapped bullet on top just frosts that cake. The little Russian round gunning the factor Remington or Federal SPs is a deer killer; giving up ground to the .30-30 inside of 100, but overtaking it outside the same. The Hornady SSTs should be at least as good (I'll be trying them this year). The 154s, if your rifle shoots them, are as equal to the .30-30 as you're likely to find ballistically. BT/DT, many times over with each. BTT.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Well at least you have a few deer under your belt.
Yes, paper says one thing.
Your problem is you have not shot a fair amount with the 30-30 and the x39 to compare each. I have. Maybe on NY deer it could matter somehow.
On our deer, granted they rarely hit 200 and 150 on the hoof is pretty much about average for a buck, until he gets to 6.5 or so of age when he starts heading to 175 plus, there isn't a deer I have taken with the 30-30 that the x 39 cant' have done the same.
But you have your thoughts and I have mine.
I've also seen a LOT of pigs shot with the X 39. and very few with the 30-30, but the x39 has never failed... and on some fairly large pigs over the 250 mark.
Then again when you stick an X type bullet in a gun you have made it larger than it is.
this is about like arguing 308/30-06...when it comes to deer, take your pick, they both kill and are both more than enough. Hmmm
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Whole lot of "near ballistic twin" and "kills like"; good amount of actual ballistics on the 7.62; plenty of discussions on actual bullet use and acknowledgement that bullet and handload vs factory makes a huge difference.
The only person talking in absolutes is in NY.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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When fielding questions regarding deer rifles, I frequently got the one: ". . . my BIL says I should by an SKS, 'cause it shoots gooder than my 30-30 and the ammo is cheaper."
Case capacity wins every time in any discussion of the theoretical limits of two cartridges. Isn't there about a 25% advantage in favor of a 30-30? I'd say that pretty well says it all.
Yes, a souped-up 7.62 X39 fired from a nice bolt gun will do about the same job on a deer as a factory 30-30 up to a point, but having spent a good part of my life around KY hillbillies that spent the better part of their lives trying to make their 30-30's work like aught-sixes, I'd give the edge to the 30 WCF.
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Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,081 |
The 7.62x39 is superior to the 30-30!
My boy has taken 5 deer with his mini30 and federal ammo!
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Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
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Posts: 2,081 |
Also took two deer with dads ruger no.1 in 7.62x39!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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When fielding questions regarding deer rifles, I frequently got the one: ". . . my BIL says I should by an SKS, 'cause it shoots gooder than my 30-30 and the ammo is cheaper."
Case capacity wins every time in any discussion of the theoretical limits of two cartridges. Isn't there about a 25% advantage in favor of a 30-30? I'd say that pretty well says it all.
Yes, a souped-up 7.62 X39 fired from a nice bolt gun will do about the same job on a deer as a factory 30-30 up to a point, but having spent a good part of my life around KY hillbillies that spent the better part of their lives trying to make their 30-30's work like aught-sixes, I'd give the edge to the 30 WCF.
Yep, and if you want to soup up the 30-30 with Paco kellys 40,000 cup handloads {same pressure the 444 Marlin is loaded to in the 336 action} it really stomps the 7.62x39.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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When fielding questions regarding deer rifles, I frequently got the one: ". . . my BIL says I should by an SKS, 'cause it shoots gooder than my 30-30 and the ammo is cheaper."
Case capacity wins every time in any discussion of the theoretical limits of two cartridges. Isn't there about a 25% advantage in favor of a 30-30? I'd say that pretty well says it all.
Yes, a souped-up 7.62 X39 fired from a nice bolt gun will do about the same job on a deer as a factory 30-30 up to a point, but having spent a good part of my life around KY hillbillies that spent the better part of their lives trying to make their 30-30's work like aught-sixes, I'd give the edge to the 30 WCF.
I'll agree with you on the case capacity. The .30-30 will definitely be able to sling a heavier bullet at the same speed with lower pressure, or faster at the same pressure, assuming optimal powder choices. It seems with the lighter bullets, though, that a case capacity advantage does not manifest itself so readily. I've run into this with comparisons of the .308/.30-06, and the .300 WinMag/.300 WeatherbyMag. In both instances, the lighter-bullet performance gap was less, but when a certain weight was reached, the larger case began to assert itself. RE: .30-30 vs 7.62X39. Performance level is fairly close if you don't get too bug-eyed about numbers. As previously stated, both are deer-killing SOBs. One advantage the X39 enjoys is the spitzer bullets, it starts out with less but keeps what it has better. The .30-30 can chunk a heavier bullet at a usable velocity, so I'd feel better about using it on bigger game, within that bullet's working velocity window. Loaded to similar pressure and similar bullets, I'd expect the difference to be much like that of the .30-06/.308 Win., that being as the bullet got heavier, the larger-capacity case would begin to show an advantage. Either are "Deer killing SOBs".
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Campfire Outfitter
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Yep, and if you want to soup up the 30-30 with Paco kellys 40,000 cup handloads {same pressure the 444 Marlin is loaded to in the 336 action} it really stomps the 7.62x39. I've tried something like that with a .30-30 and a .45-70. With the .30-30, I wondered how long the brass would last. With the .45-70, I wondered how long I would last..... Personally, I don't like to run .30-30 loads any hotter than 35.5 to 38.5 Kpsi, depending on Standard Deviation. The wider the SD, the lower my Max velocity will be.
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Campfire Ranger
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I don't run my .30-30's hot either. No need really. These days I mostly just run factory loads. The 170 grain blue box Federals I was shooting yesterday were grouping just about MOA out of my 336 and they perform very well on deer. Just pointing out that if you want to push a .30-30 you can drive the 130 gr. Speer flat point to 2720 fps with 38.5 grs. of H322. Paco's data also shows the 125 gr. Sierra FNHP going 2975 fps with 38 grs. of H335 @ 39,600 CUP. A Marlin 336 .30-30 will usually let you know it's limits through sticky extraction long before dangerous pressures are reached.
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Campfire Tracker
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So DR.Death,
Apparently a 7.62x39 has been used successfully on deer past 100yds,
even though some folks prefer the 30-30 and are offended by any comparison of the two.
Good to know.
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them.
You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend."
Isak Dinesen
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Campfire Ranger
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So DR.Death,
Apparently a 7.62x39 has been used successfully on deer past 100yds,
even though some folks prefer the 30-30 and are offended by any comparison of the two.
Good to know. Best I can remember I've killed 7 deer beyond 200 yards with a .30-30. I'm not offended by the comparison. Just get tired of folks claiming it's fully the equal of the .30-30 when it isn't.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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So DR.Death,
Apparently a 7.62x39 has been used successfully on deer past 100yds,
even though some folks prefer the 30-30 and are offended by any comparison of the two.
Good to know. Best I can remember I've killed 7 deer beyond 200 yards with a .30-30. I'm not offended by the comparison. Just get tired of folks claiming it's fully the equal of the .30-30 when it isn't. So what,a dead deer is a dead deer no matter what it was killed with and that's all that matters.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Outfitter
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I tried the Speer 130s, but they just didn't group well enough to suit me. I'm talking 5+ inch groups, but it would have been interesting to see how the increased speed did.
I was going to use them in a load for my Daughter, anticipating she would be sensitive to recoil, but turns out she handles that pretty well. She is comfortable with a .30-06 or .308 and 165 grain bullets, so the .30-30's recoil is not a concern.
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Campfire Ranger
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So DR.Death,
Apparently a 7.62x39 has been used successfully on deer past 100yds,
even though some folks prefer the 30-30 and are offended by any comparison of the two.
Good to know. Best I can remember I've killed 7 deer beyond 200 yards with a .30-30. I'm not offended by the comparison. Just get tired of folks claiming it's fully the equal of the .30-30 when it isn't. So what,a dead deer is a dead deer no matter what it was killed with and that's all that matters. Well then by your logic the .22 mag. is as good for deer as the .30-30 or 7.62 x 39. After all, I've killed a bunch with the .22 mag. and they all got dead pretty damn quick.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Use a .22 mag then. Bullet placement beats what is on the headstamp every time.
Last edited by elkhunternm; 11/06/16.
Life Member SCI
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Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Use a .22 mag then. Bullet placement beats what is on the headstamp every time. A friggin farmer who hunts rabbits with a 460 Weatherby is the last person I'd take advice from on cartridge selection. No, the .22 mag is not as good of a deer cartridge as the .30-30.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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So,I hunt rabbits with a .460 Wby,what's the problem with that? Did not realize I was supposed to use only cartridges adequate for rabbits. Next time I go rabbit hunting I'll shoot you a PM and get your okey-dokey on the cartridge I want to use before I go.
Last edited by elkhunternm; 11/06/16.
Life Member SCI
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Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So,I hunt rabbits with a .460 Wby,what's the problem with that? Did not realize I was supposed to use only cartridges adequate for rabbits. Next time I go rabbit hunting I'll shoot you a PM and get your okey-dokey on the cartridge I want to use before I go. Good idea. You obviously need the help.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Moderator please move this thread to the Humor, Jokes, and Riddles forum.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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So,I hunt rabbits with a .460 Wby,what's the problem with that? Did not realize I was supposed to use only cartridges adequate for rabbits. Next time I go rabbit hunting I'll shoot you a PM and get your okey-dokey on the cartridge I want to use before I go. Good idea. You obviously need the help. Reckon so,I'll ignore your choice and take what I want anyway.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Moderator please move this thread to the Humor, Jokes, and Riddles forum. Now it can be moved to the .223AI thread. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/elkhunterinnm/sunday-is-for-the-triple-b-beers-babes-and-burgers-photos-29.gif)
Life Member SCI
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Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So,I hunt rabbits with a .460 Wby,what's the problem with that? Did not realize I was supposed to use only cartridges adequate for rabbits. Next time I go rabbit hunting I'll shoot you a PM and get your okey-dokey on the cartridge I want to use before I go. Good idea. You obviously need the help. Reckon so,I'll ignore your choice and take what I want anyway. Not at all surprising. Most folks on here prefer to remain ignorant and arrogant.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Or the biggest dumbazz.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Outfitter
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Half dozen knowledgeable people and one blowhard, got it.
Sean
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Yup,you learn quickly,Grasshopper.
Life Member SCI
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Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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what I've learned from this thread
* as usual there isn't much discernable, practical difference between similar cartridges.
* arguing with Blackheart makes as much sense as trying to scoop up liquid poop with a pitchfork, except the poop has more substantive value
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Ranger
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Half dozen knowledgeable people and one blowhard, got it. The "half dozen knowledgeable" is a f*ckin joke. The "blowhard" here is the only one involved who actually earns a living in the gun business and has for years. Of course, as usual, all the highly educated campfire amateurs actually know more than anybody else possibly could. What a pitiful bunch of ignorant slobs.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Which one of you works in the gun business?
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Half dozen knowledgeable people and one blowhard, got it. The "half dozen knowledgeable" is a f*ckin joke. The "blowhard" here is the only one involved who actually earns a living in the gun business and has for years. Of course, as usual, all the highly educated campfire amateurs actually know more than anybody else possibly could. What a pitiful bunch of ignorant slobs. earning earnings living in the gun business does not an expert make. that you have lived as long as you have and haven't realized you're a complete douchebag is absolutely amazing. there are folks on this thread who have a collective ass load of shooting and hunting experiences, not only on this continent but others as well. and have posted the proof to back it up...you have posted nothing but your own tales, with no way to verify.. yet everyone I supposed grant you a fugg in attaboy.. you constantly remind me of a drunk who beats his wife and children because he tripped and cut his head open on the curb
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Regular
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OP
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So DR.Death,
Apparently a 7.62x39 has been used successfully on deer past 100yds,
even though some folks prefer the 30-30 and are offended by any comparison of the two.
Good to know.  !!!....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Which one of you works in the gun business? I do azzhole. 8 years full time gunmithing. When the rest of you goobers have done that, plus hunted with, handloaded for and killed 75 deer with the .30-30 let me know.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Which one of you works in the gun business? I do azzhole. 8 years full time gunmithing. When the rest of you goobers have done that, plus hunted with, handloaded for and killed 75 deer with the .30-30 let me know. rost495, easily and then some. Just one, for example. Out of curiosity, how many have you killed with the 7.62x39?
Last edited by 4ager; 11/06/16.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Is this some of your work? ![[Linked Image]](http://a68.tinypic.com/29ylb12.jpg)
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Moderator please move this thread to the Humor, Jokes, and Riddles forum. Now it can be moved to the .223AI thread. I feel the need to way, way overpenetrate...
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Outfitter
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All that experience and you come off as smart as someone arguing over which is worse, eating a cat turd or dog turd?
Last edited by calikooknic; 11/06/16.
Sean
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Which one of you works in the gun business? I do azzhole. 8 years full time gunmithing. When the rest of you goobers have done that, plus hunted with, handloaded for and killed 75 deer with the .30-30 let me know. Not a .30/30..... ![[Linked Image]](http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/elkhunterinnm/IMG_0848.jpg) But a .300 Wby and 180 gr NP. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/elkhunterinnm/IMG_0850.jpg) Also a 7x57 and a 160 gr SGK from last year. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/elkhunterinnm/IMG_0771.jpg) Please post a pic of one you killed.
Life Member SCI
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Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Great pictures buddy! Looks like you and I have the same 7x57, too.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Thanks Chl and as far as the same 7x57...great minds. 
Life Member SCI
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Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Thanks Chl and as far as the same 7x57...great minds. Yep!
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Half dozen knowledgeable people and one blowhard, got it. The "half dozen knowledgeable" is a f*ckin joke. The "blowhard" here is the only one involved who actually earns a living in the gun business and has for years. Of course, as usual, all the highly educated campfire amateurs actually know more than anybody else possibly could. What a pitiful bunch of ignorant slobs. Which one of you works in the gun business? I do azzhole. 8 years full time gunmithing. When the rest of you goobers have done that, plus hunted with, handloaded for and killed 75 deer with the .30-30 let me know. rost495, easily and then some. Just one, for example. Out of curiosity, how many have you killed with the 7.62x39? Okay, this part is just baffling. You're a custom gunsmith, for eight years. Great. How, exactly, that lends itself to field testing of ballistics of various rounds, though, is not clear. Are you saying that a gunsmith for a little less than a decade knows more that one of the top national competitive shooters who takes dozens of deer per year (that's being conservative) and no counting how many hogs managing properties in TX? Would it make as much sense to say that a gunsmith would somehow know more about the terminal performance of various cartridges and loads than say someone like Steve Timm (used to be a member) who was a jeweler by trade and killed more stuff than most would ever believe possible? Or, taking it to archery, that a custom builder or customizer of bows with their own shop would know more about the terminal performance of broadheads than Dr. Ashby because Ashby is a physician by trade and the other guy is "in the business"? Of course not. That's no insult on your smithing abilities at all; they are simply a non-sequitur unless they are directly involved in the field testing and performance of various cartridges and loads. The other baffling part is that you can, and have, interacted here on a multitude of subjects without being a complete jackass. Why this particular thread has you running jackass +P+ levels is a head scratcher.
Last edited by 4ager; 11/06/16.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Which one of you works in the gun business? I do azzhole. 8 years full time gunmithing. When the rest of you goobers have done that, plus hunted with, handloaded for and killed 75 deer with the .30-30 let me know. rost495, easily and then some. Just one, for example. Out of curiosity, how many have you killed with the 7.62x39? Rost has never impressed me much at all frankly. He likes to brag about killing deer at exteme distances sure but no good hunter needs to do that. Particularly someplace like Texas where deer are thick and easy to kill in numbers. If he's your hero for some reason, so be it. BTW you've mentioned the "limited" amount of tags available in NY a couple of times so lets clear some of that up. I have 5 tags for this season right now. A gun season buck tag, two DMP doe tags, which can be used in gun, bow, crossbow or muzzleloader season, an either sex bow/ muzzleloader tag and an antlerless only bow/muzzleloader tag. This is normal and can be done every year. Beyond that there are special management areas in certain DMU'S where you can get unlimited doe tags. There is one 15 minutes from where I work and I have participated in the past. A friend of mine killed 12 does last year in one of those areas plus 2 bucks on his regular tags for a total of 14 all legally harvested. I myself lost count many years ago but I figure I've killed at least 200 and that's being conservative. In short, I am no newbie to killing deer or examining the terminal effects of various bullets/calibers. As stated previously, I have killed nearly 80 deer with a .30-30 , several of those with handloads using 125 and 130 gr. bullets which virtually duplicated the standard factory ballistics of the 7.62 x 39. Yes, those loads killed deer, no they were not as good as a 170 grain bullet at 2200fps due to reduced penetration.
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Campfire Tracker
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When fielding questions regarding deer rifles, I frequently got the one: ". . . my BIL says I should by an SKS, 'cause it shoots gooder than my 30-30 and the ammo is cheaper."
Case capacity wins every time in any discussion of the theoretical limits of two cartridges. Isn't there about a 25% advantage in favor of a 30-30? I'd say that pretty well says it all.
Yes, a souped-up 7.62 X39 fired from a nice bolt gun will do about the same job on a deer as a factory 30-30 up to a point, but having spent a good part of my life around KY hillbillies that spent the better part of their lives trying to make their 30-30's work like aught-sixes, I'd give the edge to the 30 WCF.
Yep, and if you want to soup up the 30-30 with Paco kellys 40,000 cup handloads {same pressure the 444 Marlin is loaded to in the 336 action} it really stomps the 7.62x39. And what deer bullet does Paco Kelly recommend above all others for the .30-30? The Speer 130. It has radically better SD than a 125...
"There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men." - Robert Heinlein
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Campfire Ranger
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Which one of you works in the gun business? I do azzhole. 8 years full time gunmithing. When the rest of you goobers have done that, plus hunted with, handloaded for and killed 75 deer with the .30-30 let me know. rost495, easily and then some. Just one, for example. Out of curiosity, how many have you killed with the 7.62x39? Rost has never impressed me much at all frankly. He likes to brag about killing deer at exteme distances sure but no good hunter needs to do that. Particularly someplace like Texas where deer are thick and easy to kill in numbers. If he's your hero for some reason, so be it. BTW you've mentioned the "limited" amount of tags available in NY a couple of times so lets clear some of that up. I have 5 tags for this season right now. A gun season buck tag, two DMP doe tags, which can be used in gun, bow, crossbow or muzzleloader season, an either sex bow/ muzzleloader tag and an antlerless only bow/muzzleloader tag. This is normal and can be done every year. Beyond that there are special management areas in certain DMU'S where you can get unlimited doe tags. There is one 15 minutes from where I work and I have participated in the past. A friend of mine killed 12 does last year in one of those areas plus 2 bucks on his regular tags for a total of 14 all legally harvested. I myself lost count many years ago but I figure I've killed at least 200 and that's being conservative. In short, I am no newbie to killing deer or examining the terminal effects of various bullets/calibers. As stated previously, I have killed nearly 80 deer with a .30-30 , several of those with handloads using 125 and 130 gr. bullets which virtually duplicated the standard factory ballistics of the 7.62 x 39. Yes, those loads killed deer, no they were not as good as a 170 grain bullet at 2200fps due to reduced penetration. your last sentence sort of underscores why so.many think you're fugg in retarded if the 170s killed deer, and the 125s killed deer. then you can't logically state that the 125s were not as good as the 170s. unless you have a scientific protocol that demands x amount of penetration in order for a certain round to be adequate. however, seeing that the point of hunting deer is to kill them. then dead is dead...regardless of the amount of penetration
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Ranger
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The 30 WCF is a great cartridge, the 7.62x39mm is good as well, but my pick is the 300 Blackout. I predict it will be the end of the 30-30.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Ranger
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The 30 WCF is a great cartridge, the 7.62x39mm is good as well, but my pick is the 300 Blackout. I predict it will be the end of the 30-30.
The .30-30 will be around as long as Grumman aluminum canoes, .45ACPs, and cockroaches.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Which one of you works in the gun business? I do azzhole. 8 years full time gunmithing. When the rest of you goobers have done that, plus hunted with, handloaded for and killed 75 deer with the .30-30 let me know. rost495, easily and then some. Just one, for example. Out of curiosity, how many have you killed with the 7.62x39? Rost has never impressed me much at all frankly. He likes to brag about killing deer at exteme distances sure but no good hunter needs to do that. Particularly someplace like Texas where deer are thick and easy to kill in numbers. If he's your hero for some reason, so be it. BTW you've mentioned the "limited" amount of tags available in NY a couple of times so lets clear some of that up. I have 5 tags for this season right now. A gun season buck tag, two DMP doe tags, which can be used in gun, bow, crossbow or muzzleloader season, an either sex bow/ muzzleloader tag and an antlerless only bow/muzzleloader tag. This is normal and can be done every year. Beyond that there are special management areas in certain DMU'S where you can get unlimited doe tags. There is one 15 minutes from where I work and I have participated in the past. A friend of mine killed 12 does last year in one of those areas plus 2 bucks on his regular tags for a total of 14 all legally harvested. I myself lost count many years ago but I figure I've killed at least 200 and that's being conservative. In short, I am no newbie to killing deer or examining the terminal effects of various bullets/calibers. As stated previously, I have killed nearly 80 deer with a .30-30 , several of those with handloads using 125 and 130 gr. bullets which virtually duplicated the standard factory ballistics of the 7.62 x 39. Yes, those loads killed deer, no they were not as good as a 170 grain bullet at 2200fps due to reduced penetration. Can you point out where I said rost was my hero? No? Didn't think so. I brought him up because of your insistence on one of us having at least the level of experiences in certain areas you have. Jeff tops that, and easily so. You're not impressed? Oh well, the experience is there in spades. He's FAR from a braggart as well, very, very rarely mentioning who he is or what he has done. NY certainly HAS had far more limited tags that what you may now have. They certainly have not had that liberal a bag limit except for just a recent few years. There were many years when the legal limit was way less than 5. To kill more than 200 in NY, assuming no travel to any other state, you'd be looking at filling all legal tags for 50 years or better; at least 40. That's a Hell of a long stretch, which you may well have accomplished. Killing 200 or more in places like TX or other Southern states (SC, for example) can be done in less than a decade, if one sets out to do so. Hell, there are areas in NC that have no daily limit and no season limit; shoot as many as you want from Sept to Jan. There are a lot of other people who aren't newbies to killing deer or terminal ballistics, either; perhaps you should understand that. You say you've killed almost 80 with the .30-30. Great. How many with the 7.62x39, and which loads?
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
Don't know why you need a .30 cal anything to kill a deer....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098 |
as versatile as the 7.62x39 is I can't see why anyone would want a 30-30
I can't think of a better driving gun than an AK with standard magazine equipped with a red dot
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
as versatile as the 7.62x39 is I can't see why anyone would want a 30-30
I can't think of a better driving gun than an AK with standard magazine equipped with a red dot Not PA legal? Might consider the new M+M Industries take on the 7.62 semi-auto. Fewer parts, better barrel, more accurate, easier to maintain, 100% US made.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Blackheart my man. I have not looked at this thread in a long time.
How close have you killed deer? Vs how far have I?
FWIW, I do it my way you do it yours. And I can tell you that while you probably have killed deer closer than mine, I will mention that I have over 100 big game kills by archery gear, only one over 25 yards, only two at 25ish yards. The rest are at or under my self imposed limit of 16 steps. The closest are a deer at 3 steps. A pig at 3 steps. Most bow kills have been under 10 steps.
As to our long range stuff, only have to say that I have a couple or maybe more, awards that might indicate its not all hot air as you indicate. Not that it matters or that I care.
I have yet to harvest past 802. I have yet to get a kill with a spear. But both are still on the list. As well as stone heads for the bow if my injury ever allows me back to my recurve...
It flat doesn't take much to kill a deer here cartridge wise. a 22lr would do the trick on most deer.
yet, the be ready part of me says you are always ready for the long shot. I have view from where I hunt, of up close, all the way out past 600 yards of wide open ridges, where if a rutting buck showed, you could never get around closer and find the buck back unless they bed... whcih they have done and we have stalked before up close.
30-30 wise I own 3... one a handgun. I've taken more than a few with them. And even though I've never taken one with the x39 with my own gun I have used my nephews a few times.
Had a large nilgai once with the 30-30 contender handgun too... when I was young and dumb enough to think record books were cool, it was #5....for a time.
Simply to think that TX is full of thickets or totally wide open shows not much knowledge of this state at all. Or to think that TX has so many deer any fool could kill them on demand... some areas yes, some its pretty tough, mixed in with public land etc... other hunters, permits required and so on.
I suspect before talking about someone we should all learn who they really are. BTW there was a time frame where I never used a gun, probably close to 15 years, and never shot less than 4 deer..... hmmm....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Don't know why you need a .30 cal anything to kill a deer.... Oh snap
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 |
Blackheart, Setting aside this mini ballistics pissing contest for a moment, I wanted to make sure you didn't miss Paul's latest thread. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11560743#Post11554644As I recall, no one challenges your experience in the subject area.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098 |
wonder what the fine is for smuggling asstrout
Last edited by gitem_12; 11/07/16.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233 |
Which one of you works in the gun business? I do azzhole. 8 years full time gunmithing. When the rest of you goobers have done that, plus hunted with, handloaded for and killed 75 deer with the .30-30 let me know. rost495, easily and then some. Just one, for example. Out of curiosity, how many have you killed with the 7.62x39? Rost has never impressed me much at all frankly. He likes to brag about killing deer at exteme distances sure but no good hunter needs to do that. Particularly someplace like Texas where deer are thick and easy to kill in numbers. If he's your hero for some reason, so be it. BTW you've mentioned the "limited" amount of tags available in NY a couple of times so lets clear some of that up. I have 5 tags for this season right now. A gun season buck tag, two DMP doe tags, which can be used in gun, bow, crossbow or muzzleloader season, an either sex bow/ muzzleloader tag and an antlerless only bow/muzzleloader tag. This is normal and can be done every year. Beyond that there are special management areas in certain DMU'S where you can get unlimited doe tags. There is one 15 minutes from where I work and I have participated in the past. A friend of mine killed 12 does last year in one of those areas plus 2 bucks on his regular tags for a total of 14 all legally harvested. I myself lost count many years ago but I figure I've killed at least 200 and that's being conservative. In short, I am no newbie to killing deer or examining the terminal effects of various bullets/calibers. As stated previously, I have killed nearly 80 deer with a .30-30 , several of those with handloads using 125 and 130 gr. bullets which virtually duplicated the standard factory ballistics of the 7.62 x 39. Yes, those loads killed deer, no they were not as good as a 170 grain bullet at 2200fps due to reduced penetration. Can you point out where I said rost was my hero? No? Didn't think so. I brought him up because of your insistence on one of us having at least the level of experiences in certain areas you have. Jeff tops that, and easily so. You're not impressed? Oh well, the experience is there in spades. He's FAR from a braggart as well, very, very rarely mentioning who he is or what he has done. NY certainly HAS had far more limited tags that what you may now have. They certainly have not had that liberal a bag limit except for just a recent few years. There were many years when the legal limit was way less than 5. To kill more than 200 in NY, assuming no travel to any other state, you'd be looking at filling all legal tags for 50 years or better; at least 40. That's a Hell of a long stretch, which you may well have accomplished. Killing 200 or more in places like TX or other Southern states (SC, for example) can be done in less than a decade, if one sets out to do so. Hell, there are areas in NC that have no daily limit and no season limit; shoot as many as you want from Sept to Jan. There are a lot of other people who aren't newbies to killing deer or terminal ballistics, either; perhaps you should understand that. You say you've killed almost 80 with the .30-30. Great. How many with the 7.62x39, and which loads? Actually it was back in the 90's when they started handing out 2 DMP doe tags per hunter like they were candy. I forgot to mention in my last post that tranferring doe tags from one hunter to another is also legal. Many hunters {including me} will have their non hunting wives, children, friends etc. buy a license just so they can use their doe tags. Those tags are good in any season, gun, bow, crossbow and muzzleloader. You are only allowed to use two transferred tags per year so that takes your total number of legally harvested deer up to 7 per season without participating in one of the special management units. I have hunted 41 seasons here now and filled every tag I could get my hands on every year up until the last two. Now that my last children have moved out and I have been diagnosed with kidney disease and subsequently put on a low protein diet, I simply don't use as much venison as before so 3 per year has been enough. A s to your question of how many deer I've shot with the 7.62x39 the answer is none. I thought I had made it pretty clear that I had shot several with a .30-30 using handloads that virtually duplicate the performance of the usual 123 -125 grain 7.62 x 39 factory loads more than once in this thread.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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[quote=kingston]Which one of you works in the gun business? I do azzhole. 8 years full time gunmithing. When the rest of you goobers have done that, plus hunted with, handloaded for and killed 75 deer with the .30-30 let me know. rost495, easily and then some. Just one, for example. Out of curiosity, how many have you killed with the 7.62x39?[/quote Rost has never impressed me much at all frankly. He likes to brag about killing deer at exteme distances sure but no good hunter needs to do that. Particularly someplace like Texas where deer are thick and easy to kill in numbers. If he's your hero for some reason, so be it. BTW you've mentioned the "limited" amount of tags available in NY a couple of times so lets clear some of that up. I have 5 tags for this season right now. A gun season buck tag, two DMP doe tags, which can be used in gun, bow, crossbow or muzzleloader season, an either sex bow/ muzzleloader tag and an antlerless only bow/muzzleloader tag. This is normal and can be done every year. Beyond that there are special management areas in certain DMU'S where you can get unlimited doe tags. There is one 15 minutes from where I work and I have participated in the past. A friend of mine killed 12 does last year in one of those areas plus 2 bucks on his regular tags for a total of 14 all legally harvested. I myself lost count many years ago but I figure I've killed at least 200 and that's being conservative. In short, I am no newbie to killing deer or examining the terminal effects of various bullets/calibers. As stated previously, I have killed nearly 80 deer with a .30-30 , several of those with handloads using 125 and 130 gr. bullets which virtually duplicated the standard factory ballistics of the 7.62 x 39. Yes, those loads killed deer, no they were not as good as a 170 grain bullet at 2200fps due to reduced penetration. Can you point out where I said rost was my hero? No? Didn't think so. I brought him up because of your insistence on one of us having at least the level of experiences in certain areas you have. Jeff tops that, and easily so. You're not impressed? Oh well, the experience is there in spades. He's FAR from a braggart as well, very, very rarely mentioning who he is or what he has done. NY certainly HAS had far more limited tags that what you may now have. They certainly have not had that liberal a bag limit except for just a recent few years. There were many years when the legal limit was way less than 5. To kill more than 200 in NY, assuming no travel to any other state, you'd be looking at filling all legal tags for 50 years or better; at least 40. That's a Hell of a long stretch, which you may well have accomplished. Killing 200 or more in places like TX or other Southern states (SC, for example) can be done in less than a decade, if one sets out to do so. Hell, there are areas in NC that have no daily limit and no season limit; shoot as many as you want from Sept to Jan. There are a lot of other people who aren't newbies to killing deer or terminal ballistics, either; perhaps you should understand that. You say you've killed almost 80 with the .30-30. Great. How many with the 7.62x39, and which loads? Actually it was back in the 90's when they started handing out 2 DMP doe tags per hunter like they were candy. I forgot to mention in my last post that tranferring doe tags from one hunter to another is also legal. Many hunters {including me} will have their non hunting wives, children, friends etc. buy a license just so they can use their doe tags. Those tags are good in any season, gun, bow, crossbow and muzzleloader. You are only allowed to use two transferred tags per year so that takes your total number of legally harvested deer up to 7 per season without participating in one of the special management units. I have hunted 41 seasons here now and filled every tag I could get my hands on every year up until the last two. Now that my last children have moved out and I have been diagnosed with kidney disease and subsequently put on a low protein diet, I simply don't use as much venison as before so 3 per year has been enough. A s to your question of how many deer I've shot with the 7.62x39 the answer is none. I thought I had made it pretty clear that I had shot several with a .30-30 using handloads that virtually duplicate the performance of the usual 123 -125 grain 7.62 x 39 factory loads more than once in this thread. 1) learned something on the transfer of tags. I never knew that, and that makes sense as to how getting that many up there is possible. Obliged. 2) sorry to hear about the medical maladies; that sucks. After this season, I'll do some additional load work up with heavier bullets in the 7.62x39 (now that some unobtanium powder has surfaced). These will be bolt gun only loads. I'll even run some 170 grain .308" FN and RN ".30-30" bullets for direct comparison. Being shorter than the spitzer 174s I've run previously, that added capacity might just be a little boost.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
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The 30 WCF is a great cartridge, the 7.62x39mm is good as well, but my pick is the 300 Blackout. I predict it will be the end of the 30-30.
The .30-30 will be around as long as Grumman aluminum canoes, .45ACPs, and cockroaches. Tongue in cheek, my friend.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
The 30 WCF is a great cartridge, the 7.62x39mm is good as well, but my pick is the 300 Blackout. I predict it will be the end of the 30-30.
The .30-30 will be around as long as Grumman aluminum canoes, .45ACPs, and cockroaches. Tongue in cheek, my friend. Figured, as I suspect you might just have one or two...
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233 |
Blackheart my man. I have not looked at this thread in a long time.
How close have you killed deer? Vs how far have I?
FWIW, I do it my way you do it yours. And I can tell you that while you probably have killed deer closer than mine, I will mention that I have over 100 big game kills by archery gear, only one over 25 yards, only two at 25ish yards. The rest are at or under my self imposed limit of 16 steps. The closest are a deer at 3 steps. A pig at 3 steps. Most bow kills have been under 10 steps.
As to our long range stuff, only have to say that I have a couple or maybe more, awards that might indicate its not all hot air as you indicate. Not that it matters or that I care.
I have yet to harvest past 802. I have yet to get a kill with a spear. But both are still on the list. As well as stone heads for the bow if my injury ever allows me back to my recurve...
It flat doesn't take much to kill a deer here cartridge wise. a 22lr would do the trick on most deer.
yet, the be ready part of me says you are always ready for the long shot. I have view from where I hunt, of up close, all the way out past 600 yards of wide open ridges, where if a rutting buck showed, you could never get around closer and find the buck back unless they bed... whcih they have done and we have stalked before up close.
30-30 wise I own 3... one a handgun. I've taken more than a few with them. And even though I've never taken one with the x39 with my own gun I have used my nephews a few times.
Had a large nilgai once with the 30-30 contender handgun too... when I was young and dumb enough to think record books were cool, it was #5....for a time.
Simply to think that TX is full of thickets or totally wide open shows not much knowledge of this state at all. Or to think that TX has so many deer any fool could kill them on demand... some areas yes, some its pretty tough, mixed in with public land etc... other hunters, permits required and so on.
I suspect before talking about someone we should all learn who they really are. BTW there was a time frame where I never used a gun, probably close to 15 years, and never shot less than 4 deer..... hmmm.... Well Rost I have more than a few awards earned on the firing line in NRA registered 4 position smallbore competition myself. I won't bore you with all the details but I have been to the state championships more than once and placed in the top 3 each time. One year I even took high individual. Beyond that, I have competed in the Empire State games, the Northeastern states championship and been invited to the olympic tryouts. My offhand averge was the highest in the league and my kneeling average the second highest. I hold every NRA smallbore marksmanship award there is, up to and including distinguished expert. I have killed deer with rifle, shotgun, handgun, bow, muzzleloader and motor vehicle, including several with each of the .22 LR, .22 mag and 5mm Remington rimfire mag. on agricultural damage control permits. The fact that I could probably muster the skill to shoot deer at long distances is unimportant because I simply have no need, nor the desire, nor even a place to do so.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 19,233 |
Which one of you works in the gun business? I do azzhole. 8 years full time gunmithing. When the rest of you goobers have done that, plus hunted with, handloaded for and killed 75 deer with the .30-30 let me know. rost495, easily and then some. Just one, for example. Out of curiosity, how many have you killed with the 7.62x39? Rost has never impressed me much at all frankly. He likes to brag about killing deer at exteme distances sure but no good hunter needs to do that. Particularly someplace like Texas where deer are thick and easy to kill in numbers. If he's your hero for some reason, so be it. BTW you've mentioned the "limited" amount of tags available in NY a couple of times so lets clear some of that up. I have 5 tags for this season right now. A gun season buck tag, two DMP doe tags, which can be used in gun, bow, crossbow or muzzleloader season, an either sex bow/ muzzleloader tag and an antlerless only bow/muzzleloader tag. This is normal and can be done every year. Beyond that there are special management areas in certain DMU'S where you can get unlimited doe tags. There is one 15 minutes from where I work and I have participated in the past. A friend of mine killed 12 does last year in one of those areas plus 2 bucks on his regular tags for a total of 14 all legally harvested. I myself lost count many years ago but I figure I've killed at least 200 and that's being conservative. In short, I am no newbie to killing deer or examining the terminal effects of various bullets/calibers. As stated previously, I have killed nearly 80 deer with a .30-30 , several of those with handloads using 125 and 130 gr. bullets which virtually duplicated the standard factory ballistics of the 7.62 x 39. Yes, those loads killed deer, no they were not as good as a 170 grain bullet at 2200fps due to reduced penetration. your last sentence sort of underscores why so.many think you're fugg in retarded if the 170s killed deer, and the 125s killed deer. then you can't logically state that the 125s were not as good as the 170s. unless you have a scientific protocol that demands x amount of penetration in order for a certain round to be adequate. however, seeing that the point of hunting deer is to kill them. then dead is dead...regardless of the amount of penetration Sometimes it's damned nice to have an exit wound for a better chance of a good blood trail. Sometimes it's nice to have enough penetration to take a hard raking shot and still reach the vitals. Sometimes it's nice to be able to break both shoulders on a large buck and plant his azz right there. The 170 grain .30-30 bullet is much better for any of that than a 125. At least so long as we're talking conventional jacketed cnc bullets. Now, who's the fuggin retard again ?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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When fielding questions regarding deer rifles, I frequently got the one: ". . . my BIL says I should by an SKS, 'cause it shoots gooder than my 30-30 and the ammo is cheaper."
Case capacity wins every time in any discussion of the theoretical limits of two cartridges. Isn't there about a 25% advantage in favor of a 30-30? I'd say that pretty well says it all.
Yes, a souped-up 7.62 X39 fired from a nice bolt gun will do about the same job on a deer as a factory 30-30 up to a point, but having spent a good part of my life around KY hillbillies that spent the better part of their lives trying to make their 30-30's work like aught-sixes, I'd give the edge to the 30 WCF.
Yep, and if you want to soup up the 30-30 with Paco kellys 40,000 cup handloads {same pressure the 444 Marlin is loaded to in the 336 action} it really stomps the 7.62x39. And what deer bullet does Paco Kelly recommend above all others for the .30-30? The Speer 130. It has radically better SD than a 125... Actually, the sectional density of the 125 gr. is .185 and the 130 gr. is .196. Not much difference there at all. The SD of a 170 gr. is .256 just FYI.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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as versatile as the 7.62x39 is I can't see why anyone would want a 30-30
I can't think of a better driving gun than an AK with standard magazine equipped with a red dot AK handles like a fuggin club. A winchester 94 handles like it just fell from heaven.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 23,453 |
Blackheart my man. I have not looked at this thread in a long time.
How close have you killed deer? Vs how far have I?
FWIW, I do it my way you do it yours. And I can tell you that while you probably have killed deer closer than mine, I will mention that I have over 100 big game kills by archery gear, only one over 25 yards, only two at 25ish yards. The rest are at or under my self imposed limit of 16 steps. The closest are a deer at 3 steps. A pig at 3 steps. Most bow kills have been under 10 steps.
As to our long range stuff, only have to say that I have a couple or maybe more, awards that might indicate its not all hot air as you indicate. Not that it matters or that I care.
I have yet to harvest past 802. I have yet to get a kill with a spear. But both are still on the list. As well as stone heads for the bow if my injury ever allows me back to my recurve...
It flat doesn't take much to kill a deer here cartridge wise. a 22lr would do the trick on most deer.
yet, the be ready part of me says you are always ready for the long shot. I have view from where I hunt, of up close, all the way out past 600 yards of wide open ridges, where if a rutting buck showed, you could never get around closer and find the buck back unless they bed... whcih they have done and we have stalked before up close.
30-30 wise I own 3... one a handgun. I've taken more than a few with them. And even though I've never taken one with the x39 with my own gun I have used my nephews a few times.
Had a large nilgai once with the 30-30 contender handgun too... when I was young and dumb enough to think record books were cool, it was #5....for a time.
Simply to think that TX is full of thickets or totally wide open shows not much knowledge of this state at all. Or to think that TX has so many deer any fool could kill them on demand... some areas yes, some its pretty tough, mixed in with public land etc... other hunters, permits required and so on.
I suspect before talking about someone we should all learn who they really are. BTW there was a time frame where I never used a gun, probably close to 15 years, and never shot less than 4 deer..... hmmm.... Well Rost I have more than a few awards earned on the firing line in NRA registered 4 position smallbore competition myself. I won't bore you with all the details but I have been to the state championships more than once and placed in the top 3 each time. One year I even took high individual. Beyond that, I have competed in the Empire State games, the Northeastern states championship and been invited to the olympic tryouts. My offhand averge was the highest in the league and my kneeling average the second highest. I hold every NRA smallbore marksmanship award there is, up to and including distinguished expert. I have killed deer with rifle, shotgun, handgun, bow, muzzleloader and motor vehicle, including several with each of the .22 LR, .22 mag and 5mm Remington rimfire mag. on agricultural damage control peermits. This part of the pissing contest ought to get interesting...
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
as versatile as the 7.62x39 is I can't see why anyone would want a 30-30
I can't think of a better driving gun than an AK with standard magazine equipped with a red dot AK handles like a fuggin club. A winchester 94 handles like it just fell from heaven. 'Twas a joke...
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
When fielding questions regarding deer rifles, I frequently got the one: ". . . my BIL says I should by an SKS, 'cause it shoots gooder than my 30-30 and the ammo is cheaper."
Case capacity wins every time in any discussion of the theoretical limits of two cartridges. Isn't there about a 25% advantage in favor of a 30-30? I'd say that pretty well says it all.
Yes, a souped-up 7.62 X39 fired from a nice bolt gun will do about the same job on a deer as a factory 30-30 up to a point, but having spent a good part of my life around KY hillbillies that spent the better part of their lives trying to make their 30-30's work like aught-sixes, I'd give the edge to the 30 WCF.
Yep, and if you want to soup up the 30-30 with Paco kellys 40,000 cup handloads {same pressure the 444 Marlin is loaded to in the 336 action} it really stomps the 7.62x39. And what deer bullet does Paco Kelly recommend above all others for the .30-30? The Speer 130. It has radically better SD than a 125... Actually, the sectional density of the 125 gr. is .185 and the 130 gr. is .196. Not much difference there at all. The SD of a 170 gr. is .256 just FYI. 150 .312" is .220; 174 is .255. Running some numbers, the x39 ought to be able to through the .308" 170 ".30-30" bullets at 2200, +/- 50 fps (RL-7 and AA1680, for starters). It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 |
Can we just get back to who's the better pants shîtter.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233 |
Can we just get back to who's the better pants shîtter. That post from Paul was hilarious. Glad you brought it to my attention. Anyone who swears they've never sharted is most likely a liar. Happened to a young coworker of mine just last week and it was funny as hell. We were still getting a few good laughs out of it today.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
A climbing stand shart is, well... 
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233 |
When fielding questions regarding deer rifles, I frequently got the one: ". . . my BIL says I should by an SKS, 'cause it shoots gooder than my 30-30 and the ammo is cheaper."
Case capacity wins every time in any discussion of the theoretical limits of two cartridges. Isn't there about a 25% advantage in favor of a 30-30? I'd say that pretty well says it all.
Yes, a souped-up 7.62 X39 fired from a nice bolt gun will do about the same job on a deer as a factory 30-30 up to a point, but having spent a good part of my life around KY hillbillies that spent the better part of their lives trying to make their 30-30's work like aught-sixes, I'd give the edge to the 30 WCF.
Yep, and if you want to soup up the 30-30 with Paco kellys 40,000 cup handloads {same pressure the 444 Marlin is loaded to in the 336 action} it really stomps the 7.62x39. And what deer bullet does Paco Kelly recommend above all others for the .30-30? The Speer 130. It has radically better SD than a 125... Actually, the sectional density of the 125 gr. is .185 and the 130 gr. is .196. Not much difference there at all. The SD of a 170 gr. is .256 just FYI. 150 .312" is .220; 174 is .255. Running some numbers, the x39 ought to be able to through the .308" 170 ".30-30" bullets at 2200, +/- 50 fps (RL-7 and AA1680, for starters). It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out. I'd be interested to know your results. Been thinking on getting the wife a new deerslayer and the CZ527 carbine is one I've considered. Crazy woman isn't fond of lever guns.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Blackheart my man. I have not looked at this thread in a long time.
How close have you killed deer? Vs how far have I?
FWIW, I do it my way you do it yours. And I can tell you that while you probably have killed deer closer than mine, I will mention that I have over 100 big game kills by archery gear, only one over 25 yards, only two at 25ish yards. The rest are at or under my self imposed limit of 16 steps. The closest are a deer at 3 steps. A pig at 3 steps. Most bow kills have been under 10 steps.
As to our long range stuff, only have to say that I have a couple or maybe more, awards that might indicate its not all hot air as you indicate. Not that it matters or that I care.
I have yet to harvest past 802. I have yet to get a kill with a spear. But both are still on the list. As well as stone heads for the bow if my injury ever allows me back to my recurve...
It flat doesn't take much to kill a deer here cartridge wise. a 22lr would do the trick on most deer.
yet, the be ready part of me says you are always ready for the long shot. I have view from where I hunt, of up close, all the way out past 600 yards of wide open ridges, where if a rutting buck showed, you could never get around closer and find the buck back unless they bed... whcih they have done and we have stalked before up close.
30-30 wise I own 3... one a handgun. I've taken more than a few with them. And even though I've never taken one with the x39 with my own gun I have used my nephews a few times.
Had a large nilgai once with the 30-30 contender handgun too... when I was young and dumb enough to think record books were cool, it was #5....for a time.
Simply to think that TX is full of thickets or totally wide open shows not much knowledge of this state at all. Or to think that TX has so many deer any fool could kill them on demand... some areas yes, some its pretty tough, mixed in with public land etc... other hunters, permits required and so on.
I suspect before talking about someone we should all learn who they really are. BTW there was a time frame where I never used a gun, probably close to 15 years, and never shot less than 4 deer..... hmmm.... Well Rost I have more than a few awards earned on the firing line in NRA registered 4 position smallbore competition myself. I won't bore you with all the details but I have been to the state championships more than once and placed in the top 3 each time. One year I even took high individual. Beyond that, I have competed in the Empire State games, the Northeastern states championship and been invited to the olympic tryouts. My offhand averge was the highest in the league and my kneeling average the second highest. I hold every NRA smallbore marksmanship award there is, up to and including distinguished expert. I have killed deer with rifle, shotgun, handgun, bow, muzzleloader and motor vehicle, including several with each of the .22 LR, .22 mag and 5mm Remington rimfire mag. on agricultural damage control peermits. This part of the pissing contest ought to get interesting... LOL nope, I"m clearly outgunned. We'll leave it at that. LOL.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 |
Can we just get back to who's the better pants shîtter. That post from Paul was hilarious. Glad you brought it to my attention. Anyone who swears they've never sharted is most likely a liar. Happened to a young coworker of mine just last week and it was funny as hell. We were still getting a few good laughs out of it today. There's little better than a good "I [bleep] my pants story". 
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
[quote=shaman]When fielding questions regarding deer rifles, I frequently got the one: ". . . my BIL says I should by an SKS, 'cause it shoots gooder than my 30-30 and the ammo is cheaper."
Case capacity wins every time in any discussion of the theoretical limits of two cartridges. Isn't there about a 25% advantage in favor of a 30-30? I'd say that pretty well says it all.
Yes, a souped-up 7.62 X39 fired from a nice bolt gun will do about the same job on a deer as a factory 30-30 up to a point, but having spent a good part of my life around KY hillbillies that spent the better part of their lives trying to make their 30-30's work like aught-sixes, I'd give the edge to the 30 WCF.
Yep, and if you want to soup up the 30-30 with Paco kellys 40,000 cup handloads {same pressure the 444 Marlin is loaded to in the 336 action} it really stomps the 7.62x39. And what deer bullet does Paco Kelly recommend above all others for the .30-30? The Speer 130. It has radically better SD than a 125... Actually, the sectional density of the 125 gr. is .185 and the 130 gr. is .196. Not much difference there at all. The SD of a 170 gr. is .256 just FYI. 150 .312" is .220; 174 is .255. Running some numbers, the x39 ought to be able to through the .308" 170 ".30-30" bullets at 2200, +/- 50 fps (RL-7 and AA1680, for starters). It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.[/quote I'd be interested to know your results. Been thinking on getting the wife a new deerslayer and the CZ527 carbine is one I've considered. Crazy woman isn't fond of lever guns. The CZ is a damned nice rifle. I'll post results.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
Don't know why you need a .30 cal anything to kill a deer.... I am laughing pretty hard too. But then I am the know nothing idiot that dropped a mule deer into it's shadow at 240 yards with a 22 hornet and a hand swaged 40 gr bullet out of a 14" TC contender. That bullet was swaged using a spent 22 short case for a jacket. If you can hit what your shooting at you don't need a 16 inch gun.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,500
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,500 |
Can we just get back to who's the better pants shîtter. Interestingly, I am eyeing a 7.63x39 Ruger Number One and stumbled upon this thread in my research. May my shart live on!
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,692
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,692 |
Tex N Cal has a Ruger No. 1 chambered for the Russian. Send him a PM and I'm sure he'll be able to let you know how his shoots so far.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
dis one? ![[Linked Image]](http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww127/tex_n_cal/762x39_zpstujxdhjv.jpg) I shot a doe with it last year, using the Hornady 123gr SST. It worked, though the bullet changed direction after impact. In the Ruger you can exceed the factory loads by a fair amount, with 1680 powder. The SST grouped pretty well in the #1, say about 1.25MOA. I have some of the prototype Nosler 123gr bullets that they sold through their pro shop. I may give them a whirl, too. The rifle has a long enough throat to use 150gr bullets, which of course adds some utility, and no silly magazine to constrain your OAL. It's not a super-anything, but it certainly kills as well as a .30-30, and is a compact gun that handles well in the blind. The report & recoil are mild.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,687
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,687 |
My CZ 527 Carbine is on the last of sells list for me. It has a few critters down (two blackbuck and a two hogs) with the Wolf 122 gr Copper Jacketed HP. At some point I will get off my azz and strip/refinish the stock as the wood is nuts.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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