24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5
C
New Member
Offline
New Member
C
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by bigblock455
American Pioneer is corrosive
Alliant says Black MZ is "Virtually non-corrosive." I don't know what "virtually" means but combustion always produces water, which itself is corrosive, and the claim seems solid enough from a solid company for me to try it! I have some AP Shokey's Gold. If nothing else, it will be interesting to see if they've tightened up the grain size consistency vs. AP SG.

Last edited by calinb; 12/10/11.
BP-B2

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
B
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
B
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
"virtually"

Trust me, its still corrosive but just not near as bad as Pyrodex or black powder.

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,174
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,174
I always reload too. And I always use Goex ffg and maxiballs.

At the range I can go 5 or 6 shots without swabbing with this combo.

Real BP can be "mail ordered" from Track of the Wolf and other places.

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 21
N
New Member
Offline
New Member
N
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by Mauser_Hunter
How can it be more moisture resistant when it clumps up so easily?b
Testing all the batches won't change that.
Hard to believe alot of what you read. I just bought some MZ at sportsmans warehouse for $10.00 a pound. It had numerous dessicant packs in it and I noticed some clumping that crumbled easily. I took it out & shot it in my Zoli .58 with 50 gr. volume. It was very consistent only 100 fps slower than 777 at same volume. I cranked up the volume and at 60 gr. volume, it was even with the 777 at 50 gr.. Was shooting Minie balls...Lyman 315 grain SWC as well as a Lee .578 Target flat nose sledgehammer thing. Had a few .580 minies I bobought from Track of Wolf thatshot well. Think the black MZ ought to be great for Minie shooters as it has a slower pressure rise seems like.

I sure had good luck with it and easy cleanup. Not in same league as Pyrodex. More akin to 777 but slower. I'm picking up 2 more pounds at $9.99 per at Sportsman.

Last edited by Newtire; 06/21/15.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
B
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
B
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
you'll like it with a huge conical like that. It does best with a tight fitting sabot or a heavy slug like it.

IC B2

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 21
N
New Member
Offline
New Member
N
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 21
Tried the Black MZ and 777 in my .58 Zouave. Black MZ performed great with the heavier Minie's and no swabbing between shots. Cleanup is not like black or pyrodex. Good stuff if you ask me.

This is from someone who actually shot the stuff and chrono tested it. Very consistent velocities. Lighter charges not so efficient but once up in weight, really shines. not much compression with Minie ball, just more weight.

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
After trying a couple of substitutes in sidelocks, I've decided that my next one will only be fed BP. I have a large distributor nearby, but it also can be ordered online, and the purchase of a few pounds will ease the hazmat pain a bit. I read a test report on Old Eynsford (spelling?) and it performed very well in a number of different applications. Using Ballistol for cleaning eliminated all that seasoning nonsense for me.

If I get bored I might even try it in my Knight Ultralite, which has only been fed BH209 so far.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
B
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
B
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
no such thing as seasoning your bore. It will still taste my steel.

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,691
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,691
I've been using it in a few rifles and it has performed well so far. I want to use one powder for #11 and 209's, it lights with either with no issue. I've used it with PRB, Great Plains, Maxi-Ball, and sabot with good results. I've not yet used it really cold weather, but it was 33 degrees when I got to the range this weekend. The powder does come with desiccant packs inside and it will clump up a little. I just lightly shook the bottle and the clumps went away.

I can load multiple shots without wiping the barrel, except with sabots. The plastic fouling is the issue in that instance. You can still load that second shot with the sabot, but it's a bich.

Clean up is easy, but I'm pretty thorough with that no matter what I use.

The biggest thing that drove me to it was the issue with T7 shooting to a VERY different POI between a clean barrel and the second shot, even if it was wiped between. That was a confidence killer.


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." TJ

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". EB

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,686
C
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
C
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,686
Well, I will go ahead and give my 2 cents worth. I bought a pound of Black MZ. It's what I run in my Knight LK93 54 Caliber. I shoot 425 grain Hornady Great Plains bullets in that rifle with 100 grains of the Black MZ and it is good to go, accuracy wise, with only a spit patch and a dry patch after every two shots.

My rifle is set up to shoot number 11 caps, so I can't shoot BH209.

I'll likely buy another pound. (Oh, and like others have mentioned, a shake of the can does away with clumps.)


"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis

IC B3

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 21
N
New Member
Offline
New Member
N
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 21
Since my last post, I have shot the black MZ in a couple more guns. I hunted doves using an old N.R. Davis caplock double 11 gauge. Using 1 oz. and 1-1/8 oz. of #7 and equal volume Black MZ, it was a real dove killing combination. I switched to #7 from 7-1/2 as it seems to work better on those tough Eurasian ring neck ones. Anyhow, it worked great in the shotgun application. I next tried it in my 20 ga. Pedersoli "trade gun" flintlock. I used a charge of 4f real deal black in the pan. Had bad luck getting the Black MZ to go off in the flintlock. It may have something to do with the fact that I'm just now breaking in to shooting flintlock guns or else it is harder to light off. Sure didn't have any trouble in the caplocks. I wound up poking a wire thru the flash hole and got it to light off that way. Still, was a noticeable hangfire compared to Wano 2F from Graf's. Next, will try it in some BP cartridge guns and see about those. So, the quest continues!

This, I know for sure:
I have had no troubles with any kind of fouling that required me to wipe between shots.
Cleanup is a breeze.
It is not even in the same category as Pyrodex as far as being corrosive goes. I haven't noticed any sort of corrosive effect really.
It is a bit harder to set off than real black but not noticeable with percussion guns for me.
Works great in shotguns and heavyweight bullet guns.

Also, that the jury is still out. Making a call on this stuff right away is like buying a car based on a report by one of the popular car magazines on a new car. Bring me that car in 5 years and then we can make a judgement on whether the car is really any good over the long haul. My opinion, your mileage may vary. Peace out!

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 145
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 145
That's been my results using the sister 50gr pellets (Blue MZ) with my two inlines. I like it overall also. But I refuse to give it a permanent green light until after this next upcoming hunting season in late fall.

I've run across issues using substitute powders before, that didn't show their ugly side until fully tested in all kinds of weather and temps. I'll never use Blackhorn, Pyrodex, American Pioneer/Shockeys or 777 again.
So I will hold judgement of MZ until 2019 and continue use of Goex FFF in my sidehammers.

Last edited by GoexBlackhorn; 05/13/18.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,089
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,089
Real black powder. Order it from powder Inc or another distributor.
Or just stuff sugar and fertilizer down the barrel, may as well.


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke 1795

"Give me liberty or give me death"
Patrick Henry 1775
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947
O
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947
Quote
That's been my results using the sister 50gr pellets (Blue MZ) with my two inlines


Cant imagine why you would refer to it as a sister. The only relation they have is the Alliant branding. One is made by APP and the pellets sure appear to be a IMR product with blue dye added. It would be like saying White Hots and JSG Super powder are "sisters". Its very easy to prove this just by looking at who holds the patents on both products.....Here is a hint....Its not Alliant. wink If that isnt enough look at the Safety Data Sheets. The BlueMz is identical to IMR White Hots.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
B
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
B
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
yep blue mz is in fact repackaged IMR Whitehots. Alliant doesnt make any black powder subs.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,089
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,089
Quote
I next tried it in my 20 ga. Pedersoli "trade gun" flintlock. I used a charge of 4f real deal black in the pan. Had bad luck getting the Black MZ to go off in the flintlock. It may have something to do with the fact that I'm just now breaking in to shooting flintlock guns or else it is harder to light off.


A flintlock can not produce the higher heat required to light off substitutes for black powder. You will only get satisfactory ignition in flintlocks using real black powder. The substitute powders require higher heat, the main reason for the "magnum" hotter caps we now have, the musket cap conversion nipples, and the guns made to use shotgun primers.

In the year 1834 Nathaniel Wyeth wrote in his journal about converting 3 flintlock rifles to percussion because the powder they had access to was in poor condition and the flintlocks would not ignite it. The percussion cap produces a much hotter flame than a flintlock can.

The one time I was forced to try substitute powder was a failure in the flintlocks and not much better in the cap locks. The only good use we have found for it is in our cannons with a burning fuse. And we never run out of it because someone is always giving us their partially used containers after they tried it in their rifles with dismal results.

If one is forced to use artificial black powder I would recommend a rifle that can use a musket cap or better yet a 209 shotgun primer.


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke 1795

"Give me liberty or give me death"
Patrick Henry 1775
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,153
I
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
I
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,153
What about accuracy in the inlines with these powders? I ask cause I just opened my first Alliant " black powder" . I can't get this Encore to shoot well at all. I tried Blackhorn and even with the magnum CCI primers it has a split second fizz before going off. I used 777 and it seemed fine so I may get more. I tried 44 cal. / green sabots, 45 cal. black Harvesters, I tried 50 cal home made cast bullets with terrible results. I made sure the scope was tight. I did everything and it is a 4" 50 yd gun and no better. 90 gr. of Alliant seems to be the best but not my much.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
If you're getting delayed ignition with BH209, it's most likely your breech plug is partly blocked by residue. A wire pick won't remove it, it has to be dug out with proper-sized drill bits and solvent. Also, lubricated lead bullets don't have enough bore resistance for proper ignition and burn with BH. I've had Ball-ets bloop downrange trailing smoke like bottle rockets. Very pretty, according to my wife!


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,153
I
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
I
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,153
Pappy, do I need a 209 blackthorn plug ? Ive heard of them but never seen them.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,523
Never heard of a special one for the Encore.


What fresh Hell is this?
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
756 members (007FJ, 10gaugemag, 10ring1, 160user, 10gaugeman, 02bfishn, 84 invisible), 2,908 guests, and 1,237 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,704
Posts18,400,064
Members73,820
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.112s Queries: 15 (0.006s) Memory: 0.9027 MB (Peak: 1.0596 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 00:41:51 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS