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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by thomasgajan
the definition of obsolete something whos usefulness is gone over taken by progress. I do not believe that applies to any cartridge



Then please provide a more suitable word.


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I tend to like obsolete rounds, not because they are unpopular or unusual (although that does play a part) but because often they fill need that no other cartridge can do as well. I do like the look on peoples face when they ask what I am shooting and I say, ".250-3000" as opposed to saying ".243", but generally I am more interested in performance.

The reasons why some chamberings fall from favor and become obsolete are mysterious. Some you can understand but others "should" have been great....and never were.

Some obsolete chamberings are gone for a good reason.....they never filled a need. I don't care for the .284 Win. It never produced any ballistics that couldn't be obtained by the .280 and were surpassed by the 7mm Mag. It did this with a rebated rim that created more problems than it solved. The .284 had no reason for existing.

The 6.5 and .350 Remington Magnums fit into this "no reason to exist" category. They replicated the ballistics of other rounds based on the .30-06 case, were beaten badly by true magnum cased rounds....and did it in some of the ugliest rifles ever marketed. If someone WANTS a cartridge to fail.....they should study these rounds history.

Other rounds that have fallen from favor were exceptional in performance and in some cases never equaled. The .220 Swift is a favorite of mine. It is still the fastest commercial varmit round ever produced. The .22-250 comes reasonably close but falls just short. The .220 was cursed by being introduced too soon. Powders and bullets available at the time gave it a reputation of being hard on barrels...which it was. With modern steels and powders it is no more so than any other high-intensity .22 caliber round....but the damage was already done in the public's mind and it drifted into oblivion.

A round I really like is the .25-20 in a rifle. It is the closest thing to a reloadable .22 LR (with 86 grain bullets) and can exceed .22 Magnum ballistics as well with lighter bullets. I guess there just wasn't a "need" for a reloadable small game cartridge, but I always liked it No other round fills this need as well.

I also like the .32-20. Not so much in a rifle, but in a handgun. I really can't justify this one so well as other rounds perform similarly with less trouble (thin bottle-neck cases). When loaded to it's capability in a modern revolver the .32-20 will outperform the .38 Spl and come very close to .357 performance in the field. I like it a lot.....just wish I could make a more favorable argument for why it shouldn't have failed.

The .250-3000 is perhaps not truly obsolete, but it's close. I love this round. True it will do nothing that the .257 Roberts won't (another round that just barely hangs on), but it does have one trait that makes it a favorite.....it fits in the Savage 99 rifle. That's reason enough to exist.

Another round that is on it's way to disappearing is the .35 Remington. It is truly a great close range round, but unfortunately that type of hunting is mostly in the past. Modern hunters don't seem to want a close range "thumper" no matter how well it does it's intended job.

The .375 Winchester is also a personal favorite, but it will suffer the same fate as the .35 Remington.....for the same reason. No interest by modern hunters. It is a great short range round, but was unlucky enough to have been introduced just as the taste of shooters was changing. It never had a chance and even though it outperforms the .35 Remington was never even as popular as that failing round. Had the .375 been introduced in the 1950's it might have become a legend in the deer woods.....but we'll never know.

One of my favorite handgun cartridges is possibly also on it's way to oblivion. The 10mm seems to keep hanging on....just barely....so it may be a while before it becomes obsolete. It's entire history has been tenuous. Introduced in the Bren 10.....which never really succeeded.....it was left without a platform to use it. Then when the 1911 was modified, it ran into problems with frame cracking. The FBI (and it's limp-wristed shooters) did the 10mm no favors when they decided to download it. Then the .40S&W stole a lot of it's thunder when it was realized the same weak ballistics could be had in a shorter cartridge. Through all this the full-loaded 10mm remains a very powerful round. One of the few that should be considered in a "normal" semi-auto handgun for hunting purposes. The 10mm SHOULD survive, but may not.

The last of the obsolete rounds I like and use often is the 7.63 Mauser (duplicated by the 7.65x25mm at higher pressure). Don't know why I like this one so much but it is one of my favorite "fun" guns in the C-96 Mauser pistol. It is already obsolete and will likely disappear totally due to a lack of firearms so chambered and the potential danger when 7.65x25 ammo is substituted into older guns.



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Originally Posted by CRS
Originally Posted by jorgeI
303 British
[Linked Image]

I also enjoy hunting with the 405 WCF, 348 Winchester, 32 Win Special and the 300 Savage


No belts or W's? grin


They ain't obsolete... smile


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Texas Rick -

"the 284 had no reason for existing."

The other things you said per the 284 are accurate enuff but or except...

The 284 DID work thru the Win 88 & 100. The same reason you said the 250-3000 deserved to exist is that it would work thru the Savage 99. ** Same-Same**

Also Win attempted to achieve 280 (270) performance in a lever/auto actions. I don't know IF it did or NOT because I have never chronographed 284 Win factory ammo in anything.

But Win 'attempted'.

You also mentioned other cartridges that in 'your opinion' are good rounds and should not be obsolete..

In 'my opinion' some or all of those have NO reason to exist.


Opinions ---- Belly buttons. smile

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Originally Posted by jwall
Texas Rick -

"the 284 had no reason for existing."

The other things you said per the 284 are accurate enuff but or except...

The 284 DID work thru the Win 88 & 100. The same reason you said the 250-3000 deserved to exist is that it would work thru the Savage 99. ** Same-Same**

Also Win attempted to achieve 280 (270) performance in a lever/auto actions. I don't know IF it did or NOT because I have never chronographed 284 Win factory ammo in anything.

But Win 'attempted'.

You also mentioned other cartridges that in 'your opinion' are good rounds and should not be obsolete..

In 'my opinion' some or all of those have NO reason to exist.


Opinions ---- Belly buttons. smile

Jerry




Yes. The .280 was developed to give .270 ballistics in the 740 autoloader and the .284 was introduced to give .280 performance to the model 88.

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.308 Norma mag was good but has been replaced by .300 WSM.

.264 Win Mag was good and has not been adequately replaced.

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I have a thing for old cartridges like many of the rest of you, I've got a Newton rifle in .256 Newton and my Great-Grandfathers in .30 Newton, he bought it new. I also shoot a .250 Savage and have a couple rifles chambered in .257 Roberts.
They're only obsolete if you aren't a handloader.


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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by CRS
Originally Posted by jorgeI
303 British
[Linked Image]

I also enjoy hunting with the 405 WCF, 348 Winchester, 32 Win Special and the 300 Savage


No belts or W's? grin


They ain't obsolete... smile


Just poking a little fun. Did not know you owned anything else. smile


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Love the oldies! In fact, I've gone more and more retro as I descend into "Geezerness". Presently, I'm hunting with a 1921 vintage Savage 99 in 300 Savage for hogs. No scope.


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Love the oldies! In fact, I've gone more and more retro as I descend into "Geezerness". Presently, I'm hunting with a 1921 vintage Savage 99 in 300 Savage for hogs. No scope.


Yup. Just enjoy hauling my old wore out stuff to the field. If I can't kill it with whatever I'm toting, I suppose it just don't need killing.


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Have their round haunches gored."

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Currently using the 356 win, custom top eject with lyman peep sight. Just took a nice buck with the 200gr PP factory ammo, no bullet recovered, but obviously expanded well. Also love the 358 win, 348 win and the 375 win. Rarely use anything but a winchester lever.

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25-20. It covers a lot of ground as a "meat in the pot" type of round.

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My current favourite real obsolete cartridge is the 9x57MM Mauser. .358 Winchester ballistics about 50 years before the .358 was invented. I have a svelte little German "guild gun" '98 sporter in that chambering. Sweet!

I just sold another fine gun, a hundred year old Sauer drilling in 16ga.x16ga. ( 65mm chambers - 2.5" ) over 8x57JR ( .318" dia) That one qualifies as twice as obsolete.

Unlike some others who have posted here, I just can't think of the 7x57 as obsolete, or the .303 British, or 7x64 Brenneke either. They are all used widely throughout the world, perhaps not in the USA though.


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Favorite obsolete cartridge? Always has been and always will be the 300 Savage. It is what I started hunting deer with many, many years ago and I carried one on opening morning here in Minnesota this year.

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222 Rem Mag and 358 Win.

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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Love the oldies! In fact, I've gone more and more retro as I descend into "Geezerness". Presently, I'm hunting with a 1921 vintage Savage 99 in 300 Savage for hogs. No scope.


pretty cool cool


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Originally Posted by RevMike
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
7x57


Qualifies because it's seasonal?


Yup! I know Federal brand is relatively easy to find at my LGS but I prefer Winchester and that stuff is practically Unobtainium. mad I haven't seen any in any of my local LGS in I don't know how many years. I did buy up every bit I could find back in the late 1990's and a decent supply of Winchester and Remington brass so I'm reasonably good to go but supplies only last so long if you're shooting a lot. Right now I'm looking for a load for my upcoming elk hunt. Trying the Barnes 140 gr. TSX, Nosler Accubond Long Range 150 gr. and probably the 140 to 150 gr. Partition. Might even give the Speer 160 gr. Grand Slam a try but shots can be a bit way out yonder when I hunt. I've had shots to 350 yards so may have to seek somewhat shorter ranged shots this year depending on what velocity I'm getting from which bullet.
I have three rifles in 7x57. The ranch I hunt does not allow single shot rifles so the Ruger #1 stays home. mad The Winchester M70 FWT give good speed and accuracy but it's the custom Mauser that I really want to go with. The problem with it is it shows high pressure problems very quickly. Did a short test for spits and grins a while back. Made up a load with the 175 gr. Hornady round nose to duplicate the original 1893 load and shot them in all three rifles. The Ruger and M70 were quite close to the original loads and were very accurate. The Mauser on the other hand shot the very same load over 100 FPS faster. Cartridges from the first two rifles had the typical slight bulge from standard somewhat sloppy factory chambers. The Mauser's fired cases do not show any sign of being fired unless you look at the primer. Accuracy was superb with that load running .50" for five shots. Well, I still have almst a month to find something it likes that I too will like. Guess that half the fun and frustration. whistle
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30 Remington.....


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Another vote for the 8mm Remington magnum. Whatever I have shot with it goes down including zebra,wildebeest.oryx,kudu and water buck.It is a sure killer on the NA game I have shot with it. The only drawbacks are the recoil,sharp and fast. And the scarcity of factory ammo. If you have one,hand load for it as the factory loads can be easily be beaten. Also I have 6mm Remington ,.257 Roberts, and a 7x57 Mauser. I guess I like odd cartridges. Porsche 73


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